UK Nangs

[Taran]

I've heard bits and bobs about this lot..

But what are they doing against the panth..??

can some1 give me details plz.. bullet points... so b4 i got knock em out i got justification :wub:

Also i hear any1 who attempts to beat them up.. they get police involved.. and they call themselves nihangs.. can they not fight?!

The bit that bothers me the most is the gurbani bit.. editing gurbani.. that makes my blood boil..

also.. i say a website about nidar.. shastarvidiya.com..

its out of order some of the stuff they do/preach.

I think they organised some lectures or summat in london.?? have they been done or still to come??

Gurfateh.

[Gupat Singhni]

The nangs have had done lectures in very prestigious locations around UK with a hugh publicity campaign that has attracted many.

I have also been told that Buddha Dal have confirmed they have not heard of Nidar!

The reason that the nangs are gaining so much popularity is because they can do all the things that are forbidden in sikhi therefore their version of sikhi which they consider to be the correct version is VERY easy to follow...simply because it is not sikhi.

Firstly, you do not need to take a bath everyday because nangs are preparing for yudh therefore they think that they will not be able to bathe everyday, so they may as well start practising now..(i mean it's not like the singh's in the jungle used to have ishnaan in the river or anything..so if you think about it their idea is great because they are saving so much water..what conservationists! Just so this absolutely clear the part in brackets is sarcasm)

The other thing is that you do not need to do matha teek to guru granth sahib. After all Gurdev (nidar nang) will not bow his head and allow his forhead to touch the floor so why would the shagirads do this? Again if you think about it this I am sure there is a logical explanation for not allowing your head to touch the floor in front of guru granth sahib..this is probably another warped idea about saving your energy for yudh times :wub: and please, before anyone thinks I have lost the plot, I saw 'Gurdev' doing this in April this year..

r>well, i think i have wasted enough time describing their warped view on sikhi, all you have to do is go to their website to read their BS

Educating people about the nangs is one way to defeat them and anyone that knows the core principals of sikhi but is willing to follow the nang way may not be worth it in anyway..e.g. lost causes like 'Bullshite Bob'

[Taran]

whats the website?

shastarvidiya.com??

[Guest KirtanLover]

vwihgurU jI kw Kwlsw!

vwihgurU jI kI &iqh!!

Gupat Singhni, excellent post. Its about time we educate the sangat exactly what these nangs are really about. You just have to visit their website and see what they get up to in their so called sikhicamps... Total disgrace. :wub: @ But it IS a problem, as a lot of youth nowadays are very immpressionable unfortunately.

List of some things they believe:

1. eating meat

2. doing and promoting bhang

3. Slating Sahib Siri Guru Hargobind Ji, saying he also did bhang

4. promoting that bibian can just do kirpan da Amrit and not worthy of khande da Amrit

5. Saying Baba Gurbachan Singh ji also did bhang.

6. Slating Shaheeds from 1978, 1984 and after as fanatics

7. Saying only the person who eats meat has the warrior spirit, and only he can be shaheed.

8. promoting shaving of kesh around genetial area. (still not discovered why? and how they got to that subject)

9. Taking off karas.

10. Believe themselves part of the Hindu nation, and not Sikh Panth

11. Promotion of devis, devtas, and their pooja.

Others have heard with their own ears that Keski for woman makes u a man, alcohol is ok in some situations, etc etc, all of this is preached at their lectures.

It's good to see BOSS getting back up there on the scene. We need to support BOSS everyway that we can. :wub: You'll see a lot of people come and go in institutions such as the Nang clan, some ex-associates have said that the total 'bakwas' you see makes you question their true tactics and they leave. So yeah, educating people about the nangs is one way to defeat them, if they can say bakwas openly on their website, we shouldn't shy away from whats right. Bachan Vidya's signiture is an example of what we should stand for:

What is false I will call false.

Even though the people may try to silence me.

I do not care for what anybody says.

I will speak but the truth from my mouth.

Guru Gobind Singh ji,

vwihgurU jI kw Kwlsw!

vwihgurU jI kI &iqh!!

[Guest SYA]

It time my bothers and sisters to take control of this stuation.

this is humble reuqest, t s time to do parchar, gurmat and defeat these people and there manmat ideas. Each and everyone of us need to start talking with guroo ji and teaching ot brothers and sisters what the truth is.

This i not bout, akj, taksal or any oter jatha. It is about the whole Khalsa panth. We need to come together and teach our brothers and sister what sikhi is about, what importance kesh have in sikhi the fact of female and male doesnt come into it!

Guroo's preached and Guroo granth sahib ji still does preach equality it is time we start preaching gurbni and the truth.

for there s no truth higher then Akaal.

Akkkaaaaaallllaaaa :nihungsmile:

for all the nangs out there

http://forums.waheguroo.com/index.ppa?act=...t=0entry77591

[Niranjana]

Gur Fateh!

The main problem I have seen to date with the UK Nihangs/Sanatan Sikhs and other Sikhs in the UK is simply that Sikhs are oh so emotional when it comes to 'actually' discussing matters.

Look at this thread, 80% of the comments are either insults or 'I heard from so and so' or 'they say bad things that are twisted from the dasam granth' and so on. What are these things, let's actually prove them wrong with facts!

MS514 veer ji has been the only one on this thread to make a sensible comment -i.e. let's look at some hard facts and do something proactive (i.e. contact the Buddha Dal and verify matters etc)

From my time online, I have been harassed by a certain 'respected and knowledgeable' individual "gursikh", been called a NANG by a certain "Gursikh Bibi" -none of whom know me or even have tried to speak to me -all they are doing is acting out of emotion and venting their anger of the Nihangs on whoever they consider an easy target.

The funniest of it all is that I am not even a Nihang, I wear a 'samosa' dastaar and took amrit from a Gurdwara in Delhi and follow a rehit not too disimilar to that propagated by the Damdami Taksal (i.e. a little more than was given to me by the DGMC), yet simply asking a few questions or pointing out a few areas causing people to jump on the band wagon and term me a NANG.

Likewise, I see too many people who don't listen or read upon on the material presented on the Sanatan Sites and simply use it to find loop holes in their 'percieved' marayda to allow them to do a whole host of anti-Gurmat activities.

In either case, these are the issu

es of the people involved, i.e. they are looking for a means to 'get out' and likewise for those who feel it necessary to insult non-Nihangs, in many cases female Gursikhs, as a means to "getting to their Nihang friends" even if those whom they attack and harass may not share the opinions of the Nihangs.

This type of behaviour is not limited only to this forum, we can see the type of responses that people ramble up like the childish website created using dolls for Baba Santa Singh etc, which only point to one's inability to discuss.

Even on Sikhawareness.com -a site commonly accused of being pro-UK Nihangs, we can see the same trend as above, yet nothing constructive from either side. The moderators on that site have even arranged for 2 Discussions on the historical points put forth by the UK Nihangs and some other points of conflict using actual "historical sources" i.e. hard facts.

It is surprising to see that none of the Nihangs or Nirmalas have to date been able to provide a response to the areas raised and more so that those who despite the UK Nihangs so much have not contributed to these threads, yet continue to slander them "personally" elsewhere on Sikhawareness and this forum and others.

All this points to is that Sikhs whosoever they be, clearly prefer 'personal' attacks or 'snide' remarks rather than actual discussion.

The comment here about 'all other means have failed' -come on!!! What other means? All we have really seen is people attack personalities. Same for the Nihangs, they all reliant on what Nihang Niddar Singh says and very few actually bother to go and read the sources themselves -this is no different to the manner in which other Sikhs are happy to tag along with the 'maryada' propagated by their Sant, Baba or Bhai Sahib without question or reference to any historical texts or even Guru Sahib in entirety.

For evidence of this, do a search on this site, tapoban or sikhawareness for a discussion

on Nanaksar for example and one will see many criticism if not out right hatred for Baba Nand Singh's maryada as followed by present day Nanaksaria.

I am not here to defend the mainstream Sikhs or the Nihangs or any group in fact. I count myself as a Sikh and all I am concerned about is Sikhi and our true unadulterated history and culture. If there is condemnation to be aired, it will be aired, be it to the Tat Khalsa or the Sanatanists and likewise for the praise.

Let's look to our original sources and apply reason and actually 'discuss' matters. Perhaps a discussion like the one the moderators are attempting to have on Sikhawareness on here will allow this to happen. Simply getting fustrated is not going to solve anything.

Gur Fateh!

Niranjana.

[gurminder_uk]

Niranjana bro is right. We need to stop getting emotional. I was at the final two lectures. The first one i could only stay for half of the talk but the final one I was for the whole talk. My opinion is that Nidder has no knowledge. Anyone can talk off a prepared script but it takes someone with true knowedge to be able to answer questions based on the talk. Not only was his lecture BORING but he got a lot of basic facts wrong. He said that a picture of some udasis was taken at Sadh Bela and said that it is in mumbai! Sadh Bela is on a island in the indus river in Sind in Pakistan. Quite a boboo given he's supposed to some kind of jathedar of snantan sikhs. ets hope some udasi doesn't ask him directions to sadh bela! He said that Maharajah Ranjeet Singh arranged for Engish to be taught in Panjab, in fact Maharajah Ranjeet Singh refused to allow Engish to be taught by the missionaries because they wanted only to teach the Bible. He referred to those Muslims who believe that Guru Nanak was a Muslim as Nanakshahi Sikhs!. These Muslims are Ahmedi Muslims and not Nanakshahi Sikhs. Nanakpanthi and Nanakshahi Sikhs are just those Sikhs whose ancestors were part of Sikh sangats who did not take Amrit. Nidder said that although he had promised not to quote Gurbani at the talks he would. The only Gurbani i can remember him quoting was a verse by Bhagat Kabirji but he said it was by Guruji!! Now I know why he doesn't quote Gurbani at his talks, but it is strange that someone that talks about a religion even a fake made up snatan sikhism yet choses not to quote Gurbani.

Nidder used the event to attack the beliefs of mainstream Sikhs. He referred to those Sik

hs who would rather not have a life saving operation because it involved cutting off kesh as 'fanatics'. Maybe someone should tell him that such a 'fanatic' was Sant Kartar Singh Bhindranwale. A Brahmgyani whose boots Nidder isn't fit to lick. He brownnosed to the three or four invited Muslims by referring to Arabic as the 'language of percision'. Anyone who has read the different translations of Quran will testify just how precise Arabic is!! He also claimed that Quran was taught at the Harmandir Sahib during Maharajah Ranjeet Singh's time! sure the azan was banned from the Mosques but the Quran to be taught at Harmandir Sahib..lol.

The audience of the lectures were about 70 people, majority were Nangs perhaps 70% There were about 4 Muslims, 10 monay, a Hindu or two, 3-4 whites and the rest were mainstream Sikhs. All the Nangs were there incuding <admin-profanity filter activated> Bob and the only nang missing was Kamalroop. The specially invited Muslims especially the Muslim who described the talk as informative was a friend of his chela bhadhur singh. Bhadhur goes to the Shia event where they beat themselves over their leaders death and they come to support him in Nidder's talks. Most of the questions sounded set up. The girl who said that she did not know much about Sikhi and that she was impressed by the talk was the Sikh society president who had booked the talk! Another friend of bhadhur! When someone gave some facts that proved that Nidder's talk was not correct he cut that person short. He had to admit that snatan sikhs were also stooges of the british, though his talk only tried imply that Tat Khalsa was stooges.

What was heartening was that the Gurdwaras at last took notice of Nidder's bakwas. A few Sikhs from the Park Ave Gurdwara were there and they rightly told Nidder that he shouldn't be putting such a biased view of the Singh Sabha. Nidder was obviously upset because after the Singhs left and someone else wa

nted to ask a question Nidder accused him of being the nephew of the same Singh!

The only thing that came out of the talks was just to show how Nidder's knowledge is zilch as of his chelay. No wonder someone told that Nidder was asked to a debate on Panjab Radio but he declined. It's ok to talk down to young Sikhs who do not have much knowledge of Sikhism but another matter to explain your views to those who have studied Sikhism and Gurbani all their lives!

[gurminder_uk]

if anyone has a chance to listen to the recording of the talks especially the last one please do because it will be the biggest laugh you'll have

:wub: )))) :wub: ))))

[Dhan Teri Sikhi]

Are the recordings available?

[Niranjana]

Niranjana bro is right. We need to stop getting emotional. I was at the final two lectures. The first one i could only stay for half of the talk but the final one I was for the whole talk. My opinion is that Nidder has no knowledge. Anyone can talk off a prepared script but it takes someone with true knowedge to be able to answer questions based on the talk. Not only was his lecture BORING but he got a lot of basic facts wrong. He said that a picture of some udasis was taken at Sadh Bela and said that it is in mumbai! Sadh Bela is on a island in the indus river in Sind in Pakistan. Quite a boboo given he's supposed to some kind of jathedar of snantan sikhs. ets hope some udasi doesn't ask him directions to sadh bela! He said that Maharajah Ranjeet Singh arranged for Engish to be taught in Panjab, in fact Maharajah Ranjeet Singh refused to allow Engish to be taught by the missionaries because they wanted only to teach the Bible. He referred to those Muslims who believe that Guru Nanak was a Muslim as Nanakshahi Sikhs!. These Muslims are Ahmedi Muslims and not Nanakshahi Sikhs. Nanakpanthi and Nanakshahi Sikhs are just those Sikhs whose ancestors were part of Sikh sangats who did not take Amrit. Nidder said that although he had promised not to quote Gurbani at the talks he would. The only Gurbani i can remember him quoting was a verse by Bhagat Kabirji but he said it was by Guruji!! Now I know why he doesn

39;t quote Gurbani at his talks, but it is strange that someone that talks about a religion even a fake made up snatan sikhism yet choses not to quote Gurbani.

Nidder used the event to attack the beliefs of mainstream Sikhs. He referred to those Sikhs who would rather not have a life saving operation because it involved cutting off kesh as 'fanatics'. Maybe someone should tell him that such a 'fanatic' was Sant Kartar Singh Bhindranwale. A Brahmgyani whose boots Nidder isn't fit to lick. He brownnosed to the three or four invited Muslims by referring to Arabic as the 'language of percision'. Anyone who has read the different translations of Quran will testify just how precise Arabic is!! He also claimed that Quran was taught at the Harmandir Sahib during Maharajah Ranjeet Singh's time! sure the azan was banned from the Mosques but the Quran to be taught at Harmandir Sahib..lol.

The audience of the lectures were about 70 people, majority were Nangs perhaps 70% There were about 4 Muslims, 10 monay, a Hindu or two, 3-4 whites and the rest were mainstream Sikhs. All the Nangs were there incuding Bob and the only nang missing was Kamalroop. The specially invited Muslims especially the Muslim who described the talk as informative was a friend of his chela bhadhur singh. Bhadhur goes to the Shia event where they beat themselves over their leaders death and they come to support him in Nidder's talks. Most of the questions sounded set up. The girl who said that she did not know much about Sikhi and that she was impressed by the talk was the Sikh society president who had booked the talk! Another friend of bhadhur!  When someone gave some facts that proved that Nidder's talk was not correct he cut that person short. He had to admit that snatan sikhs were also stooges of the british, though his talk only tried imply that Tat Khalsa was stooges.

What was heartening was that the Gurdwaras at last took not

ice of Nidder's bakwas. A few Sikhs from the Park Ave Gurdwara were there and they rightly told Nidder that he shouldn't be putting such a biased view of the Singh Sabha. Nidder was obviously upset because after the Singhs left and someone else wanted to ask a question Nidder accused him of being the nephew of the same Singh!

The only thing that came out of the talks was just to show how Nidder's knowledge is zilch as of his chelay. No wonder someone told that Nidder was asked to a debate on Panjab Radio but he declined. It's ok to talk down to young Sikhs who do not have much knowledge of Sikhism but another matter to explain your views to those who have studied Sikhism and Gurbani all their lives!

Gurminder Jee,

Thanks for your insight into some of the discrepancies, it is this that needs to be high lighted and not one's personal opinion of Niddar Singh or anyone else.

Your points concerning the inaccuracies within his presentation are well made and these should be raised to him directly -alternatively compile this list in full without the 'nang' this and 'nang' that commentary and present it online for sensible analysis.

Only point I would like to point out is the Muslim member of the discussion who did make a final point in the last lecture, where I was also present was in fact a Sunni Muslim and from my attendence to the lecture the week before had a long discussion/argument with Bahadur Singh concerning the position of Sikhi and the usual "Islam is the only true path..." so he certainly cannot be considered to be a Shia as I'm sure he would protest quite understandable, against such a notion!

It was good to see the Gurdwara representatives in attendance, however as with a similar session with Ramgharia Gurdwara Slough, the shame is that the Singh Sabha Gurdwara Members tend to make a few points and then disappear without the chance for discussi

on, which doesn't really help either side of the argument. (in the case of the Ramgharia Gurdwara, quite predictably, they would make a few 'neutral' remarks and then leave!).

My experience so far with all the groups that I have had the chance to sit in sangat with, be they Nihangs, AKJ, Taksal, Namdharis, Singh Sabhas, Ramgharias or whoever, Sikhs really do have a hard time having a simple discussion!