CHAUR SAHIB SEWA

[Son of Guru Gobind Singh Ji]

Mr Singh, it's a well known fact and has been discussed here before. Gangu was hired by Guru Tegh Bahadar Sahib Ji when Kashmiri Pandits came to seek Guru Sahib's help and he was later dismissed by Guru Gobind Singh Ji after the trouble was over for them. If this was not the case, why else wouldn't he be still working for Guru Sahib as a langree when Guru Sahib was at Anandpur Sahib?

If Gangu could cook for Guru Ji then why wouldn't Guru Sahib eat food from hands of Bh. Dyal Daas Ji (sakhi from Panth Parkash)?

[Khalsa4ever]

vwihgurU jI kw Kwlsw!

vwihgurU jI kI &iqh!!

I'm saying my views, but I think some of us have missed the difference in what the mariayda said:

it said a sikh is someone who BELIEVES in the four points... a Sikh is simply someone who believes that the Sikh path is the right one... and that is why there is a difference between a Sikh (student - ie: still learning) and a Khalsa (ie: pure -- follows sikhi through and through).

vwihgurU jI kw Kwlsw!

vwihgurU jI kI &iqh!!

[V]

Mr Singh, it's a well known fact and has been discussed here before. Gangu was hired by Guru Tegh Bahadar Sahib Ji when Kashmiri Pandits came to seek Guru Sahib's help and he was later dismissed by Guru Gobind Singh Ji after the trouble was over for them. If this was not the case, why else wouldn't he be still working for Guru Sahib as a langree when Guru Sahib was at Anandpur Sahib?

If Gangu could cook for Guru Ji then why wouldn't Guru Sahib eat food from hands of Bh. Dyal Daas Ji (sakhi from Panth Parkash)?

Thanks for the excellent explaination. However, Because Sikhi rejects castism, and says everyone is to sit together in pangat, would maharaj really hire a Bahman for Bahmans, I mean When Rajputs asked MAharja if they could take Amrit themselves (i.e without any low caste) they were frankly told to leave, as Guru doesn't care abut caste or anything why would he hire a cook especially for bahmans then :wub: :T:

cause then he would be contradicting his teachings - which is somethin

g he never did. :T:

I meann a way it's like- if a bunch of Americans came to the Gudwara and said - we don't want to eat from you're asian hand, would the Gurdwara be right in employing an American (non SIkh) to do Seva of Langar :T:

Just seems dodgy :D

Also, if you have the time, can you please elaborate on the sakhi of Guru Maharaj ji rejecting the food prepared by BHai Dyal Daas?

thanks

it said a sikh is someone who BELIEVES in the four points... a Sikh is simply someone who believes that the Sikh path is the right one... and that is why there is a difference between a Sikh (student - ie: still learning) and a Khalsa (ie: pure -- follows sikhi through and through).

Veer ji

pRQm rihq Xih jwn KMfy kI pwhul Cky ] soeI isMG pRDwn Avr n pwhul jo ley ]

prathham rehith yeh

i jaan kha(n)ddae kee paahul shhakae ||asoee si(n)gh pradhhaan avar n paahul jo leae ||

To drink the Ambrosial Nectar of the Khanda (Amrit) is the primary instruction for the Sikh. He who abandons all other initiations is truly a great Sikh.

Rehatnama Bhai Desa Singh

http://www.sikhitothemax.com/Rehat.asp?ID=92

and it's common known fact-

Rehit BIna nai Sikh kahavai

Although i'm the last one who should go aroundn saying this this :doh:

bhull chukk maaf

Waheguroo Jee Ka Khalsa!

Waheguroo Jee Kee Fateh!!

[Guest JSS]

don't some rehitnamaas advocate kirpan da amrit....and i totally disagree with that...so we should be careful when saying .."oh just look at the rehitname"

cuz if you accept one...then you have to accept the others...and if you don't well then we're back to using our own matt..which to SOME people is a bad thing... :wub:

[V]

don't some rehitnamaas advocate kirpan da amrit....and i totally disagree with that...so we should be careful when saying .."oh just look at the rehitname"

cuz if you accept one...then you have to accept the others...and if you don't well then we're back to using our own matt..which to SOME people is a bad thing... :D

not really, cause thn if we disregard all Rehitname

we lose our whole code of conduct

hence it's vital to do a litmus test

by comparing to Gurbani

Sor nar mun jan khojde so Amrit Gur te paya

if it goes inline with Gurbani thne it's accepted

if not - then it's not regarded

Kirpan da amrit symbolizes discrimination - against Gurbani so there :wub:

bhull chukk maaf

Waheguroo Jee Ka Khalsa!

Waheguroo Jee Kee Fateh!!

[akjforever]

If you think about it, this idea of Amritdhari Singhs/Singhneea doing seva makes sense. But if you look at many Gurdwaras esp in the US, the heads are all monay or non-Amritdharees. The heads make all the rules/decisions. So to try to tell these people that they can't do seva, it would not work. Even langer is made by monas. I can say for that my local Gurdwara, monas pretty much do most of the seva.

Then what is one to do?

Waheguroo Jee Ka Khalsa!

Waheguroo Jee Kee Fateh!!

[Guest JSS]

Mr. Singh

you're telling me that excluding people from doing seva...preventing people to build that relationship with guru ji and develop that yearning for guruji's amrit is accepted in GURBANI???

i agree that sevadaars should be amritdhari...but what about that mona kid who's never been to a gurdwara...walks in first time and falls in love with guru ji...but has no clue what amrit is....and he just sees people doing seva and figures this seva is what makes guru ji happy...are you gonna kick hiim out of the kitchen?..are you going to pry him away from guru ji??????

i would hope not....for if kicking them out of the kitchen, prying them away from babaji's tabia was the right conduct...i know A LOT of amritdhari gursikhs who would probably be monay today had they received that "right" treatment....

what i'm trying to get at is...not everything is black and white...each person is an individual case...you cannot simply look at a person without hair and say..oh he is nigura and therefore not worthy of doing seva or whatnot....i know our guru ji's would not do that sort of thing....read Guru nanak chamatkar or Guru kalgidhar Chamatkar by Bhai vir singh ji to get a better idea of what our gurus were like......

and about testing rehitnammas agains gurbani is pointless...cuz everyone has a slightly different interpretation of gurbani...even maahaan gurmukhs couldnt' even agree on all aspects of gurbani..that is cuz gurbani contains (i believe) a personal message for each person that reads it...so everyone will test rehitnammas in a different way and follow different rehitnammas...

and if that happens...you or i cannot tell someone which rehitnamma t

o follow....this is just my thoughts on the whole rehitnamma issue....

[V]

Mr. Singh

you're telling me that excluding people from doing seva...preventing people to build that relationship with guru ji and develop that yearning for guruji's amrit is accepted in GURBANI???

Uhm nowhere in the rehitname does it say tha, but the rehit maryada is saying that

What i said was only a way to see whether ther the rehitname where reliable or not

i.e the rehitnama of only Amritdharis are SIKHS,

im not saying anything else, I'm simply saying tha's a way to test the rehitname

i agree that sevadaars should be amritdhari...but what about that mona kid who's never been to a gurdwara...walks in first time and falls in love with guru ji...but has no clue what amrit is....and he just sees people doing seva and figures this seva is what makes guru ji happy...are you gonna kick hiim out of the kitchen?..are you going to pry him away from guru ji??????

not the same case, however theres a Sakhi of a person who does Chaur Sahib seva of Guru Gobind SIngh ji. One day Maharaj ji says u can't do it, cause he had plucked out a white hair from his dhari, this shows the massive importance

of rehit and being Amritdhari

baki i'm not sayign anything abut the seva thing

All i quoted was regarding who is a SIKH

again a lot of rehitname are direct quotes from Guru SAhib in his dialogue etc.

i would hope not....for if kicking them out of the kitchen, prying them away from babaji's tabia was the right conduct...i know A LOT of amritdhari gursikhs who would probably be monay today had they received that "right" treatment....

kicking out aint the solution...

what i'm trying to get at is...not everything is black and white...each person is an individual case...you cannot simply look at a person without hair and say..oh he is nigura and therefore not worthy of doing seva or whatnot....i know our guru ji's would not do that sort of thing....read Guru nanak chamatkar or Guru kalgidhar Chamatkar by Bhai vir singh ji to get a better idea of what our gurus were like......

if tha was directed at me, then i think u've directed it to the wrong person as i never commented about the seva thing, it's the Akal Takht maryada tha has done an edict :wub:

and about testing rehitnammas agains gurbani is pointless...cuz everyone has a sl

ightly different interpretation of gurbani...even maahaan gurmukhs couldnt' even agree on all aspects of gurbani..that is cuz gurbani contains (i believe) a personal message for each person that reads it...so everyone will test rehitnammas in a different way and follow different rehitnammas...

and if that happens...you or i cannot tell someone which rehitnamma to follow....this is just my thoughts on the whole rehitnamma issue....

Some thing like being a Sikh or not are black and white - in daas' opinion :D

baki im not to preach about it as i wouldn't be considered as a real SIkh yet

bhull chukk maaf

Waheguroo Jee Ka Khalsa!

Waheguroo Jee Kee Fateh!!

[Son of Guru Gobind Singh Ji]

Thanks for the excellent explaination. However, Because Sikhi rejects castism, and says everyone is to sit together in pangat, would maharaj really hire a Bahman for Bahmans,

Mr. Singh, that's exactly true, Sikhi does reject castism but you have to remember that Sikhi doesn't degrade any other religion, infact Guru Sahib adviced people of other faiths to be firm and strong in their faith, and this is the reason why Guru Sahib let the Brahmins had their own cook, because Brahmins do not eat from hands of non-Brahmins.

Now people would ask that isn't keeping bebeik being like a Brahmin now? Well now, because to be a brahmin, you have to take birth in a brahmin family but however in Sikhi, anyone willing to keep the punj kakaari rehit can become Amritthari and keep sanjh of 'Roti Beti' with Sikhs (Gursikh ki roti beti Gursikh se).

The story of Bh. Dyaal Daas Ji is very simple, he was a shardalu of Guru Sahib but hadn't taken Khande Baate ki pahul and once he asked Guru Sahib to eat at his house. Guru Sahib clearly told him that he needs to take amrit first and then only would his seva be accepted. I heard this sakhi from Gyani Mall Singh Ji of Darbar Sahib and it also appears in the pracheen panth parkash of Bhai Ratan Singh Bhangu.

don't some rehitnamaas advocate kirpan da amrit....and i totally disagree with that...so we should be careful when saying .."oh just look at the rehitname"

cuz if you accept one...then you have to accept the others...and if you don't well then we're back to using our own matt..which to SOME people is a bad thing...

So JSS, what's the use of having rehit naame anyway if we can't accept any of them? perhaps it was a good thing according to you that most of the puratan hand written rehitnaame were destroyed by the Indian Government in 1984? Because if we had more rehitnaame we would have more controversies!!

Moreover, on what basis are you saying the above posted rehitnaama emphasizing Khande Baate ki phaul is wrong? It's been a while since I've read any book published just with rehitnaame in it so I can't recall if I have come across any about 'kirpan ka amrit' and since you say it has been mentioned in rehitnaame can you provide with references?

Mr. Singh

you're telling me that excluding people from doing seva...preventing people to build that relationship with guru ji and develop that yearning for guruji's amrit is accepted in GURBANI???

He didn't exactly say that, he only quoted panktees from Gurbani which talk about importance about amrit.

and about testing rehitnammas agains gurbani is pointless...cuz everyone has a slightly different interpretation of gurbani..

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The key word is 'slightly' so in other words, everyone still aknowledged the basic understanding.

vaaheguru ji a khalsa vaaheguru ji ki fateh

[Sher Khalsa]

u gotta follow akal takht maryada at a bare minimum. wat do u not understand.

u cant bend the rules to make urself happy or accomodate others.

maryada is maryada...

there shouldnt even be a debate