Natural order

[BhForce]

On 9/19/2019 at 2:31 PM, puzzled said:

A man's downfall is when he becomes a slaves to his senses     that's when a man becomes weak   he loses his dharma.

Guru ji says this, but we refuse to listen. Instead, we listen to Western feminists who have destroyed their own societies:

ਜੋਰਾ ਦਾ ਆਖਿਆ ਪੁਰਖ ਕਮਾਵਦੇ ਸੇ ਅਪਵਿਤ ਅਮੇਧ ਖਲਾ ॥The men, who act as women tell them, are impure filthy and foolish.
ਕਾਮਿ ਵਿਆਪੇ ਕੁਸੁਧ ਨਰ ਸੇ ਜੋਰਾ ਪੁਛਿ ਚਲਾ ॥
The impure men are engrossed in lust. They consult women and walk accordingly. p304

On 9/19/2019 at 2:31 PM, puzzled said:

Men should also keep secrets to themselves    sharing feelings and what's deep inside is also what weakens a man.   

It says that in the Rehitnamas: Don't tell the ਅੰਦਰਲਾ ਭੇਦ (internal secret) to ਇਸਤਰੀ (woman). 

But some of our Sikhs cope with that by saying that that just refers to female spies that were sent to get information from Sikh warriors.

It saying plainly to keep some things secret from women and yet we still do not want to obey.

[BhForce]

On 9/19/2019 at 2:23 PM, puzzled said:

it's no secret   brothers fall out with each other all the time because their wives keep filling their ears.   Funny how brothers get on really well before marriage but then after marriage it all changes. 

Bhai Gurdas ji says this regarding wives picking fights with father and mothers in-law, but the same kind of thing could apply to brothers-in-law.

ਨੁੰਹੁ ਨਿਤ ਮੰਤ ਕੁਮੰਤ ਦੇਇ ਮਾਂ ਪਿਓ ਛਡਿ ਵਡੇ ਹਤਿਆਰੇ।

The bride then started continuously advising the husband to desert his parents instigating that they had been tyrants.

ਵਖ ਹੋਵੈ ਪੁਤੁ ਰੰਨਿ ਲੈ ਮਾਂ ਪਿਉ ਦੇ ਉਪਕਾਰੁ ਵਿਸਾਰੇ।

Forgetting the benefactions of parents, the son alongwith his wife got separated from them.

Vaar 37, Pauri 12

[dallysingh101]

59 minutes ago, BhForce said:

Bhai Gurdas ji says this regarding wives picking fights with father and mothers in-law, but the same kind of thing could apply to brothers-in-law.

ਨੁੰਹੁ ਨਿਤ ਮੰਤ ਕੁਮੰਤ ਦੇਇ ਮਾਂ ਪਿਓ ਛਡਿ ਵਡੇ ਹਤਿਆਰੇ।

The bride then started continuously advising the husband to desert his parents instigating that they had been tyrants.

ਵਖ ਹੋਵੈ ਪੁਤੁ ਰੰਨਿ ਲੈ ਮਾਂ ਪਿਉ ਦੇ ਉਪਕਾਰੁ ਵਿਸਾਰੇ।

Forgetting the benefactions of parents, the son alongwith his wife got separated from them.

Vaar 37, Pauri 12

Does this mean that Sikhi doesn't acknowledge the potential for some in-laws to be malevolent?   Or parents being neglectful of their children?

[BhForce]

1 hour ago, dallysingh101 said:

Does this mean that Sikhi doesn't acknowledge the potential for some in-laws to be malevolent?   Or parents being neglectful of their children?

Well, I mean, come on, bro, we read of the evil father everyday in Rehras:

ਹਰਣਾਖਸੁ ਦੁਸਟੁ ਹਰਿ ਮਾਰਿਆ ਪ੍ਰਹਲਾਦੁ ਤਰਾਇਆ ॥
haranākhas dusat har māriā prahalād tarāiā .
The Lord killed wicked Harnakhsh and saved Prehlad.

Harnakash was a demonic father and Prehlad, his son, was a devout worshipper.

But the fact that Gurbani has both this verse and also those regarding parental respect:

ਕਾਹੇ ਪੂਤ ਝਗਰਤ ਹਉ ਸੰਗਿ ਬਾਪ ॥
kāhē pūt jhagarat hau sang bāp .
Why, O son, quarrel thou with thy father?

ਜਿਨ ਕੇ ਜਣੇ ਬਡੀਰੇ ਤੁਮ ਹਉ ਤਿਨ ਸਿਉ ਝਗਰਤ ਪਾਪ ॥੧॥ ਰਹਾਉ ॥
jin kē janē badīrē tum hau tin siu jhagarat pāp .1. rahāu .
It is a sin to quarrel with him who begot thee and brought thee up. p1200

means to me that we're encouraged to respect parents as a default, but don't do what they say if they speak against worshipping God.

I think what they Bhai Gurdas ji Vaar is saying is that son and bride are supposed to follow parents (in-laws) as a default. I know there are "bad" in-laws, but if it's just a case of two parties both wanting the "upper hand", then the bride is in the wrong. She's supposed to live with and follow the in-laws (unless they are actually demonic).

It would be highly rare for in-laws to be just picking fights for the sheer pleasure of it.

Anyways, that's what the texts say.

I know there are problematic situations, but the West has totally destroyed itself making the exception the rule.

[dallysingh101]

On 6/16/2023 at 1:15 AM, BhForce said:

I know there are "bad" in-laws, but if it's just a case of two parties both wanting the "upper hand", then the bride is in the wrong. She's supposed to live with and follow the in-laws (unless they are actually demonic).

It would be highly rare for in-laws to be just picking fights for the sheer pleasure of it.

Anyways, that's what the texts say.

I know there are problematic situations, but the West has totally destroyed itself making the exception the rule.

To me, it looks like we are only now increasingly realising how prevalent mental conditions such as sociopathy and NPD can be in societies. 

This can actually possibly help us understand some of the familial conflicts we see amongst apnay. 

[dallysingh101]

20 hours ago, BhForce said:

It says that in the Rehitnamas: Don't tell the ਅੰਦਰਲਾ ਭੇਦ (internal secret) to ਇਸਤਰੀ (woman). 

But some of our Sikhs cope with that by saying that that just refers to female spies that were sent to get information from Sikh warriors.

It saying plainly to keep some things secret from women and yet we still do not want to obey.

Women love a 'mysterious man' - could be this? Also, some women are famous for getting bored with blokes quickly, so keeping a part of yourself back could be advantageous.