The Christian menace to Sikhi in Canada

[puzzled 2,872]

If gurdware granthis started saying they will take evil spirits out and perform exorisms and free people from black magic spells  then gurdware would have lines of people waiting outside. 

[Ranjeet01 1,884]

18 minutes ago, dallysingh101 said:

I posted something earlier which I feel is pertinent with an attachment, so it's awaiting clearing.

But I do feel what certain people do (albeit subconsciously) is to downplay and disregard serious caste issues in our panth, probably out of hardcore cognitive dissonance. It's like some english people in the UK who get upset at the mere mention of there being systemic racism going on in the country, and then go into overdrive to deny it (or play it down when this isn't possible.)

We should all know (by now) that ignoring issues only makes them grow and spread and makes problems even worse (like with grooming). It's on all of us to confront these things head on, and not take the easy route of denial. 

Certain people need to take more pride in the panth and have better expectations of it than being some backwards cesspit of inequality. Sikhi was sent here to guide humanity, if we don't even strive for its ideals (which have never been represented as easy even by Gurus and others like Bhai Gurdas), how are we surprised that people convert out of economic desperation or as an attempt to receive more humane treatment by the society around them? Sure some of it is opportunism, but to ignore the rampant, long term appalling treatment  of certain members of our panth by others within, and how this will naturally cause effects is a travesty of the highest order. And it's not something really complicated to grasp either. 

Not everything our families tell us is good. 

No one downplaying caste but it is not the only factor.

 

[puzzled 2,872]

My thias daughter had acne on her face and her mum said that someone did nazzar/evil eye  on her  that's why she got acne. 

[Guest Jigsaw_puzzled_singh]

22 minutes ago, Ranjeet01 said:

I think there is this big thing about caste oppression but I think it is something else.

It is pure opportunism .

Of course it's something else Ranjeet. The discussion taking place here among a couple of posters about caste is like someone that's never been to Portugal delivering a lecture about The Hills and Lakes of Portugal. The guy delivering the lecture needs to visit Portugal and the people talking about caste here need to get out there into the pends and cities of Doaba and see what's happening on the ground. There are Jatts, Tarkhans, Khatris, Churus and Chamars all becoming Christian (btw many of them still retain their kes and turban after conversion because the Christians preach the Nazerite gospel to them) and yet, even after conversion, each of those groups still only marry into their own groups etc. The grouping system (or caste - whatever you want to call it) remains intact even after they become Christian.  None of this has anything (hardly) to do with caste. The few here still talking about it are embarrassing themselves with their lack of knowledge of what's happening on the ground.  We all knew and accepted that the one trick pony Dallysingh101 was always going to take the discussion in that direction but the rest of the posters should have been intelligent enough not to fall in his trap.

I started this thread a long time ago hoping it would provoke some serious intelligent thinking and, if you look back at the first couple of pages, I've pointed out a few times that the Christians are finding it easy in Punjab because we, the Punjabis, are just too unintelligent to figure simple things out. Nothing to do with caste...….especially as the new mass of converts in Punjab are mostly high ranking Jatts and Khatris. It has everything to do with education and intelligence. When you have a society in which 99.9% of the decent schools in the state are Christian schools, it paints a picture in simple minds that being a Christian is associated with higher intelligence. And this brings us to the wider subject of intelligence itself :

The late great comedian once insulted his live show audience by calling them brainless dogs. They were laughing at his jokes and they found them really funny but Bill Hicks was a man that demanded more than that. He knew they were genuinely laughing because they genuinely thought the jokes funny but he also knew that they were not fully understanding the long preamble that was setting up the jokes and to Bill, that was more important than the punchline itself. So, he likened them to dogs watching a magician perform a magic card trick. The intelligent mind goes to a magic trick show knowing that the whole point is to be deceived. He knows he's about to be duped and simply finds it entertaining watching the magician dupe him. To the brainless dog however, the 7 of spades and the jack of hearts are both nothing but images on a piece of card. They watch the trick and they like it but they are not being duped because they don't even have the basic understanding to know that there is deceit and dupeness happening. Same with the masses in Punjab. They are not being deceived because they don't have the mental faculty to understand deceit. Like Bill Hick's brainless audience and the Dog watching the magic trick show they are simply appreciating and then swallowing everything that is thrown at them. To them, it's a simple question of maths that adds up. To them, the equation that makes sense is this:  Best schools are Christian + Rich western world is Christian + Nazerite gospels preach not cutting hair = Successful life. No dupeness going on. It's just that Bill Hicks's proverbial 'brainless dogs' reside in the state of Punjab.

[Ranjeet01 1,884]

14 minutes ago, puzzled said:

My thias daughter had acne on her face and her mum said that someone did nazzar/evil eye  on her  that's why she got acne. 

People are regressing back to superstitions. 

[KSVIRK 4]

Caste prejudices should be eradicated yet it is rampant in our society. I think one factor is brahmanism influence. Yes,people were more caste prejudiced in the past. It seems people havent changed much. On Google,I found out there was a Granthi from an SC caste who was treated like scat by the Sangat in his Gurdwara Sahib.. thats why he converted.

[MisterrSingh 3,939]

1 hour ago, Ranjeet01 said:

I think there is this big thing about caste oppression but I think it is something else.

It is pure opportunism .

If it's not caste that's used as a marker to discriminate, it's something else, such as how many acres zameen someone owns, or their skin tone, or the size of their 4x4. It's just never ending over there.

[Ranjeet01 1,884]

3 minutes ago, MisterrSingh said:

If it's not caste that's used as a marker to discriminate, it's something else, such as how many acres zameen someone owns, or their skin tone, or the size of their 4x4. It's just never ending over there.

There is an underlying problem there. It affects people along the social spectrum. 

[Ranjeet01 1,884]

7 minutes ago, KSVIRK said:

Caste prejudices should be eradicated yet it is rampant in our society. I think one factor is brahmanism influence. Yes,people were more caste prejudiced in the past. It seems people havent changed much. On Google,I found out there was a Granthi from an SC caste who was treated like scat by the Sangat in his Gurdwara Sahib.. thats why he converted.

I think sometimes even Brahmans are made as a bogeyman. 

[puzzled 2,872]

10 minutes ago, Ranjeet01 said:

People are regressing back to superstitions. 

People always been superstitious there. Main religion in india is superstitions, even caste system is superstitious. Superstitions govern society there,  not religion. People still offer food and drinks to their ancestors, if something goes wrong they think it's because their ancestor isn't happy. My own family do this.  People have jatheras there   where people with the same surname offer their common ancestors food and drink.  In my mums pind we have a jathera for tarkhan ramgharias  and throngs of them come every year ritulistically to worship their ancestors.  People are completely lost in superstitions.   During winter people wrap the tombs of their ancestors with blankets!  No joke    my family do all this stuff. 

My dad was making scrambled eggs in our kitchen in the pind and my thias wife started sneezing and she said shes sneezing because our ancestor isn't happy that my dads making scrambled eggs in the kitchen.  A lot of the rules they follow is related to what will anger the ancestor and the jaggah. 

In my nanke pind I slept in the same room as my mama( who was completely drunk out of his mind)  and it was thundering outside     and the nxt morning my mami said that it's bad luck to sleep with your mama when its thundering and lightening outside, and she said she was too scared to come into the room and tell me to move to another room.

Iv lived with these people in India     they are crazy   everyone is mad there    their beliefs are superstitions 

That's why these deras, babas and churches are so popular. 

[MisterrSingh 3,939]

50 minutes ago, Ranjeet01 said:

There is an underlying problem there. It affects people along the social spectrum. 

Without wishing to go wildly off topic, casteism and intra-religious tensions and discrimination aren't limited to Sikhs. It's why an Arab Muslim would most likely hit the roof if his child got involved with a Muslim from Africa or in some cases even one from the Indian subcontinent.  That's not a justification for its perpetuation, or an attempt to downplay its existence, in our community, but most people in the West are just very, very tired of it by now. I don't think it's the same back in the Mother Land, lol. Their appetite for caste-based social drama remains undiminished as ever!

[Ranjeet01 1,884]

17 minutes ago, MisterrSingh said:

Without wishing to go wildly off topic, casteism and intra-religious tensions and discrimination aren't limited to Sikhs. It's why an Arab Muslim would most likely hit the roof if his child got involved with a Muslim from Africa or in some cases even one from the Indian subcontinent.  That's not a justification for its perpetuation, or an attempt to downplay its existence, in our community, but most people in the West are just very, very tired of it by now. I don't think it's the same back in the Mother Land, lol. Their appetite for caste-based social drama remains undiminished as ever!

Tribalism is tribalism and there is always a dominance hierarchy. 

I think people in India get a chemical rush, they live off the drama.

People in the west are far more individualistic than collectivist. 

[dallysingh101 1,832]

1 hour ago, Ranjeet01 said:

I think sometimes even Brahmans are made as a bogeyman. 

I agree. I think they've long been eradicated as any potent force in the Panjab. 

[dallysingh101 1,832]

34 minutes ago, MisterrSingh said:

Without wishing to go wildly off topic, casteism and intra-religious tensions and discrimination aren't limited to Sikhs. It's why an Arab Muslim would most likely hit the roof if his child got involved with a Muslim from Africa or in some cases even one from the Indian subcontinent.  That's not a justification for its perpetuation, or an attempt to downplay its existence, in our community, but most people in the West are just very, very tired of it by now. I don't think it's the same back in the Mother Land, lol. Their appetite for caste-based social drama remains undiminished as ever!

I think there are still plenty of people in the west who are as obsessed with it like the back home fudhus. It's just that wider cultural pressure/influence and ground realities suppress their illusions of grandeur somewhat and prevent from expressing their backwardness with the full vigor that would have been demonstrated otherwise - that we can all see in the pends backhome. 

[dallysingh101 1,832]

20 minutes ago, Ranjeet01 said:

Tribalism is tribalism and there is always a dominance hierarchy. 

 

When the 'dominant' ones have been in the grip of a long term suicide epidemic - I'd say it has reached delusional status.