Free-masonic 'Sikhs'

[Guest q&a]

What do you make of secret societies like freemasons? Can you be both sikh and freemason?

I have heard of many people being initiated and there are historical masonic lodges in Punjab running since East India Company times.

 

[jkvlondon]

13 hours ago, Guest q&a said:

What do you make of secret societies like freemasons? Can you be both sikh and freemason?

I have heard of many people being initiated and there are historical masonic lodges in Punjab running since East India Company times.

 

no  from Gurbani side you cannot serve two masters and For us Waheguru ji is our all in all . Freemason are the antithesis of sikhi they want to control, cheat the populace deny the Creator , sikhi doesn't ... just because India has this plague doesn't mean we need to join them. 

since when has anything that east india company and angrez done been better for our people ? The first thing they did was burn our books, kill our elders and warriors , gave control of our gurdwarey over to anti-sikh mahants and rob our treasuries

Punjab has been doing international trade since ancient times even sycthians came to Punjab to buy our goldsmiths products ...we don't need them

[Kira]

5 hours ago, jkvlondon said:

no  from Gurbani side you cannot serve two masters and For us Waheguru ji is our all in all . Freemason are the antithesis of sikhi they want to control, cheat the populace deny the Creator , sikhi doesn't ... just because India has this plague doesn't mean we need to join them. 

since when has anything that east india company and angrez done been better for our people ? The first thing they did was burn our books, kill our elders and warriors , gave control of our gurdwarey over to anti-sikh mahants and rob our treasuries

Punjab has been doing international trade since ancient times even sycthians came to Punjab to buy our goldsmiths products ...we don't need them

I don't think that's what OP means. He means societies like the Nine Unknown Men. Sort of like Gupt secrets that only they would be privy to.

[Guest London jwaan]

5 hours ago, jkvlondon said:

no  from Gurbani side you cannot serve two masters and For us Waheguru ji is our all in all . Freemason are the antithesis of sikhi they want to control, cheat the populace deny the Creator , sikhi doesn't ... just because India has this plague doesn't mean we need to join them. 

since when has anything that east india company and angrez done been better for our people ? The first thing they did was burn our books, kill our elders and warriors , gave control of our gurdwarey over to anti-sikh mahants and rob our treasuries

Punjab has been doing international trade since ancient times even sycthians came to Punjab to buy our goldsmiths products ...we don't need them

Hold on. Masons dont have a "master" Ie another god that is worshiped. What they have is a requirement that you must believe in a God ie not atheist. It's not Christian aligned . so how is this the antithesis of sikhi and conflicting with gurbani?

Where exactly are they cheating and controlling the populace? What the heck are you on about? (Again)

Masons have been around centuries before east India company even existed, so this is a ridiculous statement to infer that masons are a legacy of that.

Be factual jkv. I have said it once and im saying it again. Otherwise, with these exaggerations and hyperbole youre effectively just a female version of jagsaw the notorious......

[jkvlondon]

1 hour ago, Guest London jwaan said:

Hold on. Masons dont have a "master" Ie another god that is worshiped. What they have is a requirement that you must believe in a God ie not atheist. It's not Christian aligned . so how is this the antithesis of sikhi and conflicting with gurbani?

Where exactly are they cheating and controlling the populace? What the heck are you on about? (Again)

Masons have been around centuries before east India company even existed, so this is a ridiculous statement to infer that masons are a legacy of that.

Be factual jkv. I have said it once and im saying it again. Otherwise, with these exaggerations and hyperbole youre effectively just a female version of jagsaw the notorious......

Placing the group above any faith, race,societal rules or common human ethics  and staying true to the group is another master in abstract form.

Being members of a secret society and using it to get the law of the land changed  or the enforcers to ignore your crimes is an extreme form of cheating . two secret Lodges were revealed in the houses of Parliment recently...for what reason were they needed don't remember any charity work emanating from them ? the oft repeated stories of child abuse in higher echelons of society being ignored by police and justice system from the early seventies until now  are examples . Protection of the perps e.g. Leon Brittan

despite all the claims of brotherhood , charity etc Freemasonery is a closed shop with many rituals ... for sikhs we have our own idea of brotherhood which is universal , charity not as daan but as sharing , nishkam good deeds, no secrecy, lawful , respectful, no belief of ritualism or reliance on dramas  . What's the draw ,the benefit for a sikh to go to freemasonry  ?

[BhForce]

8 hours ago, jkvlondon said:

no  from Gurbani side you cannot serve two masters and For us Waheguru ji is our all in all . Freemason are the antithesis of sikhi they want to control, cheat the populace deny the Creator , sikhi doesn't ... just because India has this plague doesn't mean we need to join them. 

Would you also object to something like the Lions Club? Unlike the Freemasons, the Lions don't use strange symbolism, their origins are not lost to the mists of time (Lions was created in 1916 in Illinois), they don't have secret handshakes or rituals, and they are meant just to be a social service organization, not a kind of substitute religion.

To the OP, I would say, instead of asking why a Sikh should not join Freemasons, I would ask, what's the need to join it in the first place? Just do your social service as a part of your local Gurdwara, or maybe donate to societies (Khalsa Aid, Sevapanthies) that are doing good work. Or join a non-secret social service organization.

[jkvlondon]

6 minutes ago, BhForce said:

Would you also object to something like the Lions Club? Unlike the Freemasons, the Lions don't use strange symbolism, their origins are not lost to the mists of time (Lions was created in 1916 in Illinois), they don't have secret handshakes or rituals, and they are meant just to be a social service organization, not a kind of substitute religion.

To the OP, I would say, instead of asking why a Sikh should not join Freemasons, I would ask, what's the need to join it in the first place? Just do your social service as a part of your local Gurdwara, or maybe donate to societies (Khalsa Aid, Sevapanthies) that are doing good work. Or join a non-secret social service organization.

my only experience of lions club was it attracted the local racial bigots  , which in the east end  was all the skins wannabes...don't know if it has cleaned up ....plenty of community projects to start help out with already  without needing to pay dues

[BhForce]

2 hours ago, Guest London jwaan said:

Masons have been around centuries before east India company even existed, so this is a ridiculous statement to infer that masons are a legacy of that.

Yes, and that's plenty of time for weird stuff (philosophies/rituals/etc.) to accumulate. Why would a Sikh feel a need to be part of that?

When you say "be factual", it's a bit hard to be factual regarding a secret society. 

The Sikh panth is not a secret society because anybody can be present at any Gurdwara.

It is believed by many that Freemasons take a pledge to help their "brothers". This can have a debilitating impact on criminal and other investigations, and the process of lawmaking and governance. As regarding "facts", it's a fact that secret Freemason lodges were operating at Parliament.

https://www.theguardian.com/commentisfree/2018/feb/05/freemasons-masons

https://www.theguardian.com/politics/2018/feb/04/two-freemasons-lodges-operating-secretly-at-westminster

[Guest london jwaan]

5 minutes ago, BhForce said:

Yes, and that's plenty of time for weird stuff (philosophies/rituals/etc.) to accumulate. Why would a Sikh feel a need to be part of that?

When you say "be factual", it's a bit hard to be factual regarding a secret society. 

The Sikh panth is not a secret society because anybody can be present at any Gurdwara.

It is believed by many that Freemasons take a pledge to help their "brothers". This can have a debilitating impact on criminal and other investigations, and the process of lawmaking and governance. As regarding "facts", it's a fact that secret Freemason lodges were operating at Parliament.

https://www.theguardian.com/commentisfree/2018/feb/05/freemasons-masons

https://www.theguardian.com/politics/2018/feb/04/two-freemasons-lodges-operating-secretly-at-westminster

Well even if there is secrecy, "guessing" what goes on and presenting it as fact is a bit idiotic dont you think? I dont really know what goes on in the Brownies as its female only. Should I declare that they all meet up and torture male animals and eat raw fish heads and present it as fact?

No-one is denying that freemason lodges were operating in parliament. But is it a fact therefore that the majority of MPs were masons and therefore laws were set according to Masonic pledges with no regard for what is right for the country? or that because leon brittan was part of "higher society" that therefore he must have been a mason and thats why it was overlooked?

Unfortunately I think you too may be doing a few gusteean out of your jagsaw my friend....

 

[Kira]

1 hour ago, BhForce said:

Would you also object to something like the Lions Club? Unlike the Freemasons, the Lions don't use strange symbolism, their origins are not lost to the mists of time (Lions was created in 1916 in Illinois), they don't have secret handshakes or rituals, and they are meant just to be a social service organization, not a kind of substitute religion.

To the OP, I would say, instead of asking why a Sikh should not join Freemasons, I would ask, what's the need to join it in the first place? Just do your social service as a part of your local Gurdwara, or maybe donate to societies (Khalsa Aid, Sevapanthies) that are doing good work. Or join a non-secret social service organization.

What about societies like the 9 unknown men (providing they exist and aren't just rumors) there's surely some things within the panth that were kept gupt by some organisation for reasons unknown to the general. I mean Loh Prakash Granth was buried for aeons by the Rishis on the orders of Guru Sahib.