Jap Ji Sahib Katha

[dallysingh101]

55 minutes ago, Premi5 said:

Some kathakaars I think are good

Truth be told, it might also be down to learning style preferences.  Most of us in the UK (especially anyone who's ever taught) are familiar with the concept of 'Learning Styles' from school i.e. VAK visual, auditory and kinesthetic. But we should also know that we also have personal learning style preferences. So we seem to have intrinsic, innate dispositions to how we actually take in information.

In that respect, katha wouldn't be suited to all, I'm probably one of them. I know I'm not the only one.   

I know I put the boot in (just my style), but I am glad that some people are at least doing something to try and educate pendus about their Sikh heritage. I'm just (unfortunately) not able  to learn this way.

I prefer written stuff because you can pause and reflect on concepts/ideas. You can absorb info at your own pace. Writers themselves (if they have the talent!) can take their time and craft sentences. You get to learn new words. This is superior to what we call 'passive learning' when you sit there silently and get your head filled up - in my opinion. 

[MisterrSingh]

5 hours ago, Premi5 said:

Majority of the recognised Sants and best Kathakaars (e.g. Damdami Taksal) definitely come from pind background. 'Pendus' are not all bad, and I think on the whole have done a lot more than urban Sikhs in that regard

Without doubt. However, one would expect the message of Sikhi to have a transformative effect on these "messengers" whereby the power of the message itself elevates their being to one that transcends their pendu-ness; an example to inspire the masses to leave behind the manners and demeanour that lead to the necessity for the emergence of the faith in the first place, i.e. serious failings in our cultural character.

You might argue, "Well, he's tailoring the message to his audience," but I don't think he is. I don't think he's that intelligent or astute that he can "switch" modes like that. To me, as someone who has spent a lifetime around people who present varying projections of themselves depending on their agenda and circumstances (in a pejorative, cynical manner), everytime I've heard this gentleman conduct his sermons, his voice and manner drip condescencion, disdain for the sangat, and dare I say more than a hint of deviousness.

I've felt this way about him many, many years before the allegations about him surfaced, and I can only say that I was quite annoyed at myself for not having -- at the time -- the convinction in my own gut instincts to have gone with what I was feeling about him. Rather, I admonished myself for being so judgemental (which seems to be a uniquely Sikh thing to do for those in a period of spirituality where it's easier to shy away from making the right decision; instead choosing to hide behind "Hum nahi chungeh, burra nahi koi" as an easy way out) when I should've been brave enough to listen to what my inner voice was telling me.

[MisterrSingh]

3 hours ago, dallysingh101 said:

It took you that long to come out with this??

 I never realised I was on the clock.

[dallysingh101]

5 hours ago, Premi5 said:

Majority of the recognised Sants and best Kathakaars (e.g. Damdami Taksal) definitely come from pind background. 'Pendus' are not all bad, and I think on the whole have done a lot more than urban Sikhs in that regard

I've talked to some of the high ranking ones. They usually stay at someone I know's house, when in E. London. Some of them seem very intelligent. 

I think they are like professors trying to teach special needs kids, if you get the analogy. I think they go for the lowest common denominator, maybe out of necessity? They are like the literati of the pend scene. 

As, we've (now) discussed ad nauseam here, apnay routinely have personality worship going on. I think they do this with the parchaarak more than pay close attention to what is being said. They also attend Gurdwaras for social purposes, or affiliate with various jathas/personalities to increase their social standing.

I think urban Sikhs are more likely to read. By this term, I also mean rural Sikhs who've put themselves in that literati culture and moved to urban environments and have adopted that culture. . In this respect we have had some quality work being put on by people like Piara Singh Padam, Shamsher Singh Ashok, Bhai Randhir Singh  (not the AKJ one) etc.  We've actually got some quality stuff out there. It's not all perfect but it's there. People shouldn't discount that. 

[Premi5]

2 hours ago, dallysingh101 said:

I've talked to some of the high ranking ones. They usually stay at someone I know's house, when in E. London. Some of them seem very intelligent. 

I think they are like professors trying to teach special needs kids, if you get the analogy. I think they go for the lowest common denominator, maybe out of necessity? They are like the literati of the pend scene. 

As, we've (now) discussed ad nauseam here, apnay routinely have personality worship going on. I think they do this with the parchaarak more than pay close attention to what is being said. They also attend Gurdwaras for social purposes, or affiliate with various jathas/personalities to increase their social standing.

I think urban Sikhs are more likely to read. By this term, I also mean rural Sikhs who've put themselves in that literati culture and moved to urban environments and have adopted that culture. . In this respect we have had some quality work being put on by people like Piara Singh Padam, Shamsher Singh Ashok, Bhai Randhir Singh  (not the AKJ one) etc.  We've actually got some quality stuff out there. It's not all perfect but it's there. People shouldn't discount that. 

Now that Sikhs are better educated, the level of detail in Katha should be going up. 

[dallysingh101]

21 minutes ago, Premi5 said:

Now that Sikhs are better educated, the level of detail in Katha should be going up. 

Not if the vast majority of the target audience are still semi-literate pendus. Might be the katha stays the same, but intelligent people can get quality stuff to read. 

[dallysingh101]

@Premi5

Can you read Gurmukhi btw?

[Premi5]

1 hour ago, dallysingh101 said:

@Premi5

Can you read Gurmukhi btw?

Yes, but slowly and it would take me a long time to read Punjabi texts

[Premi5]

Bumping this again

Would be grateful if anyone recommends a good source in English or Panjabi which helps me think about the meaning of each Pauri as going along? 

@shastarSingh ? 

[Arsh1469]

3 hours ago, Premi5 said:

Bumping this again

Would be grateful if anyone recommends a good source in English or Panjabi which helps me think about the meaning of each Pauri as going along? 

@shastarSingh ? 

You should read Kamalpreet Singh Pradeshi's books. He has translated Sant Gurbachan Singh Ji's katha to english. It is so deep. He spent almost 300 pages just on the mool mantar.