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Is Bhagti Inherited? (NOT INCLUDING THE MAHAPURUKHS)

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4 hours ago, sikhni777 said:

I was reading it in the Bhai Bala dhi sakhi. 

 

Bhagat Jis mum was the inspiration behind his jaap. We are always with someone who will guide us and take us into bhagti deeper. Our lives are a continuation from the last ones. 

His father was not totally bhagti less. His father performed a lot of tapasya in order to get the boon of not getting killed in the various ways which he requested for when Bhrama appeared to him. However Akankaar took the fruits of his bhagti away. 

 

There's no mention of Bhagat Ji's mother being the reason he wanted to do Jaap in Dasam Granth Bani, it only states that his teacher was the one who taught him, im 100% certain if this detail was important Guru Sahib would have put it down in his bani, if Bhagati is inherited as you say then Guru Sahib's children (every last one of them) wouldn't have walked away from Sikhi, even Gurbani criticises them, as the Sakhi from Bhai Sahib's book points out its alot more complex than simply spiritual states.

 

On a personal note I have noted that I was in the presence of an extremely highly spiritual person (I tend to call him a Mahapurkh but honestly I have no idea what his state was, only he would know), He was amritdhari, really high jaap doing person, he was even blessed with Ridhi Sidhis but his children strayed from the path of Sikhi, one of his sons cut his kesh and ate meat as well. So that Thesis of yours while it holds some merit isn't totally accurate.

Edited by Thanatos
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On 07/10/2016 at 8:25 AM, sikhni777 said:

Guru Nanak Dev jis parents performed a lot of bhagti in their past life for a pious son. That is why Guru Nanak Dev ji was born to them. Bibi Nanki was with Guru Nanak Dev Ji in many past lives as well. 

Our past bhagti and the reason for which we perform that bhagti will greatly influence the results which we get - no matter what gender you are. 

Bhagti cannot be inherited, however we are born to people who have similar avasta to ours. So we have been with our families for quite some time even before this janam. Slowly we changed as families to turn to Gurmat or away from it. Even one person who turns to Gurmat will save the whole family. This is because slowly - the mental attitude of all will start to change and turn to Gurmat. However this will happen over a repeated number of births - it is a slow process. ape beej ape hi kao

"Bhagti cannot be inherited, however we are born to people who have similar avasta to ours."

This doesn't make sense as you on the other hand are saying it is also. 

I don't think bhagti is inherited. I believe everybody comes with their own karam into the world.  I also believe that bhagti can be increased or begun in this life if it's not been brought over by last life's karam.  But I don't think bhagti is always inherited as the examples given by Thanatos Paji.  I also know families where the siblings are very spiritual and the parents are not. There's one family I know of, all the sisters but one are on different paths. Only one is Amritdhari and the others are practising different faiths, not even the one they were born from of their parents.  I believe that everybody is on their own spiritual journey due to their karam. 

 

 

 

 

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Guru Nanak Dev Ji was born into a family who made fun of him, excluding his sister. 

 

So no, Bhagti is not inherited. Everything is Hukam and karam and in Kalyug, we reap what we sow ourselves. 

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8 hours ago, Thanatos said:

one of his sons cut his kesh and ate meat as well.

Bhai Rama Ji is one example of who cut his kesh and had alcohol and other vices. He was totally ignorant of Guru Ji's wisdom. This was because of one his bad karams. However when Guru Ji delivered him, then he started bhagti and kept kesh and became the provider of inspiration to millions of youth. He had been a Sikh of none other than Guru Gobind Singh Ji in the past. 

This is why we are told not to judge others.- Karmi apo apno ke nerhe ke dhoor. It is because of our actions that we are near or far to Waheguru. When he will look at us with kirpa dhristi, then we will truly be followers of the path with all our doubts being cast out and we will understand the understandable. 

Edited by sikhni777

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Except for Mahapurukhs, who can give a bit of their earned Naam Dhan to anybody whom they wish, it is their mauj.

For the rest of the beings, no body can do anything. Up to some extent it can give you some "gyan", but the bhakti for which brother Jacfsing2 asks for, it is about each individual´s kamaee in past births.

Our relation with Wahiguru is made on the basis of Bhakti, and each and every action of it is entered in our account by His grace.

We are souls, we have to evolve spiritually in order to become stainless and pure, and thus by His Grace, any little effort of ours in terms of bhakti is rewarded by Him multiplied, and as such, His daat never goes in waste, then naturally in our next births we continue from the point where we stopped in our previous births, cause He wants us to see us back as soon as possible.

That is why although we are humans alike, spiritually we are all at different levels, that is why so many of us disagree on so many points. The thing is then not to loose our balance, by letting the mind fill us with the poison of agyanta and vikaars.

Each person has a different level of consciousness.

That is why, even if we disagree with someone, we should not become angry nor try to throw our opinions on others, not because, they do not want to accept willingly, but, because they are not prepared to understand those views yet.

It is like talking about algebra or science, to a child(not physically of course, but at consciouss level) of a couple of years for example.

So going back, to the question of Bhakti as per the title of the O.P in this thread, yes, bhakti can be carried where we left in our past births.

And we have a practical  and a clear example on this topic, in another thread, where a sister is asking, if she has married a saint...

For me it is quite clear, he is carrying on with zeal and sincerity, his practice of bhakti, thus he is showered more and more Daya Meher by Wahiguru, in order to acelerate his progress and return back Home at His Lotus feet.

Sat Sree Akal.

 

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On 08/10/2016 at 3:48 PM, Lionesswoman said:

Guru Nanak Dev Ji was born into a family who made fun of him, excluding his sister. 

 

So no, Bhagti is not inherited. Everything is Hukam and karam and in Kalyug, we reap what we sow ourselves. 

as I had said before I have never read that Mata Tripta ji ever treated her children badly ...so I don't know where you you got that immpression, it is true however Guru ji's pita ji Swore, ridiculed and beat him.

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On 08/10/2016 at 9:24 AM, sikhni777 said:

If his father would not have tested him, and left him alone.....would Bhagat Ji have attained the greatness with which we now know him. 

This is the khel of Waheguru.

Tudh aap vochoreya aap milaya.

If his father had not been possessed by ahankaar... we would not have this story from which we can learn and understand the greatness of Bhagat Ji. 

Also these tests were important in order to determine the devotion on bhagat ji. His father while having performed tapasya asked for life immortal on earth. This means that despite having performed tapasya his soul was not totally satisfied with life on this earth. He loved it too much and loved his raaj too much and wanted to live forever. The boon was granted to him, however he abused it by giving a hard time to God's bhagat. He was a sant ka dhokhi in other words and reaped the punishment which is given to sant ka dhokhi.

According to Dasam Granth Bani Bhagat Ji's arrival was always imminent, He was always going to be attached to naam, he would always have risen as that was his destiny, his father had no influence in it whatsoever. 

 

On 08/10/2016 at 9:48 PM, sikhni777 said:

Bhai Rama Ji is one example of who cut his kesh and had alcohol and other vices. He was totally ignorant of Guru Ji's wisdom. This was because of one his bad karams. However when Guru Ji delivered him, then he started bhagti and kept kesh and became the provider of inspiration to millions of youth. He had been a Sikh of none other than Guru Gobind Singh Ji in the past. 

This is why we are told not to judge others.- Karmi apo apno ke nerhe ke dhoor. It is because of our actions that we are near or far to Waheguru. When he will look at us with kirpa dhristi, then we will truly be followers of the path with all our doubts being cast out and we will understand the understandable. 

Sis, I've not judged anyone. I was making a stark comparison about how a Mahapurkh I knew had sons who strayed from the path, they were clearly more fortunate than I to be born into a household where someone immersed in Sikhi resided, however you can't claim their avasta is the same as their fathers when they themselves were so far from Rehit. Same goes with Guru Nanak Dev Ji Maharajs sons. Gurbani even states they turned their back on their father, how does that correlate to having the same Avasta as Akaal Purkh himself.

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On 8 October 2016 at 3:48 PM, Lionesswoman said:

Guru Nanak Dev Ji was born into a family who made fun of him, excluding his sister. 

 

So no, Bhagti is not inherited. Everything is Hukam and karam and in Kalyug, we reap what we sow ourselves. 

 

7 hours ago, jkvlondon said:

as I had said before I have never read that Mata Tripta ji ever treated her children badly ...so I don't know where you you got that immpression, it is true however Guru ji's pita ji Swore, ridiculed and beat him.

Hi okay maybe she didn't. But he was still ridiculed by his father- so Bhagti isn't inherited. 

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1 hour ago, Lionesswoman said:

 

Hi okay maybe she didn't. But he was still ridiculed by his father- so Bhagti isn't inherited. 

Mata ji had to be a dharmic jeevanwali otherwise she couldn't have given birth to Bebe Nanaki , such a soul that could stir Akal Purakh to send Guru ji to be her brother , and could recognise his divinity from the start.

 

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On 08/10/2016 at 1:28 PM, Thanatos said:

There's no mention of Bhagat Ji's mother being the reason he wanted to do Jaap in Dasam Granth Bani, it only states that his teacher was the one who taught him, im 100% certain if this detail was important Guru Sahib would have put it down in his bani,

Yes thanks for pointing that out. Actually there are two bhagats whose names can be confused. Dhruv and dhru prehladh. 

The verses below refer to Dhruv whose mother was the primary source of his inspiration. His fathers name was Uttanaapada and not Harnakhash. 

 

vaara Bhai Gurdaas JI

VAAR 10 Pauri 1

ਧ੍ਰੂ ਹਸਦਾ ਘਰਿ ਆਇਆ ਕਰਿ ਪਿਆਰੁ ਪਿਉ ਕੁਛੜਿ ਲੀਤਾ।

Dhr Hasadaa Ghari Aaiaa Kari Piaaru Piu Kouchharhi Leetaa.

ध्र हसदा घरि आइआ करि पिआरु पिउ कुछड़ि लीता ।

Boy Dhru came smiling to his house (palace) and his father full of love put him into his lap.

1 ਵਾਰਾਂ ਭਾਈ ਗੁਰਦਾਸ : ਵਾਰ ੧੦ ਪਉੜੀ ੧ ਪੰ. ੧

ਬਾਹਹੁ ਪਕੜਿ ਉਠਾਲਿਆ ਮਨ ਵਿਚਿ ਰੋਸੁ ਮਤ੍ਰੇਈ ਕੀਤਾ।

Baaharu Pakarhi Outdaaliaa Man Vichi Rosu Matrayee Keetaa.

बाहरु पकड़ि उठालिआ मन विचि रोसु मत्रेई कीता ।

Seeing this, the stepmother got angry and catching hold of his arm pushed him out of the lap of the father (the king).

2 ਵਾਰਾਂ ਭਾਈ ਗੁਰਦਾਸ : ਵਾਰ ੧੦ ਪਉੜੀ ੧ ਪੰ. ੨

ਡੁਡਹੁਲਿਕਾ ਮਾਂ ਪੁਛੈ ਤੂੰ ਸਾਵਾਣੀ ਹੈ ਕਿ ਸੁਰੀਤਾ?

Dudahulikaa Maan Pouchhai Toon Saavaanee Hai Ki Sureetaa.

डुडहुलिका मां पुछै तूं सावाणी है कि सुरीता ।

Tearful with fear he asked his mother whether she was a queen or a maidservant?

3 ਵਾਰਾਂ ਭਾਈ ਗੁਰਦਾਸ : ਵਾਰ ੧੦ ਪਉੜੀ ੧ ਪੰ. ੩

ਸਾਵਾਣੀ ਹਾਂ ਜਨਮ ਦੀ ਨਾਮੁ ਨ ਭਗਤੀ ਕਰਮਿ ਦ੍ਰਿੜ੍ਹੀਤਾ।

Saavaanee Haan Janam Dee Naamu N Bhagatee Karami Drirhheetaa.

सावाणी हां जनम दी नामु न भगती करमि द्रिड़्हीता ।

O son! (said she) I was born queen but I did not remember God and did not undertake acts of devotion (and this is the reason of yours and mine plight).

4 ਵਾਰਾਂ ਭਾਈ ਗੁਰਦਾਸ : ਵਾਰ ੧੦ ਪਉੜੀ ੧ ਪੰ. ੪

ਕਿਸੁ ਉਦਮ ਤੇ ਰਾਜੁ ਮਿਲੈ ਸਤ੍ਰੂ ਤੇ ਸਭ ਹੋਵਨਿ ਮੀਤਾ?।

Kisu Udam Tay Raaju Mili Satr Tay Sabhi Hovani Meetaa.

किसु उदम ते राजु मिलि सत्र ते सभि होवनि मीता ।

With that effort can the kingdom be had (asked Dhru) and how can enemies turn friends?

5 ਵਾਰਾਂ ਭਾਈ ਗੁਰਦਾਸ : ਵਾਰ ੧੦ ਪਉੜੀ ੧ ਪੰ. ੫

ਪਰਮੇਸਰੁ ਆਰਾਧੀਐ ਜਿਦੂ ਹੋਈਐ ਪਤਿਤ ਪੁਨੀਤਾ।

Paramaysaru Aaraadheeai Jidoo Hoeeai Patit Pouneetaa.

परमेसरु आराधीऐ जिदू होईऐ पतित पुनीता ।

The Lord should be worshipped and thus the sinners also become sacred ones (said the mother).

6 ਵਾਰਾਂ ਭਾਈ ਗੁਰਦਾਸ : ਵਾਰ ੧੦ ਪਉੜੀ ੧ ਪੰ. ੬

ਬਾਹਰਿ ਚਲਿਆ ਕਰਣਿ ਤਪੁ ਮਨ ਬੈਰਾਗੀ ਹੋਇ ਅਤੀਤਾ।

Baahari Chaliaa Karani Tapu Man Bairaagee Hoi Ateetaa.

बाहरि चलिआ करणि तपु मन बैरागी होइ अतीता ।

Listening to this and getting totally detached in his mind Dhru went out (to the jungle) to undertake rigorous discipline.

7 ਵਾਰਾਂ ਭਾਈ ਗੁਰਦਾਸ : ਵਾਰ ੧੦ ਪਉੜੀ ੧ ਪੰ. ੭

The above show clearly the main reason why Dhruv Bhagat Ji set out to do Naam jap. What follows shows who taught him the technique of naam jap.

 

ਨਾਰਦ ਮੁਨਿ ਉਪਦੇਸਿਆ ਨਾਮ ਨਿਧਾਨੁ ਅਮਿਓ ਰਸੁ ਪੀਤਾ।

Naarad Mouni Oupadaysiaa Naau Nidhaanu Amiao Rasu Peetaa.

नारद मुनि उपदेसिआ नाउ निधानु अमिओ रसु पीता ।

On the way, sage Narad taught him the technique of devotion and Dhru quaffed the nectar from the ocean of the Name of the Lord.

8 ਵਾਰਾਂ ਭਾਈ ਗੁਰਦਾਸ : ਵਾਰ ੧੦ ਪਉੜੀ ੧ ਪੰ. ੮


 

Edited by sikhni777

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Bhagati isn't inherited, although it does "attract" if that makes sense, IF that's what is written. As others have noted earlier, some brilliantly spiritual people are often surrounded by... let's call them trying people and circumstances, lol. So what happened to the inheritance of spirituality in those cases? It's all explained in Jap Ji Sahib.

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