Why was Jathedar Baba Sahib Singh ji Kicked Out?

[dharamyudh]

1 hour ago, proactive said:

I see what you are saying but we have to look at the larger picture. Santa Singh and the Nanaksari Babas went against the ENTIRE Panth when they took part in the Kar Sewa. It's was not a small thing. At a time when the Panth needed unity they acted as the chumchay of Indira Gandhi and divided us and for that their crime is unforgivable. No amount of he did so much sewa blah blah blah will cut it. 

You claim that the last time Budha Dal had unity was under Santa Singh. Have you even considered that the actions of Santa Singh by becoming a chumcha of political parties such as the Congress allowed other parties like Akali Dal to also play one faction against another and now you have the fruits of what Sant Singh planted in his life. It's quite ironic that the person who divided the Panth in 1984, his legacy now is that the Budha Dal is in tatters. 

I don't agree with your assessment that a lot of people still did not know the truth about Santji after Bluestar. The only ones who were against him were the Congressi, the Comrades, the cultist Nirankaris and the Hindu extremists. You can decide which one of these groups  the people you know who lived through that period and held negative views about Santji fit into. The common Sikhs were never against Santji.

 

That's your opinion man. You're entitled to it. I personally think the decision made at the 1986 Sarbat Khalsa, who had the likes of famous Kharkus and Sants, alongside plenty of gadaars who made the decision to destroy Sri Akal Takht Sahib from foundations and throw their bricks into the river Satlej was pretty unforgivable as well. But this was dubbed a chardikala moment in Sikh history unfortunately by the dominant voice of Sikhs today. However, like you mentioned earlier you also didn't agree with the desecration of the Takht. But, we can apply your thinking to the currently modern day Taksal and how the destruction of Akal Takht has caused the state that they are in today, which isn't looking so great at the moment and is currently facing the same outside influences. It's a silly argument veerji. As mentioned earlier, only thing we can do is agree to disagree because of how polarization our beliefs are.  

And no man, most average, working folk in the Panjab didn't even know what was going on. The people I am talking about were normal Sikh peasant  farmers. I even have family members who didn't even know what the Dharam Yudh Morcha was. But we could also consider this may have been a regional thing as well as Majha was more in the middle of things during this time. 

[dharamyudh]

Let me fix this actually, because I don't know what every single person of Panjab was thinking. From my personal experience, from speaking with elders, they had no idea what was going on until after the attack and until years later. These are regular, Sikh village folks who lived their day to day lives. I can only go off of what people have told me. However, this notion that Panjab all had this uniform thinking about what was going on isn't the whole truth. This is a better way to phrase it. 

[dharamyudh]

28 minutes ago, GurjantGnostic said:

Nirankaris are disbanded right?

Nirankaris are still around bro. I actually seen their dera here in Canada oddly enough. 

[GurjantGnostic]

Just now, dharamyudh said:

Nirankaris are still around bro. I actually seen their dera here in Canada oddly enough. 

Gahhhh. Thank you. 

[Jassu]

1 hour ago, dharamyudh said:

Let me fix this actually, because I don't know what every single person of Panjab was thinking. From my personal experience, from speaking with elders, they had no idea what was going on until after the attack and until years later. These are regular, Sikh village folks who lived their day to day lives. I can only go off of what people have told me. However, this notion that Panjab all had this uniform thinking about what was going on isn't the whole truth. This is a better way to phrase it. 

This is true. My mother was around 14 that time (1984) and she lived in a pind right next to Bhindran Kala, she said that at that time not many people were completely aware, even the older folk. She even saw Sant Ji once but he was always surrounded by a large group of bodyguards.

[NaamTiharoJoJape]

7 hours ago, dharamyudh said:

Nirankaris are still around bro. I actually seen their dera here in Canada oddly enough. 

the son of the <banned word filter activated> hardev was killed in a car accident in canada if I remember correctly 

[NaamTiharoJoJape]

7 hours ago, dharamyudh said:

Let me fix this actually, because I don't know what every single person of Panjab was thinking. From my personal experience, from speaking with elders, they had no idea what was going on until after the attack and until years later. These are regular, Sikh village folks who lived their day to day lives. I can only go off of what people have told me. However, this notion that Panjab all had this uniform thinking about what was going on isn't the whole truth. This is a better way to phrase it. 

exactly, unless you were close to Taksal or an Amritdhari sikh, chances were you would be unaware

not everyone could just tune in to sant jis speeches or katha on the doordarshan channel and find out what was going on so majority of even the sikhs blindly followed the "moderate" Akalis (it was only during peak of Kharku lehar in punjab that some rural areas like that of tarn taran became majority supporters of the kharkkus)

[NaamTiharoJoJape]

14 hours ago, dharamyudh said:

Yeah, I mean you can really see this now especially with the split in Budha Dal. Last time it really was a unified unit was under Baba Santa Singh Ji.  The SGPC and Badals propagated Balbir Singh to take the jathedari. 

Balbir Singh and Badals.

 

It seems like all the real ones get taken out. I mean these guys were responsible for getting Baba Surjit Singh Ji arrested where he eventually passed away because of it, and later Baba Bahadur Singh Ji who was a straight Jangi Jarnail man. 

and Jathedar Baba Prem Singh ji did akaal chalana in a "car accident" 

[proactive]

4 hours ago, NaamTiharoJoJape said:

exactly, unless you were close to Taksal or an Amritdhari sikh, chances were you would be unaware

not everyone could just tune in to sant jis speeches or katha on the doordarshan channel and find out what was going on so majority of even the sikhs blindly followed the "moderate" Akalis (it was only during peak of Kharku lehar in punjab that some rural areas like that of tarn taran became majority supporters of the kharkkus)

You don't know what you are talking about. Just because her mother who was 14 didn't know about Santji doesn't mean that most or even a vast minority of Sikhs were unaware of what was going on. Santji had been in the news for over 3 years by 1984 and in 1981 an aircraft had been hijacked to demand is release. You kids think that Bluestar came out of nowhere. What was happening in Punjab was being reported across India and even abroad and yet the Sikhs in villages a few miles from Rode or Chowk Mehta didn't know what was going on. You do know that before social media and the internet people did know what was happening in the state as well as across the world.  You seem to think that the Sikhs were just wearing blinkers for the few years before 1984 and did not see the rise in the paramilitary forces in Punjab and the daily harassment they faced from the CRPF in Punjab. 

 

[Jassu]

28 minutes ago, proactive said:

You don't know what you are talking about. Just because her mother who was 14 didn't know about Santji doesn't mean that most or even a vast minority of Sikhs were unaware of what was going on. Santji had been in the news for over 3 years by 1984 and in 1981 an aircraft had been hijacked to demand is release. You kids think that Bluestar came out of nowhere. What was happening in Punjab was being reported across India and even abroad and yet the Sikhs in villages a few miles from Rode or Chowk Mehta didn't know what was going on. You do know that before social media and the internet people did know what was happening in the state as well as across the world.  You seem to think that the Sikhs were just wearing blinkers for the few years before 1984 and did not see the rise in the paramilitary forces in Punjab and the daily harassment they faced from the CRPF in Punjab. 

 

No one is saying that the majority of Sikhs were blind or impervious (or did not care) but the vast majority did not know the full extent of what was going on unlike we do today. It’s similar to how nearly most if not all Sikhs were not aware of the full effects and numbers of the 1984 genocide until years later. I once saw a video about the aftermath of 1984 (from western sources) and the Sikhs helping the wounded in the video were small in numbers and looked confused af. Their answers were weird when they were questioned. I’ll try to find it. I refuse to believe that the vast majority of Sikh youth and adult men would not be entirely swayed by the teachings of Sant Ji if they truly kept in tune with everything. I believe there could have been an entire state wide revolution and we would have more luck achieving our resolutions. I would not be surprised if a lot of the people at the time simply lived their pind life and did not keep in touch as much. Knowing mothers they would probably tell their sons to stay out of trouble and lay low. I know it’s a film and not completely accurate/fictitious, but in Punjab 1984, Diljit and his mother knew there were bad times about but only after someone they loved was directly impacted, did they properly tune in. They were living their normal lives before then.