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genie

Some area's in UK stopped doing nagar kirtans recently?

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I heard some places around the uk which were doing nagar kirtan for more than decade have stopped doing them for vaisakhi.

The east london one used to have a huge procession with 15,000-20,000 attendances that starting from rosebury gurdwara in manor park but has stopped for past 2 years now.

Any one know what the reasons are?

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51 minutes ago, genie said:

I heard some places around the uk which were doing nagar kirtan for more than decade have stopped doing them for vaisakhi.

The east london one used to have a huge procession with 15,000-20,000 attendances that starting from rosebury gurdwara in manor park but has stopped for past 2 years now.

Any one know what the reasons are?

Have no idea, but is it because, as some people feel, nagar kirtans are a waste of money, and the money should be spent on the poor?

The problem is, I don't think anybody ever gets around to spending the money on the poor.

And I don't think nagar kirtans cost the gurdwara committees too much money. After all, they don't pay for the floats. Only maybe the one for Guru Sahib. And that's just a one-time expense.

In fact they must gain money from offerings.

Some people have the idea of: What's the point of a nagar kirtan?

Well, I think the point is getting us and our message out in front of the world. Guru Nanak Dev ji didn't just sit inside a Gurdwara at Kartarpur. They went all around the world.

The idea of a nagar kirtan is basically similar to Guru Sahib blaring kirtan sitting outside of Baghdad.

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30 minutes ago, BhForce said:

Have no idea, but is it because, as some people feel, nagar kirtans are a waste of money, and the money should be spent on the poor?

The problem is, I don't think anybody ever gets around to spending the money on the poor.

And I don't think nagar kirtans cost the gurdwara committees too much money. After all, they don't pay for the floats. Only maybe the one for Guru Sahib. And that's just a one-time expense.

In fact they must gain money from offerings.

Some people have the idea of: What's the point of a nagar kirtan?

Well, I think the point is getting us and our message out in front of the world. Guru Nanak Dev ji didn't just sit inside a Gurdwara at Kartarpur. They went all around the world.

The idea of a nagar kirtan is basically similar to Guru Sahib blaring kirtan sitting outside of Baghdad.

Yeah i used to be a huge fan of nagar kirtans but I feel they have become rather dull and same old same old lately. There needs to be a more emphasis on agenda for the future, spreading the faith  of guru's message and seeking conversions rather than singing hymns no non-sikh or younger generation can relate too or celebrating the past glories that are long gone.

However the nagar kirtans are important events for rallying Sikhs together and showing the strength in numbers kinda thing. At at time where attendances at gurdwaray are very low especially amoung the youth the nagar kirtans help bring Sikhs together and reconnect the youth with their faith by literally being in their faces. Also lets the non-sikhs know that there is a group called Sikhs around who have a different faith and are not muslims (who they get confused by some ignorant whites).

I think from what i heard why there wasnt nagar kirtan in some parts of UK recently is more to do with police cut backs by the conservative tory government which means less resources to marshal the procession and meaning more rising costs for the gurdwara commitee's to foot the bill which become affordable. Its a shame that it comes down to finances and costs because it should be a religious right to freely express and celebrate the faith every year without having to pay extortionist amounts of money to the authorities.

 

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1 hour ago, genie said:

Also lets the non-sikhs know that there is a group called Sikhs around who have a different faith and are not muslims (who they get confused by some ignorant whites).

All good points.

I do realize that for some young people (and even buddeh), nagar kirtans are just a mela (fair).

But who cares? Someone attends a nagar kirtan for maybe 5 years straight, or even 10 years. Maybe in the 11th year he'll encounter a Sikh pracharak (traditional or otherwise) or a pamphlet which will transform his life.

If there were no nagar kirtans, that would not happen.

Also, great numbers of Sikhs coming together is praised by Bhai Gurdas ji:

ਦੋਇ ਸਿਖ ਸਾਧਸੰਗੁ ਪੰਚ ਪਰਮੇਸਰ ਹੈ ਦਸ ਬੀਸ ਤੀਸ ਮਿਲੇ ਅਬਿਗਤਿ ਊਪ ਹੈ ॥੧੨੨॥

Doi Sikh Saadhasangu Panch Paramaysar Hai , Das Bees Tees Milay Abigati Oop Hai ॥122॥

So would two Sikhs together make a holy congregation while five of them would represent the Lord. But where ten, twenty or thirty like-minded Sikhs engrossed in the love of the Guru meet, their praise is beyond description. (122)

ਭਾਈ ਗੁਰਦਾਸ ਜੀ : ਕਬਿੱਤ ੧੨੨ ਪੰ. ੪

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3 hours ago, BhForce said:

Have no idea, but is it because, as some people feel, nagar kirtans are a waste of money, and the money should be spent on the poor?

The problem is, I don't think anybody ever gets around to spending the money on the poor.

And I don't think nagar kirtans cost the gurdwara committees too much money. After all, they don't pay for the floats. Only maybe the one for Guru Sahib. And that's just a one-time expense.

In fact they must gain money from offerings.

Some people have the idea of: What's the point of a nagar kirtan?

Well, I think the point is getting us and our message out in front of the world. Guru Nanak Dev ji didn't just sit inside a Gurdwara at Kartarpur. They went all around the world.

The idea of a nagar kirtan is basically similar to Guru Sahib blaring kirtan sitting outside of Baghdad.

I don't remember the Sakhi of Guru Nanak Dev ji's Ghetto blaster ...

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1 minute ago, jkvlondon said:

I don't remember the Sakhi of Guru Nanak Dev ji's Ghetto blaster ...

Really? Is that what you want to say?

Now, while I do agree with the sentiment (expressed online on Facebook and elsewhere) that local Gurdwaras should not blast kirtan on loudspeakers for hours, that doesn't happen outside of India.

In the UK, I would very much doubt that Sikhs are using loudspeakers illegally. I assume they have permits.

So, what exactly are you trying to say? 

That mikes/speakers should be banned in the Gurdwara, too? Because Guru Sahib didn't use those either. Nor heaters, fans, air conditioners, electric lighting, etc.

Way to miss the point. The point is that Guru Sahib took the message to the people, as opposed to sitting ensconced in a temple waiting for people to show up.

And there were processions during the time of the 10 Gurus, too.

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1 hour ago, BhForce said:

Really? Is that what you want to say?

Now, while I do agree with the sentiment (expressed online on Facebook and elsewhere) that local Gurdwaras should not blast kirtan on loudspeakers for hours, that doesn't happen outside of India.

In the UK, I would very much doubt that Sikhs are using loudspeakers illegally. I assume they have permits.

So, what exactly are you trying to say? 

That mikes/speakers should be banned in the Gurdwara, too? Because Guru Sahib didn't use those either. Nor heaters, fans, air conditioners, electric lighting, etc.

Way to miss the point. The point is that Guru Sahib took the message to the people, as opposed to sitting ensconced in a temple waiting for people to show up.

And there were processions during the time of the 10 Gurus, too.

Man you should not have said Guru ji 'blared' kirtan , kirtan was sung in his beautiful mesmerising voice , kirtan is beautiful  melodic not a cacophony, show a bit more respect please. I suspect the reasons why Nagar kirtans are not so extensive is 1. councils usually need lots of notice so they can redirect traffic in the bourough  2. If mess has been left behind the Gurdwarey have been reprimanded as austerity measures leaves nothing in council coffers for clean up crews. 3. Youth are not attending as they used  4. The usual suspects have been using nagar kirtans/melas as grooming opportunities 5. levels of coordination and organisation required means there isn't a specific person/group pushing this as a priority.

I think we should not be doing langar along routes but instead encourage people to join in the kirtan procession and have langar at the gurdwarey en route , where there are pamplets , speakers  and helpers to welcome non-sikhs to gurdwara  and gurbani . this would remove mess on streets , encourage community knowledge , keep our kids safe .

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11 minutes ago, jkvlondon said:

Man you should not have said Guru ji 'blared' kirtan , kirtan was sung in his beautiful mesmerising voice , kirtan is beautiful  melodic not a cacophony, show a bit more respect please.

Alright, I'll go ahead and apologize. My intent was to say that Guru Sahib did kirtan in a loud voice that reached afar, which is evident from the account, which says that Guru ji was outside the city, and the people of the city still heard them.

13 minutes ago, jkvlondon said:

1. councils usually need lots of notice so they can redirect traffic in the bourough

Presumably, the committee doesn't get the idea of holding a nagar kirtan the day before Baisakhi. Prior planning is a must.

14 minutes ago, jkvlondon said:

If mess has been left behind the Gurdwarey have been reprimanded as austerity measures leaves nothing in council coffers for clean up crews.

Well, I don't think the councils should have to pay for cleanup. We should have crews of volunteer cleaners picking up garbage along the route. That's how they do it in many cities.

14 minutes ago, jkvlondon said:

3. Youth are not attending as they used 

Unfortunate.

15 minutes ago, jkvlondon said:

4. The usual suspects have been using nagar kirtans/melas as grooming opportunities

Unfortunate.

15 minutes ago, jkvlondon said:

I think we should not be doing langar along routes but instead encourage people to join in the kirtan procession and have langar at the gurdwarey en route , where there are pamplets , speakers  and helpers to welcome non-sikhs to gurdwara  and gurbani . this would remove mess on streets , encourage community knowledge , keep our kids safe .

Yeah, that's a good idea for main langar (dal + roti etc.). Plus the jihadis would be superstitious about entering a Gurdwara (they're afraid entering will suck the jihad out of them). Thereby creating a safe, jihadi-free zone to eat.

But for kids and such they would still need to at least have bottled water or sealed water cups along the way.

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3 hours ago, BhForce said:

Alright, I'll go ahead and apologize. My intent was to say that Guru Sahib did kirtan in a loud voice that reached afar, which is evident from the account, which says that Guru ji was outside the city, and the people of the city still heard them.

Presumably, the committee doesn't get the idea of holding a nagar kirtan the day before Baisakhi. Prior planning is a must.

Well, I don't think the councils should have to pay for cleanup. We should have crews of volunteer cleaners picking up garbage along the route. That's how they do it in many cities.

Unfortunate.

Unfortunate.

Yeah, that's a good idea for main langar (dal + roti etc.). Plus the jihadis would be superstitious about entering a Gurdwara (they're afraid entering will suck the jihad out of them). Thereby creating a safe, jihadi-free zone to eat.

But for kids and such they would still need to at least have bottled water or sealed water cups along the way.

maybe promote sikhi eco ethics by giving out ecofriendly bottles of water i.e. reusable which advertise local homeless shelters, hospices , charities etc

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