Can a MONNA be a better SIKH than a Guy with TURBAN ?

[BhForce 1,194]

2 minutes ago, Amit12 said:

Does the Guru have any wisdom of his own?

yes 

If so, what ?

i dont think im worthy or capable of answering that and compile the whole wisdom in a mere 100 words.... Naah cant do that....

why should someone else follow the guru ? 

 idk why you asking me that, im not even promoting any guru.... 

Alright, bro, you just answered your own question.

I mean, if the Guru doesn't have any special wisdom (that you know of), and you can't state why anyone should even follow the Guru (i.e., be a Sikh), what point is there in asking who's a better Sikh?

I mean, there's no point (as far as you can state) to being a Sikh in the first place, so why worry about who's a better Sikh?

[jkvlondon 6,098]

1 hour ago, BhForce said:

Oh, sorry, I don't think I got the notification for that, for some reason.

Anyway, now we can continue the discussion:

But why "bani", specifically?

Why is that that Gurbani gives us "better perspective of how we should live our lives, how we see ourselves, and others... and How we see God.... and to know what is false, and what is good."

What's special about Gurbani?

because it is the unadulterated message written in the language of the common people , no secret coded languages , restriction of access to the message . It cuts to the chase and tells you exactly how to get out of lakh chaurasi joon instead of denying it, it makes explicit the value of everything and everyone  BY THE ONES WHO BROUGHT THE MESSAGE FROM SACH KHAND

[Amit12 55]

14 minutes ago, BhForce said:

Alright, bro, you just answered your own question.

I mean, if the Guru doesn't have any special wisdom (that you know of), and you can't state why anyone should even follow the Guru (i.e., be a Sikh), what point is there in asking who's a better Sikh?

I mean, there's no point (as far as you can state) to being a Sikh in the first place, so why worry about who's a better Sikh?

Lol, im not that good with words..

But........ okay  XD

[Amit12 55]

2 minutes ago, jkvlondon said:

because it is the unadulterated message written in the language of the common people , no secret coded languages , restriction of access to the message . It cuts to the chase and tells you exactly how to get out of lakh chaurasi joon instead of denying it, it makes explicit the value of everything and everyone  BY THE ONES WHO BROUGHT THE MESSAGE FROM SACH KHAND

Naah, he knows all of this.... He just wanted to hear it from me .....XD 

[BhForce 1,194]

1 minute ago, jkvlondon said:

because it is the unadulterated message written in the language of the common people , no secret coded languages , restriction of access to the message . It cuts to the chase and tells you exactly how to get out of lakh chaurasi joon instead of denying it, it makes explicit the value of everything and everyone  BY THE ONES WHO BROUGHT THE MESSAGE FROM SACH KHAND

Well, it's one thing for you to say that, it's another for him, and I got the answer from him, and that is that (as far as he can state), there's no special reason to follow the Guru.

As far what you wrote: I agree with your second sentence (that Gurbani was brought from Sachkhand).

But regarding the message being written in the language of the common people: The vast majority of the world's people don't speak Punjabi, read Gurmukhi, and even if they did, that's not the same thing as being able to understand the language of Gurbani.

So does that then negate your first sentence?

[jkvlondon 6,098]

1 minute ago, BhForce said:

Well, it's one thing for you to say that, it's another for him, and I got the answer from him, and that is that (as far as he can state), there's no special reason to follow the Guru.

As far what you wrote: I agree with your second sentence (that Gurbani was brought from Sachkhand).

But regarding the message being written in the language of the common people: The vast majority of the world's people don't speak Punjabi, read Gurmukhi, and even if they did, that's not the same thing as being able to understand the language of Gurbani.

So does that then negate your first sentence?

no because nobody knew arabic or sanskrit or latin or aramaic apart from priests .... at least the people of rajasthan , punjaab proper, hindi speaking regions , remember there are eight languages represented through gurmukhi in Guru ji

[BhForce 1,194]

17 minutes ago, jkvlondon said:

no because nobody knew arabic or sanskrit or latin or aramaic apart from priests .... at least the people of rajasthan , punjaab proper, hindi speaking regions , remember there are eight languages represented through gurmukhi in Guru ji

OK, what you're saying is Gurbani was written in a language understandable by common people of a certain time and place, not that it would always be so.

[RajKaregaKhalsa1 378]

3 minutes ago, BhForce said:

OK, what you're saying is Gurbani was written in a language understandable by common people of a certain time and place, not that it would always be so.

It was written in Gurmukh a script that was created by Dhan Dhan Guru Angad Dev ji. And it is made up of many languages like Sant Bhasa, Punjabi, Sanskrit, Persian and many more so it wasn't that easy to understand. But by doing this Guru gave us a lot of Bani to read and Gursikhs are campassionate and would have taught it to everyone for free and not just Brahmins or some rich Muslim guy. And it can be difficult to understand Bani, there are so many lagumatras like aunkar sihar that change meanings of words and it is so in depth that you could spend countless lifetimes trying to comprehend the knowledge but we would never succeed since Bani is Nirankar and beant

[jkvlondon 6,098]

24 minutes ago, BhForce said:

OK, what you're saying is Gurbani was written in a language understandable by common people of a certain time and place, not that it would always be so.

why not? over 150 million people speak punjabi and its increasing ... those who want to learn will make the effort because such jewels of wisdom are worth the miniscule effort . If Japanese and Chinese bibian can make the effort why not us their whole language is different .

[dallysingh101 3,541]

Being a polyglot was a good part of being a Khalsa Sikh if Guru Gobind SIngh ji's life is anything to go by.  What a lot of people don't understand is that on top of being awesome physical fighters, the Guru and his inner circle of Singhs also had a literacy level that was higher than the standard of top level political leaders of the time (hence all the Farsi writing in DG). They also widened the accessibility of Sikh literature and Gurbani (towards nonSikh Hindus I presume) by the heavy utilisation of Brij Bhasha, which was actually something also done by the nauvin padshah. They created Panjabi compositions too, like Chandhi ki Vaar. 

I think post-annexation, with all of its murky goings on and the persistent effort to use the most uneducated and vulnerable rural Sikhs of the time for imperialist purposes, led to current dumbed down situation where the languages used in our literature is mysterious to most of us.  

But don't cry pendus, dry your eyes, we can reverse this situation in a generation or two. 

Those original Singhs were cray. Proper head cracking killers and top level intellects too. That's another one of those unique things about Sikhi and its ithihaas. 

What we are seeing is dasmesh pita stretching Sikh intellects to the max on top of making them tough as heck fighters. He knew strength without intelligence is fudhoo. 

I think one of the things colonialism promoted (very successfully amongst pendus too!) was the notion that you should be happy to accept life on some farm or as a colonial soldier without questioning those foreigners dictating your life. They were sort of devious about it too, using Amrit vows which incorporated vows towards a foreign monarchy to bamboozle the desperate and simple.

[Singh559 2,656]

19 minutes ago, dallysingh101 said:

Being a polyglot was a good part of being a Khalsa Sikh if Guru Gobind SIngh ji's life is anything to go by.  What a lot of people don't understand is that on top of being awesome physical fighters, the Guru and his inner circle of Singhs also had a literacy level that was higher than the standard of top level political leaders of the time (hence all the Farsi writing in DG). They also widened the accessibility of Sikh literature and Gurbani (towards nonSikh Hindus I presume) by the heavy utilisation of Brij Bhasha, which was actually something also done by the nauvin padshah. They created Panjabi compositions too, like Chandhi ki Vaar. 

I think post-annexation, with all of its murky goings on and the persistent effort to use the most uneducated and vulnerable rural Sikhs of the time for imperialist purposes, led to current dumbed down situation where the languages used in our literature is mysterious to most of us.  

But don't cry pendus, dry your eyes, we can reverse this situation in a generation or two. 

Those original Singhs were cray. Proper head cracking killers and top level intellects too. That's another one of those unique things about Sikhi and its ithihaas. 

What we are seeing is dasmesh pita stretching Sikh intellects to the max on top of making them tough as heck fighters. He knew strength without intelligence is fudhoo. 

I think one of the things colonialism promoted (very successfully amongst pendus too!) was the notion that you should be happy to accept life on some farm or as a colonial soldier without questioning those foreigners dictating your life. They were sort of devious about it too, using Amrit vows which incorporated vows towards a foreign monarchy to bamboozle the desperate and simple.

Modernity sucks bro, how are we ever going to recreate Singhs of such high calibre? Think it's an impossible task to recreate the scenario that made Singhs in that specific context of that time, but what would the modern translation and equivalent be?

[jkvlondon 6,098]

1 minute ago, Singh559 said:

Modernity sucks bro, how are we ever going to recreate Singhs of such high calibre? Think it's an impossible task to recreate the scenario that made Singhs in that specific context of that time, but what would the modern translation and equivalent be?

start with getting our youth trained up in the languages of Guru Sahiban writings , steep them in the steeks of older vidhvans , and itihaasic  writings from sikh quarters , cross referencing with chroniclers from various quarters to create a depth of understanding of those times . Teach them strategy, politics both of ancient world and modern one, make them savvy , full of street smarts. Teach them the value of never being anyone's mug  and using training as a way to discipline mind to mission

[jkvlondon 6,098]

would using a system kind of like the kaida system of Ranjit Singh to learn languages and scripts work ? like giving out free materials , after the person learns they are asked to support 5 others learning after writing/making a further five learning pack copies ?

[dallysingh101 3,541]

27 minutes ago, Singh559 said:

Modernity sucks bro, how are we ever going to recreate Singhs of such high calibre? Think it's an impossible task to recreate the scenario that made Singhs in that specific context of that time, but what would the modern translation and equivalent be?

Modernity doesn't necessarily suck bro. It has its own energy and advantages, and we should utilise them. 

What we've got to do is steadily and incrementality increase a lifestyle which emphasises physical prowess/discipline and intelligence too. Maybe it isn't for everyone in the panth but we can strive to achieve a critical mass that would culturally influence things in the right direction (globally).

A contextual analysis of DG alone is (from my limited experience so far) seriously mind expanding for example. It's the physical training that I imagine would be more difficult to promote in these sedentary times?

[puzzled 4,078]

3 hours ago, BhForce said:

And that day will be averted by people who are concerned for the Panth and take steps to stop it. If we don't, then that day will come.

No one even used the word Punjabi. We were using the word Sikh.

You're talking like there's just a supply of women you can just go and buy at Tesco, and then when you bring them home, you can adjust the settings like on a TV to change the religion to "Sikh".

Exactly, bro!

That's what @AjeetSinghPunjabi and I are talking about. You talk about the issue, raise awareness, and tell people (like girls) about the greatness of Sikhism, and you avert the problem.

Why would you want to stand in the way of this and say "There's no problem!"?

 Also, if we can tell other people "the greatness of Sikhism", why can't we tell our own girls?

You need realize that many people actually chose not to follow religion, they just don't give a F, many females know about sikhi but chose to live alternative lifestyles. If someone chooses not to follow sikhi and chooses to marry moneh or whatever then there is nothing you can do. You telling me that Sikh females that drink, sleep around, party don't know that what they are doing is against Sikhi? off course they know its against Sikhi and what their parents taught them but they still chose to do that.not everyone believes in god, spirituality, commitment to faith ...   you cant just tell someone about sikhi and expect them to follow it. 

look im speaking from experience and iv never really had problems with girls, iv been asked out by non sikh females but obviously chose not to because i don't date. It really isn't that hard to get a girl friend lol