babur opinion on hindustan

[puzzled]

he didnt seem to like south asia very much, i guess it was his temptation for the wealth india offered that made him stay. even his tomb is in afghanistan

“Hindustan is a place of little charm. There is no beauty in its people, no graceful social intercourse, no poetic talent or understanding, no etiquette, nobility or manliness. The arts and crafts have no harmony or symmetry. There are no good horses, meat, grapes, melons or other fruit. There is no ice, cold water, good food or bread in the markets. There are no baths and no schools. There are no candles, torches or even candlesticks.”

his view on indian farming

“In Agra, Chandawar and Bayana they irrigate by means of the bucket. This is a laborious and filthy method. A forked stick is raised next to a well and across the fork a pulley is fastened. A large bucket is tied to a long rope, which is thrown over the pulley. One end of the rope is tied to an ox. It takes one person to lead the ox and another to empty the water from the bucket. Every time the ox is led out to pull up the bucket and then led back, the rope is dragged through the ox’s path, which is sullied by ox urine and dung, and then falls back into the well. For some types of agriculture that need irrigation, water is carried in jars by men and women.” 

 

[MisterrSingh]

26 minutes ago, puzzled said:

he didnt seem to like south asia very much, i guess it was his temptation for the wealth india offered that made him stay. even his tomb is in afghanistan

“Hindustan is a place of little charm. There is no beauty in its people, no graceful social intercourse, no poetic talent or understanding, no etiquette, nobility or manliness. The arts and crafts have no harmony or symmetry. There are no good horses, meat, grapes, melons or other fruit. There is no ice, cold water, good food or bread in the markets. There are no baths and no schools. There are no candles, torches or even candlesticks.

I find that hard to believe. Punjab itself had some of the greatest poets and thinkers in the continent for many hundreds of years. Where was he staying, lmao? 

[Ranjeet01]

39 minutes ago, puzzled said:

he didnt seem to like south asia very much, i guess it was his temptation for the wealth india offered that made him stay. even his tomb is in afghanistan

“Hindustan is a place of little charm. There is no beauty in its people, no graceful social intercourse, no poetic talent or understanding, no etiquette, nobility or manliness. The arts and crafts have no harmony or symmetry. There are no good horses, meat, grapes, melons or other fruit. There is no ice, cold water, good food or bread in the markets. There are no baths and no schools. There are no candles, torches or even candlesticks.”

his view on indian farming

“In Agra, Chandawar and Bayana they irrigate by means of the bucket. This is a laborious and filthy method. A forked stick is raised next to a well and across the fork a pulley is fastened. A large bucket is tied to a long rope, which is thrown over the pulley. One end of the rope is tied to an ox. It takes one person to lead the ox and another to empty the water from the bucket. Every time the ox is led out to pull up the bucket and then led back, the rope is dragged through the ox’s path, which is sullied by ox urine and dung, and then falls back into the well. For some types of agriculture that need irrigation, water is carried in jars by men and women.” 

 

I think him being from Uzbekistan which was heavily persianized at the time probably had some influence on him.

I know that he hated the climate. 

 

[MisterrSingh]

1 hour ago, Ranjeet01 said:

I know that he hated the climate. 

I can't blame him on that one.

[puzzled]

1 hour ago, MisterrSingh said:

I find that hard to believe. Punjab itself had some of the greatest poets and thinkers in the continent for many hundreds of years. Where was he staying, lmao? 

I don't know much about Punjab during his era. But i guess south asia was far more populated and busy than where he came from. India in general is dusty ,earthy and rustic and the humidity dont help lol, And as for the people the vast majority have always been rural people and he probably came across the naked yogis and sadhus, gypsies, people with tattoos and piercings, poverty. in those days there were a lot of tribal people as well. 1000s of different clans with different customs and traditions. he probably never seen anything like it.   

   

[puzzled]

Guru Nanak Dev ji calls Babur a dog

 

ਰਤਨ ਵਿਗਾੜਿ ਵਿਗੋਏ ਕੁਤੀ ਮੁਇਆ ਸਾਰ ਨ ਕਾਈ ॥

Rathan Vigaarr Vigoeae Kuthanaee Mueiaa Saar N Kaaee ||

This priceless country has been laid waste and defiled by dogs, and no one pays any attention to the dead.

ਆਸਾ (ਮਃ ੧) (੩੯) ੨:੨ - ਗੁਰੂ ਗ੍ਰੰਥ ਸਾਹਿਬ : ਅੰਗ ੩੬੦ ਪੰ. ੧੪
Raag Asa Guru Nanak Dev

 

 

[MisterrSingh]

19 minutes ago, puzzled said:

I don't know much about Punjab during his era. But i guess south asia was far more populated and busy than where he came from. India in general is dusty ,earthy and rustic and the humidity dont help lol, And as for the people the vast majority have always been rural people and he probably came across the naked yogis and sadhus, gypsies, people with tattoos and piercings, poverty. in those days there were a lot of tribal people as well. 1000s of different clans with different customs and traditions. he probably never seen anything like it.   

   

I wasn't knocking you, I was saying how he seemed to have judged the entire country based on, I'm presuming, his experience of one particular part of it. 

[puzzled]

Guru Nanak says that god himself sent the mughals as the messenger of death.  Was that because people of india had forgotten god? i guess god sent them as some kind of punishment 

ਖੁਰਾਸਾਨ ਖਸਮਾਨਾ ਕੀਆ ਹਿੰਦੁਸਤਾਨੁ ਡਰਾਇਆ ॥

Khuraasaan Khasamaanaa Keeaa Hindhusathaan Ddaraaeiaa ||

Having attacked Khuraasaan, Baabar terrified Hindustan.

ਆਸਾ (ਮਃ ੧) (੩੯) ੧:੧ - ਗੁਰੂ ਗ੍ਰੰਥ ਸਾਹਿਬ : ਅੰਗ ੩੬੦ ਪੰ. ੧੨
Raag Asa Guru Nanak Dev

ਆਪੈ ਦੋਸੁ ਨ ਦੇਈ ਕਰਤਾ ਜਮੁ ਕਰਿ ਮੁਗਲੁ ਚੜਾਇਆ ॥

Aapai Dhos N Dhaeee Karathaa Jam Kar Mugal Charraaeiaa ||

The Creator Himself does not take the blame, but has sent the Mugal as the messenger of death.

ਆਸਾ (ਮਃ ੧) (੩੯) ੧:੨ - ਗੁਰੂ ਗ੍ਰੰਥ ਸਾਹਿਬ : ਅੰਗ ੩੬੦ ਪੰ. ੧੨
Raag Asa Guru Nanak Dev

ਏਤੀ ਮਾਰ ਪਈ ਕਰਲਾਣੇ ਤੈਂ ਕੀ ਦਰਦੁ ਨ ਆਇਆ ॥੧॥

Eaethee Maar Pee Karalaanae Thain Kee Dharadh N Aaeiaa ||1||

There was so much slaughter that the people screamed. Didn't You feel compassion, Lord? ||1||

ਆਸਾ (ਮਃ ੧) (੩੯) ੧:੩ - ਗੁਰੂ ਗ੍ਰੰਥ ਸਾਹਿਬ : ਅੰਗ ੩੬੦ ਪੰ. ੧੨
Raag Asa Guru Nanak Dev

 

[puzzled]

3 minutes ago, MisterrSingh said:

I wasn't knocking you, I was saying how he seemed to have judged the entire country based on, I'm presuming, his experience of one particular part of it. 

lol i didn't think you were,  i think baburs empire only spread up to parts of central india  

[Not2Cool2Argue]

5 hours ago, MisterrSingh said:

I find that hard to believe. Punjab itself had some of the greatest poets and thinkers in the continent for many hundreds of years. Where was he staying, lmao? 

Agra and those areas are central india.

Panjab itself has been heavily influenced by the persians. What with folk tales like laila majnu. Totally persian. And then sufi poetry like bulleh shah also has a bit of islamic influence.

Also babar is first of the mughal rulers. So all the nice architecture like laal killah in delhi etc was notnyet built. The mughals would introduce water gardens etc.

However it is funny coming from Babbar as he was from the nomadic mongol tribes that live in a boring flatlands and tents. With no soil worthy of farming and deserts and freezing cold.

But then again, the mongols ruled in persia for 500 years and thats how they learnt persian and introduced it to india instead of their mongolian language. So i guess he got used to opulence