CHAUR SAHIB SEWA

[brampton DDT]

The shabad written by bhagut Namdev Ji is irrelevant in this situation. He was kicked out because he was a low social class. Im not saying low social class people shouldnt be doing chaur seva or listening to gurbani. Im saying that anyone that isnt amritdhari shouldnt be doing this seva. Anyone can go and do other seva, eg langar, or jorai, not just anyone can attend to guru maharaj.

WHy would you be turned off from Sikhi just because you cant do chaur seva??? There is more seva to do than just attending to Guru Ji!

Almost all of you agree that only amritdharis should be doing prachaar and kirtan. So if people are turned away from SIkhi because they cant do chaur seva, wouldnt they also be turned away if they cant do kirtan in sangat????

Im not discriminating against non-amritdhari people, Im just saying that we should have the utmost respect of Guru Ji, and who can be trusted with Guru Ji more than an amritdhari???

[atl singh]

brampton jee. im not really wrong. akj rehit forbids u too eat meat at all. so does ddt as far as im concerend. akal takth rehit states that u cant eat halal. im not tryin to like point fingers or anything. sorry if i offended anyone. im not sayin my self that you have to be pura sikh and im not gnna get mad if u do seva like that. but that because im not pura singh either. i still have to chak amrit which i will very soon. the one thing that im sure of and that it will bother me is that if a mona gets up on stage and does some kinda parchaar. tellin peopole whats right and wrong. that is messed up <_

[brampton DDT]

brampton jee. im not really wrong. akj rehit forbids u too eat meat at all. so does ddt as far as im concerend. akal takth rehit states that u cant eat halal. im not tryin to like point fingers or anything. sorry if i offended anyone. im not sayin my self that you have to be pura sikh and im not gnna get mad if u do seva like that. but that because im not pura singh either. i still have to chak amrit which i will very soon. the one thing that im sure of and that it will bother me is that if a mona gets up on stage and does some kinda parchaar. tellin peopole whats right and wrong. that is messed up :wub:

yes, u are right that akal takhat maryada says u cant eat halal and akj and ddt say that u cant eat any meat.

But this does not go against akal takhat, It is just stricter than akal takhat.

Akal Takhat does not say u must eat meat, thye say u may eat chatka, but u may also not eat it.

AKJ and DDT are just stricted in this respect and they say u cant even chatka.

They do no go against akal takhat in any way.

[Gupt daasan daas]

Waheguroo Jee Ka Khalsa!

Waheguroo Jee Kee Fateh!!

the maryada for doing chaur sahib de sewa is a hajoori in ure neck, an OPEN dhari, and u do panj ishanaan before u go do sewa

if u go take a dump u gotta do ishnaan before chaur sahib de sewa, with keshi ishnaan

ooh, and u gotta keep ure hair and have head covered

as for unfairness, y not let mona in panj pyarae too, right??

bhagat namdev je was thrwon out for no reason

they worshipped and obeyed god with all their heart, they were a brahm giani

a mona is different

anyways, mona can do different sewa like joora de sewa, etc.

meat is not allowed

bhagat fareed je says whoerver will consume meat, marijuana, and i cant remeber the other thing if there is one, will go t hell no matter wat pilgimarage they take

and this cant have a deeper meaning, as the pro meat thuks do

this clearly is a hukam from vaheguru je to not eat meat

akal takht is to be respected, but the jathedar right now is not to be repected

the last sarbat khalsa elected jathedar was bhai jasbir singh rode

the others have been badal and tohra, but bhai ranjit singh je was ill too

we need a sarbat khalsa again to make a jathedar

vedanti is badal controlled, and badals gov. contolled

bhula chuk amaf

Waheguroo Jee Ka Khalsa!

Waheguroo Jee Kee Fateh!!

[Balwinder Singh]

bhagat fareed je says whoerver will consume meat, marijuana, and i cant remeber the other thing if there is one, will go t hell no matter wat pilgimarage they take

Waheguroo Jee Ka Khalsa!

Waheguroo Jee Kee Fateh!!

Well I think this translated bani was from bhagat kabir ji not baba fareed ji.

Kabeer, those mortals who consume marijuana, fish and wine

kabeer bhaaNg maachhulee suraa paan jo jo paraanee khaaNhi.

- no matter what pilgrimages, fasts and rituals they follow, they will all go to hell. ||233||

tirath barat naym kee-ay tay sabhai rasaatal jaaNhi. ||233||

[Gupt daasan daas]

Waheguroo Jee Ka Khalsa!

Waheguroo Jee Kee Fateh!!

oo

my bad

ya, it was bhagat kabeer je

bhula chuka maf

Waheguroo Jee Ka Khalsa!

Waheguroo Jee Kee Fateh!!

[GurVir]

and lastly, I have a lot of respect for those 'mone' who still come to Guru Sahib's darbar and I hope that one day they do accept Guru Ji's way of life but when it comes to things like some mone challenging the Gurdwara Sahib commettes in court because they want to have their own amrit sanchaar (recent Fremont, CA. case) then it's obviously not goign to work out.

Fateh..

...Exactly mate!!! :e: ...now you wonder why are there so-called "rebel gurduaras" being introduced :T: ...obviously...these people which are refered as monais also want to be able to do seva for the Guru...they also want peace and harmony while being at the temple...how would you feel if you were doing seva and some people who consider themselves much more "holy" or "pure" were to come up and tell you to bug off and that your seva is not excepted by the guru...that sucks man...and yes iagree that we should follow that the hukum of the guru..anywayz...i'm sure while doing this seva they will slowly but eventually under

stand the proper way of doing the seva and respecting the guru...it takes time to learn man..you cant just simply STOP them all-together...

...like here in Australia...the "monais" are allowed to do seva like the washing seva and like seva's which does not need them to recite from the gurbani...

...i feel that these "monais" should also be given the chance for improvement into the religion...improvement into becoming a sikh...

...bhul chuk maaf...... :nihungsmile:

Gurfateh...

...ve muthejah, ve paarvah....nanak das kaho gurvah...

[Son of Guru Gobind Singh Ji]

GurVir singh ji, I don't really think this is the soul reason why we have 'rebel gurdwara sahibs'. There are actually two different Gurdwara Sahibs being run by two different 'Ravidaaseay' commettes in the small town of Fresno. As it's been mentioned here on this thread, there MANY other sevas which can be done at the Gurdwara Sahib. Moreover, is it ok to overlook Gurmat just because of sentiments of others? Traditionally this is how seva was done and if we get sad because we aren't allowed to do seva of certain kind, then it's only our fault because we really haven't understand where we belong and where we don't. If everyone understood their role then there wouldn't be any problem. You know that non-muslims cannot enter the Kabba, so you wouldn't even try to do that because it's understood to you that it's against their rules. So why is it that we have a problem of following the rules of Sikhi where we are wiling to abide by rules of other religions?

Shanti and peace of mind will come easily if we focused more on listenting to Gurbani, and no one can stop anyone from listening to Gurbani anywhere. We are only discussioning that some certain sevas are to be performed by rehitnaam Singhs and Kaurs.

I'm not 'holy' at all so you don't have to use the word 'holier' when making a addressing a statement towards me. ANd if someone would explain to me why I cannot perform a certain seva, I will step down ASAP. I know it will be my own fault if I was to do something which I'm not supposed to, and hence I would only be hurting myself. Guru Sahib has blessed me with doing chaur s

ahib di seva at our local gurdwara sahib, and to do seva there you have to wear a white dastar. So I know that if I want to do seva there I have to tie a white dumalle, it's basic understanding that I have to follow. And when sometimes I cannot change the dumalla I just don't go to do the seva becaue I don't want to break their rules.

I don't understand how you cannot recite Gurbani while doing seva of washing utensils or while cleaning the joore of Sangat.

"Rehit Binaa Tankhaae Jaano"

Anyone who doesn't follow rehit is a tankhaae to even begin with, so there really shouldn't be this question if tankhaaes can do seva of Guru Sahib.

[mann_kaum_layee_qurbaan]

this issue is deeper and more complicated than one may think. One bad outcome of a too "liberal" approach is that it is ok for mandirs to have Guru Sahib's Birs and Pandits can do paath and also perform rituals to idols, long as they do it with love. There currently are some mandirs in India which have Maharj ji's bir.

However, there is no uglier sight than an amritdhari looking down upon monai with disgust that they have not taken khande ka pahul. My friend's personal story: She went to an amritdhari's house to visit a new born baby and the amritdhari mother gave her and her friends the meanest looks of disgust because they had trimmed hair and eyebrows done. She didn't even say hello or anything just ignored them like they were dirt. I'm sorry but when i see arrogant amritdharis who think they are above everyone else is just disgusting, when i see amritdharis i see Guru sahib, and when i see arrogant people i just don't see guru sahib in them.

[Son of Guru Gobind Singh Ji]

good post bhai sahib. I hope I didn't give you that impression when I met you in Chicago! lol