The Shillong Clashes - A History

[jkvlondon]

1 hour ago, Big_Tera said:

It was a joke. 

I know what a fire extinguisher is used for. lol

I knew what you were doing but still trying to keep the thing balanced cos not all lurkers get sarcasm

[Big_Tera]

On 6/6/2018 at 7:21 PM, DailyMail said:

Kidda Jagsaw,

Nice to see you back. How's the doctoral thesis coming along?

Just a quick note. The Sikh Pioneer regiments recruited exclusively from the very communities (and others) that you mention. They fought all over the world and were the only Sikh regiment to be awarded "royal" battalion status for services rendered in WW1, in particular, the Western Front.

The rest of your post is an eye opener, and once again, I learnt something I didn't know before.

With all due respect to jigsaw. I think he just googles a topic finds a few articles about it. Then wham makes a post out of them. It makes him sound like hes some historian full of knowledge. 

When what he does is a piece of cake that anyone can do. If they have some spare time. 

Google can make the dimmest of people sound smart. Not saying jigsaw is dim. 

just dont be amazed by his posts. the fact that the british shipped people all ove india to do hard labour is well known. they even took indians to the Caribbean. 

What should amaze is when someone does a topic or post that he has not researched but the knowledge is up their in his head from memory. not by reading up on things beforehand and trying to act smart with other posters who have no knowledge of those things as they have not spent time reading up on it. 

[Guest Ban Casteists]

Wonderful that the casteist West London Jagsaw Khan has graced this forum again.

With his usual wonderful epithets of referring to brave and fearless Sikhs as in his words "chureh and chamar".

Ironic that Muslim Jatts, Muslim Brahmins and Muslim Rajputs and other high caste Muslims in 1947 used to refer to Sikhs as a "chureh chamaarah di Qaum" when they had intentions of annexing eastern Punjab in 1947 and anticipated zero resistance from Sikhs given the dynamics witnessed in west Punjab where Sikhs were heavily outnumbered during the Pakistani Genocide of Sikhs in which 20% of the Sikh population was murdered.

That said, instead of demonising the Khasi tribespeople, Sikhs should use this as an opportunity for Punjab based and sewadars to reach out to the local Sikh population and assist whilst also helping poor members of the Khasi. A clash which benefits nobody apart from Hindutva forces who wish to classify Sikh as being "chureh and chamar" due to Dhan Dhan Baba Ravidas Ji Maharaj and Shaheed Bhai Jiwan Singh Ji. Whereas community outreach can plant the seed of Sikhi within the Khasi Qaum. Countless millions of adivasi Indians were part of the Sikh Panth until the SGPC stupidly defined them as non-Sikhs via the 1950 maryada that was cooked up in cahoots with Nehru as a means to numerically weaken the Sikhs (and it succeeded).

Furthermore, with Punjab based Sikhs being fragmented away from the Sikh Panth by apartheid mandirs run by Dera Ballan and neo-Balmiki figureheads then it is highly likely that Sikhs could become a minority in Punjab within 3years (as opposed to the current projection of Sikhs becoming a minority in Punjab within 13years).

How the Sikh Panth handles this situation and if it can see the recent problems as an opportunity to create a win/win situation for both poor Sikhs and poor Khasi so that future Khalsa Sikhs of "Khasi" ancestry can arise. All poor and downtrodden people are "Rangreteh Guru ke Beteh" ...

 

 

[Guest jigsaw_puzzled_singh]

8 hours ago, Big_Tera said:

With all due respect to jigsaw. I think he just googles a topic finds a few articles about it. Then wham makes a post out of them. It makes him sound like hes some historian full of knowledge. 

When what he does is a piece of cake that anyone can do. If they have some spare time. 

Google can make the dimmest of people sound smart. Not saying jigsaw is dim. 

just dont be amazed by his posts. the fact that the british shipped people all ove india to do hard labour is well known. they even took indians to the Caribbean. 

What should amaze is when someone does a topic or post that he has not researched but the knowledge is up their in his head from memory. not by reading up on things beforehand and trying to act smart with other posters who have no knowledge of those things as they have not spent time reading up on it. 

Big Tera,

I am not here to "amaze" anyone. In truth, every last one of us is truly amazing in our own right. Each of us is capable of amazing things and each skill that we individually possess is simply one doing the thing they are good at. Your skills - and I'm sure you are capable of so many things that I would be totally rubbish at - do not and should not intimidate me and neither should my things intimidate you. That's not what they are designed to do. As you'll see from my history on this forum there are some topics that I never post any opinion on and when I do its normally a little joke or two that masks the fact that I know absolutely zero about that subject matter. On the other hand, when it comes to the subjects of history, society, race and ethnicity, anthropology and architecture I absolutely adore posting. And when I do post, I do so purely because I not only love the subject matter but truly enjoy the opportunity to converse with others about these things that I love so much. If you think about it, when I have spent a lifetime reading and learning about that kind of subject matter wouldn't it be strange if I was afraid to share my knowledge and views and keep what I know hidden in the fear that someone might think I'm copy and pasting ?  I'm sure you'd agree that would be such an irrational and fear-filled way to live one's life. So, brother, all I am doing is the thing that I love to do: sharing my knowledge and in essence that is exactly what discussion forums are designed for. What anybody knows should never be something that frightens you or provokes a negative reaction within you. The knowledge or opinion of others should always provoke just one thing: thought.

Now...A few weeks ago you started a thread about Gurdwara Designs and Sikh Architecture. I think that was an absolutely brilliant thread to start, particularly because it's a subject matter that I love so much. I progressed your thread on the Gupt section and it would be really awesome if you and others could add to that discussion and we could all learn a thing or two about each other's thought. Especially given the fact that architecture and design is about personal preferences and viewpoints as what is right or wrong or beautiful or ugly is only true based purely on what the eyes of the individual sees. No 'wikipedia' there my friend. No copy and pasting. Just each man and woman with his and her own personal thoughts. Share them with me on that thread Big tera. Would love to hear from you there.

[Ranjeet01]

On 6/7/2018 at 1:27 PM, Guest jigsaw_puzzled_singh said:

Thank you Daily Mail.

The Shillong situation is interesting because - although I haven't had much time to read too much about the catalyst for this latest clash in Shillong  - previous clashes between the locals and the Sikhs stretching as far back as 1972 always seem to involve the issue of 'women'. Before I say anything else though let me be clear that these are just 'excuses' for clashes. The clashes always occur and will always keep occurring because it is the officially sanctioned policy of the local government and police there to harass all 'outsiders' and drive them out. It just so happens that the Sikhs are now more or less the only ones left after the other groups went. And let us also be clear that these Sikh Punjabis are not rich by any standards. In fact they are poor. In reality they have nothing much to stay and fight for which makes their stand up and fight for their rights stance all the more impressive.

Now...back to what I was saying about the issue of 'women'. 2 things normally start the all too often clashes there:

1. The Khasi men being overly sensitive about their women
2. The emancipated Khasi men habitually not treating the Sikh women with the same respect they show their own women.

You see, the natives of Shillong (the khasis) - who are actually a very pretty race of people - are one of the few groups on earth that practice a matrilineal tradition. The women have the power in their society and the men do as they are told. Amongst the Khasis, the youngest daughter inherits all family property, men are expected to move into their wives's home after marriage and children must take their mother's family name. In essence then, the female Khasi is looked up to as god-like by the males which means any Punjabi male even looking at them wrong is seen as an act of extreme aggression and it also means that the non-Khasi females (i.e. Sikh Punjabi) are seen as fair game by the Khasi males which in turn will naturally provoke a strong reaction from the Punjabi males. So, even without the fact that the police and local government actively harass the Sikh Punjabis, whichever way you look at it there is never going to be an end to clashes in Shillong. 

 

Very interesting. .

Seems to be some extreme case of mate guarding by the khasi males.

Normally feminists would clamour that it is the "patriarchy" to this reason that the clashes over women but it is an interesting dynamic since this more of a matriarchal society.

It could very well be a possibility that since  Khasi women are in charge will mean that Khasi men are not particularly respected since they are seen as lower status and less masculine. 

Seeing a more masculine and dominant taller male like a Sikh male will automatically make them more attractive to the Khasi female and this would make Khasi male more insecure. 

However there is a phenomenon around all the different states of India where people from other states are seen as outsiders. Regionalism is definitely a stronger identifier than being an Indian. 

 

 

[MisterrSingh]

39 minutes ago, Ranjeet01 said:

However there is a phenomenon around all the different states of India where people from other states are seen as outsiders. Regionalism is definitely a stronger identifier than being an Indian. 

Makes one wonder how long the lid can be kept shut on such a tinderbox. I'm still surprised how India managed to wrangle their "United States of India." I'm guessing post-British Empire the anti-Colonial sentiment galvanised the country by channeling national sentiment and loyalty for one common purpose; the zeal of a newly independent country and the potential hope for a brighter future probably carried them through the first few decades since independence. I think the admittedly hopeful economic situation in the country is masking many serious regional issues that will continue to fester until an unfortunate tipping point. 

[Guest AjeetSinghPunjabi]

5 minutes ago, MisterrSingh said:

Makes one wonder how long the lid can be kept shut on such a tinderbox. I'm still surprised how India managed to wrangle their "United States of India." I'm guessing post-British Empire the anti-Colonial sentiment galvanised the country by channeling national sentiment and loyalty for one common purpose; the zeal of a newly independent country and the potential hope for a brighter future probably carried them through the first few decades since independence. I think the admittedly hopeful economic situation in the country is masking many serious regional issues that will continue to fester until an unfortunate tipping point. 

most people tend to keep their separatist sentiments low when the potential of an army crackdown and an army rifle on point blank . 

I have heard some people say its hinduism that is uniting factor of india . However that doesn't explain why north eastern christian states (3 of them) are still with india if religion is the uniting force. 

The sole uniting force is fear of army crackdown if they tried to become separatist

[jkvlondon]

1 hour ago, MisterrSingh said:

Makes one wonder how long the lid can be kept shut on such a tinderbox. I'm still surprised how India managed to wrangle their "United States of India." I'm guessing post-British Empire the anti-Colonial sentiment galvanised the country by channeling national sentiment and loyalty for one common purpose; the zeal of a newly independent country and the potential hope for a brighter future probably carried them through the first few decades since independence. I think the admittedly hopeful economic situation in the country is masking many serious regional issues that will continue to fester until an unfortunate tipping point. 

more like the fear of 'President's rule'  written into the constitution where arbitrarily the Centre can dismiss state government's and take over ...as experienced by our state . People are more troubled about day to day issues than deeper countrywide issues that's how mughals/British/Gandhis/RSS can get in , and hold onto control ... purely through oppressive legislation bequesthed to them from Angrez

[Ranjeet01]

1 hour ago, MisterrSingh said:

Makes one wonder how long the lid can be kept shut on such a tinderbox. I'm still surprised how India managed to wrangle their "United States of India." I'm guessing post-British Empire the anti-Colonial sentiment galvanised the country by channeling national sentiment and loyalty for one common purpose; the zeal of a newly independent country and the potential hope for a brighter future probably carried them through the first few decades since independence. I think the admittedly hopeful economic situation in the country is masking many serious regional issues that will continue to fester until an unfortunate tipping point. 

The problem with the notion of India is that it currently is more of a Westphalian concept of a nation state. 

This does not really fit into what India actually is.

It has never been a country but more of an umbrella term.

You could perhaps see it as a civilisation state, but the current set up is an artificial one, it is not a natural fit. 

I have worked with many Indians from many states but even though I am a British Sikh of Punjabi heritage, I cannot feel any real affinity towards them.

I can only feel that with my fellow Sikhs from India or with Hindu Punjabis. 

 

 

[MisterrSingh]

5 minutes ago, Ranjeet01 said:

The problem with the notion of India is that it currently is more of a Westphalian concept of a nation state. 

This does not really fit into what India actually is.

It has never been a country but more of an umbrella term.

You could perhaps see it as a civilisation state, but the current set up is an artificial one, it is not a natural fit. 

I have worked with many Indians from many states but even though I am a British Sikh of Punjabi heritage, I cannot feel any real affinity towards them.

I can only feel that with my fellow Sikhs from India or with Hindu Punjabis. 

First-rate points. Not the kind of observations that can be learned from memorising statistics. 

You're spot-on about the notion of affinity. There's no more racial or ethnic solidarity, on my part, with an Indian from Kolkata than an African from the Congo. That has nothing to do with being born in the West. It runs deeper than anything to do with geography.