Which spiritual literature is better? Persian or vedic

[shastarSingh 697]

Though vedic literature possesses difficult and complex thoughts, Persian spiritual  literature is better as it has more fear, love and faith on God.

What does the sangat think?

It is sad that Damdami Taksal has become hinduized with the influence of nirmalas. Students there read lots of vedic literature but very less Persian literature.

[intrigued 454]

I think each is to their own and that both are good to study. I don't really think that Damdami taksal is hinduized as much as we think though.

[shastarSingh 697]

46 minutes ago, intrigued said:

that both are good to study

All taksali students shud be fluent in Farsi so that they can better understand Zafarnama, Hikayats and bhai Nand Lal ji s bani.

They shud be able to read spiritual Persian literature and increase their gyaan.

Is that the case? No

Baba Deep Singh ji was master of Farsi and Arabic.

Baba Deep Singh ji, first jathedar of damdami taksal wrote a sarup of Guru Granth Sahib ji in Arabic script. Dasmesh Pita instructed Baba Deep Singh ji to teach Bhai Nand Lal ji s zindagi nama to fellow Sikhs.

Taksal's teaching curriculum has been hinduized by nirmalas.

 

[Suchi 124]

45 minutes ago, shastarSingh said:

All taksali students shud be fluent in Farsi so that they can better understand Zafarnama, Hikayats and bhai Nand Lal ji s bani.

They shud be able to read spiritual Persian literature and increase their gyaan.

Is that the case? No

 

It doesn't stop anyone from learning Farsi if they want to understand their scriptures properly.

[Jai Tegang! 217]

They all need to be studied but the focus should remain on Sanatan literature because that’s what Sikhi has greatest affinity to. Karma theory, Trimurti, Maya, Nirgun Sargun, Yug theory, Bhagti, plus the numerous references to Ram, Krishna, Prahlad, Dhru, other Bhagats, Janak, etc. You can’t deny it and shift the focus towards traditions who don’t even know about us, lol. Ever hear about persians studying Gurmukhi?

Persian was the court language from Mughals onwards and it explains its continued use into Ranjit Singhs time. Same as how English is for us now. It does not mean we shift our historical religious study towards anglo-saxon christian literature.

Study everything, but don’t start relying on the traditions of others to find meaning in our own. Taksal and other sampardas have done well in the past with their relative resources. We just need to invest in them more to expand their curriculum to the level we see in Abrahamic faiths. It requires vastly more funding to establish research and learning with support for scholars. Currently we don’t want anything beyond the low-wage gyani or Granthi Singh.

[NaamTiharoJoJape 84]

30 minutes ago, Jai Tegang! said:

They all need to be studied but the focus should remain on Sanatan literature because that’s what Sikhi has greatest affinity to. Karma theory, Trimurti, Maya, Nirgun Sargun, Yug theory, Bhagti, plus the numerous references to Ram, Krishna, Prahlad, Dhru, other Bhagats, Janak, etc. You can’t deny it and shift the focus towards traditions who don’t even know about us, lol. Ever hear about persians studying Gurmukhi?

Persian was the court language from Mughals onwards and it explains its continued use into Ranjit Singhs time. Same as how English is for us now. It does not mean we shift our historical religious study towards anglo-saxon christian literature.

Study everything, but don’t start relying on the traditions of others to find meaning in our own. Taksal and other sampardas have done well in the past with their relative resources. We just need to invest in them more to expand their curriculum to the level we see in Abrahamic faiths. It requires vastly more funding to establish research and learning with support for scholars. Currently we don’t want anything beyond the low-wage gyani or Granthi Singh.

agreed, sikhi is much further away from Islam than from Vedic civilization/sanatan dharam or whatever they call it nowadays 

plus, they also possess the concept of a paarbrahm that all must connect to and the purpose of our lives is to eventually merge, (although they have become much more worldly and temporal, going as far as to name kaam as one of four padaratha of life along with moksha, and also restrict the ability to merge to only brahmins) 

hindus are far more capable of understanding sikhi than thosse from abrahamic mats

[NaamTiharoJoJape 84]

9 hours ago, shastarSingh said:

All taksali students shud be fluent in Farsi so that they can better understand Zafarnama, Hikayats and bhai Nand Lal ji s bani.

They shud be able to read spiritual Persian literature and increase their gyaan.

Is that the case? No

Baba Deep Singh ji was master of Farsi and Arabic.

Baba Deep Singh ji, first jathedar of damdami taksal wrote a sarup of Guru Granth Sahib ji in Arabic script. Dasmesh Pita instructed Baba Deep Singh ji to teach Bhai Nand Lal ji s zindagi nama to fellow Sikhs.

Taksal's teaching curriculum has been hinduized by nirmalas.

 

you are also correct

one who studies SGGS or SDGS would already be pretty educated in vedic mat as Guru sahiban have discussed them extensively in shabad da bhandaar

I kind of don't get your comments on the Taksal if you can elaborate more, when do you think the Taksal was hijacked by Nirmalas, I would say influenced a bit but I don't think too far, plus aren't some commonly referenced  scholars Nirmala influenced Kavi Santokh Singh and many more teachers of those involved in singh sabha movement and sant samaj etc. 

plus what we say about Nirmalas, they repeat the same about our understanding of sikhi being "talibanized", where does this stop?

[intrigued 454]

30 minutes ago, NaamTiharoJoJape said:

plus what we say about Nirmalas, they repeat the same about our understanding of sikhi being "talibanized", where does this stop?

Yea it goes both ways, to them we have the false Sikhi

[NaamTiharoJoJape 84]

4 hours ago, intrigued said:

Yea it goes both ways, to them we have the false Sikhi

alienating or villainizing these unorthodox sects doesn't seem like the answer

more vichaardhara between schools of thought is needed (usefull discourse, not just bickering over authenticity of every historical document for years before moving on to next divisive topic)

[shastarSingh 697]

9 hours ago, NaamTiharoJoJape said:

kind of don't get your comments on the Taksal if you can elaborate more

One of taksal jathedar, I think someone before Sant Sunder Singh Bhindranwale was a nirmala and changed the curriculum.

[shastarSingh 697]

10 hours ago, Jai Tegang! said:

They all need to be studied but the focus should remain on Sanatan literature because that’s what Sikhi has greatest affinity to. Karma theory, Trimurti, Maya, Nirgun Sargun, Yug theory, Bhagti, plus the numerous references to Ram, Krishna, Prahlad, Dhru, other Bhagats, Janak, et

Why Gurbani says that spiritually hindu is blind and Muslim has one eye?

Why puratan brahmgyani gursikh scholars like Baba Deep Singh ji and Baba Gurbaksh Singh ji were master's of Farsi and Arabic. They must hv read lots of Farsi Arabic literature as part of their education.

Guru Sahib quoted Persian poet ferdowsi in Zafarnama.

Guru Sahib got Persian Granth kimia saadat into gurmukhi from pir budhu Shah.

Isn't the above evidence not enough for us to understand that our gursikh students shud learn farsi and read farsi spiritual literature.

 

[GurjantGnostic 1,087]

2 hours ago, shastarSingh said:

Why Gurbani says that spiritually hindu is blind and Muslim has one eye?

Why puratan brahmgyani gursikh scholars like Baba Deep Singh ji and Baba Gurbaksh Singh ji were master's of Farsi and Arabic. They must hv read lots of Farsi Arabic literature as part of their education.

Guru Sahib quoted Persian poet ferdowsi in Zafarnama.

Guru Sahib got Persian Granth kimia saadat into gurmukhi from pir budhu Shah.

Isn't the above evidence not enough for us to understand that our gursikh students shud learn farsi and read farsi spiritual literature.

 

Gurmat sources are the "core curriculum". The Guru Sahiban encouraged being well studied period. Something like Farsi and the related spiritual writings definitely qualify as worthy just not required. 

Islam has two tenets that earn it that eye. Naam and Hukam. 

[NaamTiharoJoJape 84]

4 hours ago, shastarSingh said:

Why Gurbani says that spiritually hindu is blind and Muslim has one eye?

Why puratan brahmgyani gursikh scholars like Baba Deep Singh ji and Baba Gurbaksh Singh ji were master's of Farsi and Arabic. They must hv read lots of Farsi Arabic literature as part of their education.

Guru Sahib quoted Persian poet ferdowsi in Zafarnama.

Guru Sahib got Persian Granth kimia saadat into gurmukhi from pir budhu Shah.

Isn't the above evidence not enough for us to understand that our gursikh students shud learn farsi and read farsi spiritual literature.

 

the hindu (aam banda living in the land of indus river) might be anna, but the mat isn't totally 100% removed from sikhi 

and in today's age where there isn't as much clarity, we need to understands vedic literature more to understand our own bani which has beant references to things outside of my younger generation's comprehension (most people, and gursikhs especially, were already well-versed in vedic philosophies)

we need gian of sanatan/vedic/hindu ideologies to be first able to pinpoint all differences and properly be able to do parchar throughout India 

Guru Sahib also sent sikhs to benares to learn vedic languages as far as I can reference, I am pretty sure guru sahiban were well-versed in Indian languages of sanskrit, etc. (and Guru Gobind Singh ji maharaj in braj as well)

persian was the wordly/political language of the day, therefore guru sahiban were learned in those as well and therefore we have the long history of Guru Nanak Dev ji freely having discourse with and enlightening maulvis, nawab daulat khan, babur and how Guru Angad Dev ji criticized Humayun, or Guru Angad Dev ji, Guru Raam Das ji kept contact with Akbar, or Guru Hargobind Sahib ji delved in the affairs of mughal state, Guru Har Krishan ji had a spiritual discourse with bahudar shah at a young age, and Guru Gobind Singh ji openly demonstrated to Aurgunzeb the hypocrisy of the mughals in Zafarnamah, etc. etc. 

but gurbani references vedic culture far more than abrahamic culture, so hence we should prioritize the former in order to understand our own sikhi

if we don't understand vedic culture, how can we differentiate dasam bani from hindu"ism" to smack down anti-dasam preachers who merely look at the name of banis like vaar sri bhaugati ji ki or chaubis avatar or chandi charitar to dismiss it to be mythological worship 

bhulan chuka li khema baksho 

[NaamTiharoJoJape 84]

5 hours ago, shastarSingh said:

One of taksal jathedar, I think someone before Sant Sunder Singh Bhindranwale was a nirmala and changed the curriculum.

so you refute/dispute the authenticity of the taksal in times of sant baba gurbachan singh ji, sant kartar singh ji, sant jarnail singh ji, etc.

I understand it is nirmala influenced and has evolved from its tarna dal roots, but it isnt preaching manmat of brahminism yet either

only abnormal thing I can think of taksaal doing in a brahmanical way are the akhand paaths, etc. and I was never captured by giani thakur singh ji's katha, it just never clicked with me 

[NaamTiharoJoJape 84]

2 hours ago, GurjantGnostic said:

Gurmat sources are the "core curriculum". The Guru Sahiban encouraged being well studied period. Something like Farsi and the related spiritual writings definitely qualify as worthy just not required. 

Islam has two tenets that earn it that eye. Naam and Hukam. 

100%, our worldy studies in language/philosophy/social sciences should at best/least reflect gurmat