Havan Maryada

[Guest]

17 minutes ago, AmandeepSinghBansel said:

Exactly, I do not mean to offend anyones opinions, through reading itihas this issue has arisen as seen in Naveen panth Prakash, Sri sarbloh Granth and the bhram kavach also. I'm simply trying to make sense of what I've found, but put my faith in the Charan of Aad Sri satguru Granth Sahib ji Maharaj

Could you give me the source of where Guru Gobind Singh Ji did this 'havan'?

[Guest Jacfsing2]

5 hours ago, AmandeepSinghBansel said:

Exactly, I do not mean to offend anyones opinions, through reading itihas this issue has arisen as seen in Naveen panth Prakash, Sri sarbloh Granth and the bhram kavach also. I'm simply trying to make sense of what I've found, but put my faith in the Charan of Aad Sri satguru Granth Sahib ji Maharaj

Do you have direct references from any of the sources, (original Gurmukhi or otherwise)?

[Akalifauj]

7 hours ago, ipledgeblue said:

Yes, but this is not a hindu havan when gurbani is read is it? Lighting a fire automatically becomes a hindu ritual? Then even doing matha tek and chaur sahib is also a hindu ritual so what should we do? Also Aarti.

This is such a bold face lie.  If original poster had titled the thread, fire maryada.  Then no one would have said anything about Havan.  But Havan is a specific ritual performed by the Hindus.  The fire plays a worship role in the Havan.  Hindus worship the fire and offer a sacrifice.  Now take just a fire that is used to cook food or to burn wood for warmth at a camp fire. Neither can Havan be compared to chaur sahib because chaur can be used for anything.  Chaur was waved over idols and kings.  The chaur sahib is not worshipped or nothing is sacrificed to the chaur sahib to obtain something. Chaur sahib is a sign of royalty which Dhan Sri Guru Granth Sahib ji is. Neither can arti be compared to Havan because arti is Gurbani and physical aspect is done before Sri Guru Granth Sahib ji.  

You fake nihangs think in this world and age the Sikhs can't research what a Havan is and what it represents? 

[BhForce]

8 hours ago, AmandeepSinghBansel said:

Exactly, I do not mean to offend anyones opinions, through reading itihas this issue has arisen as seen in Naveen panth Prakash, Sri sarbloh Granth and the bhram kavach also. I'm simply trying to make sense of what I've found, but put my faith in the Charan of Aad Sri satguru Granth Sahib ji Maharaj

Why don't you post what you say you have found so people can discuss that, instead of discussing vagueries?

[Guest]

On 31/08/2017 at 10:24 PM, AmandeepSinghBansel said:

Yes veer ji, from what I've read this was also carried out by Satguru Gobind Singh ji Maharaj at Naina Devi and Akali Nihang Baba deep Singh ji before Shaheedi, but it seems to have fallen out of practice.

Beggers the question then what is the difference between HINDU and SIKH ?

If we're going to worship their way and worship their devi devtey , why insist on a separate Sikh identity ?

what is the reality man ?

[Guest]

As far as I am aware, shiv-shakti concept of hinduism and existence of kundalini and chakras in human body is accepted in Gurbani . 

But unlike hindus, sikhs don't believe in worshiping of shiv shakti but only a concept that's to be understood . 

Shiv means chetna or consciousness. Shakti is power, creative or destructive. 

This is why , when saahib e kamaal Guru Gobind Singh ji maharaj wanted mental strength, he worships to Parbrahm as shiv saroop , i.e consciousness, not mahadev of hinduism.

In chaupai sahib, they themselves say "Mahadev ko kahat sada siv , nirankaar ka chinat neh bhiv" 

 

Same way shakti is another aspect of Parbrahm. It is roughly translated as "energy" , either constructive or destructive. Its worshipped in india as a female goddess , durga or chandi or bhavaani. 

But Maharaj in baani rejects worship of any female deity and infact says in Tav prasad chaupai 

"Anhad roop anahad bani ,Charan sharan je basat bhavani" (O god , even durga seeks your refuge).

So the idea that Havan etc is part of sikhi IMHO is a ridiculous idea . Also Sikhism has no place for polytheism or idolatry 

[ms514]

VAHEGURU JI KA KHALSA, VAHEGURU JI KI FATEH

Please go here - https://www.sikhitothemax.org/

Then type in ਹੋਮ.  Change from first letter to full word (Gurakhar).  The please read.  Gurbani makes it clear that havan is not in line with Gurmat. 

[Nihang96k]

Guru sahib was only participating in the havan practice because the Hindu pandidts came up to guru with a scheme. But guru ji was Jaani Jana they knew everything. When the news got around that guru gobind singh ji was going to start this new initiation (Amrit) the pandit came up with a plan to try and kill baba ajit Singh ji as they thought baba ji would be the next guru. They came up to guru ji and insisted that he would do havan to Candi goddess as in Hindu ithihas whenever something very big was about to happen they would preform havan just like we do ardas. Raam preformed havan before going to yudh with raavan. Guru ji then (knowing everything) agreed and they climbed up naina Devi Pahaar. When the pandit was doing havan nothing happened. Chandi was never summoned and nothing amazing happened. After the pakhand had gone on for about half an hour the pandit then devised his plan. He said guru ji needed to sacrifice something dear to him to please the goddess. His eye rested upon baba ajit Singh ji, guru ji then with a smile said "who could be more dear to me than you, who is going through all this trouble to summon chandi for me" the pandit then realising guru ji was very intelligent ran off. Guru ji then threw all the little tuff and small artefacts that made a huge fire. The pandit would fool people by getting them to pay money and throwing everything into the fire to create a large flame and then say "chandi is here" the true practice to praise the goddess had turned into a business. Guru ji then spent many months up naina Devi preforming tapasiya and havana. from miles away you could see loads of thunder storms and lightning etc. Then when guru ji came back down they asked him if he had summoned chandi. Guru ji took out his Sirohi kirpan and said this is chandi. That's where the name for chandi comes from for the kirpan

pull chuk maaf, if someone very much more knowledgeable than me  knows the name of the pandit please enlighten the sangat on this forum, including me!

wjkk wjkf

12 hours ago, AjeetSinghPunjabi said:

As far as I am aware, shiv-shakti concept of hinduism and existence of kundalini and chakras in human body is accepted in Gurbani . 

But unlike hindus, sikhs don't believe in worshiping of shiv shakti but only a concept that's to be understood . 

Shiv means chetna or consciousness. Shakti is power, creative or destructive. 

This is why , when saahib e kamaal Guru Gobind Singh ji maharaj wanted mental strength, he worships to Parbrahm as shiv saroop , i.e consciousness, not mahadev of hinduism.

In chaupai sahib, they themselves say "Mahadev ko kahat sada siv , nirankaar ka chinat neh bhiv" 

 

Same way shakti is another aspect of Parbrahm. It is roughly translated as "energy" , either constructive or destructive. Its worshipped in india as a female goddess , durga or chandi or bhavaani. 

But Maharaj in baani rejects worship of any female deity and infact says in Tav prasad chaupai 

"Anhad roop anahad bani ,Charan sharan je basat bhavani" (O god , even durga seeks your refuge).

So the idea that Havan etc is part of sikhi IMHO is a ridiculous idea . Also Sikhism has no place for polytheism or idolatry 

 

[ms514]

Pandit Keshav Das

[ipledgeblue]

On 01/09/2017 at 2:05 PM, AmandeepSinghBansel said:

Exactly, I do not mean to offend anyones opinions, through reading itihas this issue has arisen as seen in Naveen panth Prakash, Sri sarbloh Granth and the bhram kavach also. I'm simply trying to make sense of what I've found, but put my faith in the Charan of Aad Sri satguru Granth Sahib ji Maharaj

by reading page 2 pf this thread, I do not think you will find anything constructive regarding this topic on this forum. try SA and reddit.