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On 9/18/2019 at 8:59 PM, Ranjeet01 said:

A woman will sacrifice her life for her children but never for her husband. A man will sacrifice for both.

Women who take leadership from her husband do it because they are forced into it or because the man is not up to it and the woman becomes resentful of her husband. 

not to detract from you point (i understand what you are trying to say), but i don't think the above two are correct.

for the first point- i think there have been women who have sacrificed their lives for their husbands.  e.g. rajput queens commiting sati rather then marry an invading general.

for the second- the woman may have better intellect or else a stronger drive to take charge.  e.g. magaret thatcher (bad example in that she wasnt a good person but it illustrates the point).

 

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The problem is we get everything muddled up. Of course Guru ji is not discriminating, but he is also very real with us. There is nothing politically correct about Guru ji. Bani mentions men

Very misguided, both the man and the woman are at the bottom of a triangle and through Sikhi you both walk the same path to Waheguru,  you tell mia bhago ji that she gets led around by a man.

pati parmeshwar is hindu concept , based in idea that a woman cannot get mukhti in her lifetime , only  if she does sewa of her husband her whole life then she will receive birth as a man then be able

22 hours ago, Redoptics said:

Remember also  everyone is the soul bride of Waheguru Ji 

see you are confusing a spiritual truth with a social issue.  e.g.  being a 'spiritual bride' doesnt mean you are going to start acting like a woman, are you?

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On 9/19/2019 at 2:31 PM, Guest guest said:

are you comparing regular children to them?

would you compare yourself to Guru Gobind Singh Ji?

Hold on your horses brother..
Guru sahib jee lived the life in 10 human forms to show manmukhs like me to live the exact way he lived.
Age does not matter. Whether is it our sahibzaaday, guru sahib or baba deep singh ji, age is just external noise for us humans. 
Waiting for your reply without involving of Knee Jerk reactions

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On 9/19/2019 at 10:39 PM, Guest guest said:

not to detract from you point (i understand what you are trying to say), but i don't think the above two are correct.

for the first point- i think there have been women who have sacrificed their lives for their husbands.  e.g. rajput queens commiting sati rather then marry an invading general.

for the second- the woman may have better intellect or else a stronger drive to take charge.  e.g. magaret thatcher (bad example in that she wasnt a good person but it illustrates the point).

 

Your first point the sati point is that they did not want to be taken by the invader. The husband is already dead so they aren't really sacrificing their life for their husband. They are actually sacrificing themselves for their own honour and reputation than their own husbands.

The second point is the exception rather than the rule. We have a tendency to see traits exhibited by 1 in 1000 women and somehow think that is how all women are. The reality is somewhat different. 

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On 9/21/2019 at 1:02 AM, S1ngh said:

Hold on your horses brother..
Guru sahib jee lived the life in 10 human forms to show manmukhs like me to live the exact way he lived.
Age does not matter. Whether is it our sahibzaaday, guru sahib or baba deep singh ji, age is just external noise for us humans. 
Waiting for your reply without involving of Knee <banned word filter activated> reactions

you point seems every confused.

what are you saying?  you plan to *imitate* Guru Nanak or Guru Gobind Singh?  You go around comparing yourself to Guru Gobind Singh everyday?  i think you have got confused some where.  you arent supposed to copy them. who gave you this idea?  

You think Guru Harikrishan was a regular child?  You think finding some random child and making them your leader is going to have the same effect?

typical of most confused sikhs, you talk in generalisations.  

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as someone stated above, Sikhi has dharma as a basis. and a woman upon her marriage was always taught to see/treat her husband as God. the concept is known as pati parmashaur. It is still seen as a legitimate concept in some sects of Sikhi, ie Taksal.

There is even a Sakhi that goes with it.

A women used to come everyday to do seva of building one of the sarovers during Guruji times. She would often pause and start pushing at nothing. People complained about her strange behavior to Guru Sahib. And when questioned she answered, that she is pushing the cradle of her baby who is about to start crying. that she actually lives very far away. It would take longer than a day to travel back and forth and she used ridhia/ spiritual powers to travel fast to come do seva. Bascially, she could teleport. And when asked how did she get these powers. She said from doing seva of my husband. And today, there is a bazaar/mall in Amritsar named after her: Mai Seva Bazaar. 

 

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On 9/25/2019 at 8:22 PM, Not2Cool2Argue said:

as someone stated above, Sikhi has dharma as a basis. and a woman upon her marriage was always taught to see/treat her husband as God. the concept is known as pati parmashaur. It is still seen as a legitimate concept in some sects of Sikhi, ie Taksal.

There is even a Sakhi that goes with it.

A women used to come everyday to do seva of building one of the sarovers during Guruji times. She would often pause and start pushing at nothing. People complained about her strange behavior to Guru Sahib. And when questioned she answered, that she is pushing the cradle of her baby who is about to start crying. that she actually lives very far away. It would take longer than a day to travel back and forth and she used ridhia/ spiritual powers to travel fast to come do seva. Bascially, she could teleport. And when asked how did she get these powers. She said from doing seva of my husband. And today, there is a bazaar/mall in Amritsar named after her: Mai Seva Bazaar. 

 

pati parmeshwar is hindu concept , based in idea that a woman cannot get mukhti in her lifetime , only  if she does sewa of her husband her whole life then she will receive birth as a man then be able to earn mukhti . Sikhi we are taught to love and respect our husband as we love ourselves and to consider his sewa and his familiy's sewa as we would doing sewa of gursikhs (of course that may not be true in reality if they are monay) . Gur kirpa can and will happen irrespective of gender when we are ready to receive , women can be jiwan mukht too.

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On 9/19/2019 at 10:39 PM, Guest guest said:

not to detract from you point (i understand what you are trying to say), but i don't think the above two are correct.

for the first point- i think there have been women who have sacrificed their lives for their husbands.  e.g. rajput queens commiting sati rather then marry an invading general.

for the second- the woman may have better intellect or else a stronger drive to take charge.  e.g. magaret thatcher (bad example in that she wasnt a good person but it illustrates the point).

 

Why are you all weird? The man does look out for his family,  but if he goes down the woman does the same thing,  this is how Singh's and Kaurs behave 

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Men and women are Equal. 

I know a lot of women, myself included, who have been badly abused by men and who stand up in their own two feet without a man. 

 

Therefore, women are no lower than a man and can support themselves and be independant of men. 

 

To to think otherwise is an extremely sexist sentiment. 

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On 9/23/2019 at 5:42 PM, Guest guest said:

you point seems every confused.

what are you saying?  you plan to *imitate* Guru Nanak or Guru Gobind Singh?  You go around comparing yourself to Guru Gobind Singh everyday?  i think you have got confused some where.  you arent supposed to copy them. who gave you this idea?  

You think Guru Harikrishan was a regular child?  You think finding some random child and making them your leader is going to have the same effect?

typical of most confused sikhs, you talk in generalisations.  

🙄 

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On 9/28/2019 at 4:11 AM, Guest Sat said:

Men and women are Equal. 

I know a lot of women, myself included, who have been badly abused by men and who stand up in their own two feet without a man. 

 

Therefore, women are no lower than a man and can support themselves and be independant of men. 

 

To to think otherwise is an extremely sexist sentiment. 

2

We are talking more about how women and men should function in society especially a religious one. Individually, ofc anyone can do anything. In society and religion, there are roles. And it makes sense to divide them up based on biological realities that men are generally stronger than women. Women are generally more nurturing etc. 

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On 9/17/2019 at 4:16 PM, puzzled said:

In Dasam bani Guru Gobind Singh ji says something similar.  Heres a video of kalki avtaar, at 4:01 in the video  Guru Gobind Singh ji says how men will come under their wifes control.

I would take this as they are falling prey to their desires and wouldn't take as literally. Obviously gurbani has a lot of layers and I am open to hearing different points of view. 

 

As for the original topic the parents are the head of the house

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11 minutes ago, intrigued said:

I would take this as they are falling prey to their desires and wouldn't take as literally. Obviously gurbani has a lot of layers and I am open to hearing different points of view. 

 

As for the original topic the parents are the head of the house

I take Kalki Avtaar bani literally, because the things described in it, as frightful as they are, are actually happening now.

For example, Kalki Avtaar talks about incestuous relationships between siblings, and parent and children, how would you interpret that?   because those sickening relationships are actually happening.

As for the wife controlling men, and men forgetting their parents and running around after their wives,  well, that's happening everywhere  lol  

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14 minutes ago, puzzled said:

I take Kalki Avtaar bani literally, because the things described in it, as frightful as they are, are actually happening now.

For example, Kalki Avtaar talks about incestuous relationships between siblings, and parent and children, how would you interpret that?   because those sickening relationships are actually happening.

As for the wife controlling men, and men forgetting their parents and running around after their wives,  well, that's happening everywhere  lol  

Hmm...ur right abt the stuff thats happening being described. But Guru Sahib wasn't discriminatory so how do we interpret this?

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Just now, intrigued said:

Hmm...ur right abt the stuff thats happening being described. But Guru Sahib wasn't discriminatory so how do we interpret this?

The problem is we get everything muddled up.

Of course Guru ji is not discriminating, but he is also very real with us. There is nothing politically correct about Guru ji.

Bani mentions men peaking through windows and looking at the wives of other men, why?  because men do that!  They did that centuries ago, and they still do it.  But does guru ji love all men, of course he does.

Guru ji gives a lot of respect to women in bani, but, do women cause problems in families, yes!  but does Guru ji still love them? yes he does. 

Guru ji is very real.

Bani calls men every name under the sun, but we don't have a problem with that.

The reason we thinks its discrimination when Guru ji says men will forget their parents and follow their wives around is because we live in the politically correct west, where its illegal to say anything against women, but its fine to say anything about men.

We need to stop seeing it like this.

There is nothing discriminating about Guru ji saying that men will forget their parents and follow their wives instead, its a fact, that's why guru ji said it. Look at how many Punjabi families break apart because the women are constantly squabbling.  

If we start analysing Sikhi through the western politically correct model then a lot of things will appear wrong and outdated.

 

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