Jump to content

Concept of Sin

Ranjeet01

By Ranjeet01,
in WHAT'S HAPPENING?

 Share

Recommended Posts

Ranjeet01 Grand Master

Ranjeet01

Posted
Posted

According to Christians we are born with sin.

The reason they think this is because we according to them the human race are descended from Adam and Eve and they sinned and were casted out from the Garden of Eden.

We cannot be saved except through Jesus Christ because he was born of a virgin birth. Only he can save us because he is God incarnated into human form and is his own son and since he was not descended from Adam and Eve, he is not affected by this original sin and therefore can save us.

This is not how we consider sin. We are not born with sin but we are come have effects of karma from our own previous incarnations. We have divinity within us, a "jot" and we do not need to be saved. We are part of Waheguru, how and why does Maharaj need to save something which is a part of himself.

After 84 lakh joons, it is a blessing to get to the level and a form of a human which provides us an opportunity to break the cycle and get back to Sach kind.

We got this far, what is so sinful about that?

0
Link to comment
Share on other sites
Suchi Grand Master

Suchi

Posted
Posted
On 4/23/2023 at 6:01 PM, Ranjeet01 said:

According to Christians we are born with sin.

The reason they think this is because we according to them the human race are descended from Adam and Eve and they sinned and were casted out from the Garden of Eden.

We cannot be saved except through Jesus Christ because he was born of a virgin birth. Only he can save us because he is God incarnated into human form and is his own son and since he was not descended from Adam and Eve, he is not affected by this original sin and therefore can save us.

This is not how we consider sin. We are not born with sin but we are come have effects of karma from our own previous incarnations. We have divinity within us, a "jot" and we do not need to be saved. We are part of Waheguru, how and why does Maharaj need to save something which is a part of himself.

After 84 lakh joons, it is a blessing to get to the level and a form of a human which provides us an opportunity to break the cycle and get back to Sach kind.

We got this far, what is so sinful about that?

The concept of sin was invented so that we can be blamed for all manner of wrongs and therefore, punished. The Catholic Church is known for its abuse of women, children and foreigners (non Christian) who are then forced to obey the Church diktat. Hence why confession was invented and forced conversions justified. 

These Abrahamic religions are designed to enslave humanity, which we are seeing, especially since Kovid. But it has been going on since Christianity was invented, probably using the story of Krishna Nitty. 

0
Link to comment
Share on other sites
  • 1 year later...
BhForce Grand Master

BhForce

Posted
Posted
On 4/23/2023 at 10:01 AM, Ranjeet01 said:

This is not how we consider sin. We are not born with sin but we are come have effects of karma from our own previous incarnations.

I agree we're not born with sin like the Christians think. Also I agree we have effects of karma.

But Gurbani does state that the body contains both sin and charity (goodness):

ਕਾਇਆ ਅੰਦਰਿ ਪਾਪੁ ਪੁੰਨੁ ਦੁਇ ਭਾਈ ॥

Within the body are the two brothers sin and virtue. p126

On 4/23/2023 at 10:01 AM, Ranjeet01 said:

We have divinity within us, a "jot" and we do not need to be saved.

Actually, we do need to be saved. Gurbani calls this "udhaar" (uplift).

Without Satguru, souls are liable to spiritual death:

ਜਿਨਾ ਸਤਿਗੁਰੁ ਪੁਰਖੁ ਨ ਭੇਟਿਓ ਸੇ ਭਾਗਹੀਣ ਵਸਿ ਕਾਲ ॥ p40
Those who have not met Satguru Purakh are unfortunate and liable to death.

So, yeah, we do need to be saved, and Guru ji does the saving.

The reason Satguru is the one to save is because God has given Satguru the "key" (kunji):

ਸਤਿਗੁਰ ਹਥਿ ਕੁੰਜੀ ਹੋਰਤੁ ਦਰੁ ਖੁਲੈ ਨਾਹੀ ਗੁਰੁ ਪੂਰੈ ਭਾਗਿ ਮਿਲਾਵਣਿਆ ॥੭॥
In the True Guru's hand is the key. None else can open the door. By perfect good fortune the Guru is met. p124

0
Link to comment
Share on other sites
MokhamSingh Grand Master

MokhamSingh

Posted
Posted

The Mind is Jyot Saroop (Waheguru), but the mind is under the influence of five evils…

Through Naam Simran( Rememberance), the mind will begin to detach from evil, and get back to its original form ( MANN TU JYOT SAROOP HEH)…

Until the mind breaks free from the five evils, one will go through the cycle of paap and punn….which leads to Karma…

Naam Simran destroys past karma, and prevents new karma coming into fruition…

I did this, I did that…

This non realisation of the Jyot Saroop gives rise to paap and Punn, which in turn gives birth to suffering and misery…

0
Link to comment
Share on other sites

Join the conversation

You can post now and register later. If you have an account, sign in now to post with your account.

Guest
Reply to this topic...

×   Pasted as rich text.   Paste as plain text instead

  Only 75 emoji are allowed.

×   Your link has been automatically embedded.   Display as a link instead

×   Your previous content has been restored.   Clear editor

×   You cannot paste images directly. Upload or insert images from URL.

Loading...
×
 Share
Go to topic listing
  • advertisement_alt
  • advertisement_alt
  • advertisement_alt


  • Topics

  • Posts

    • Dsinghd
      Gurbani Santhiya

      By Dsinghd · Posted

      I was searching igurbani.com which gives correct pronunciation of Gurbani. I can’t remember all of it at once. I guess it relies on more practice, like more Sehaj Paths. The meaning becomes clearer. I have noticed slight variants in it. This could be because it’s written in old Punjabi.  
    • BhForce
      Veer Manpreet Singh claims we shouldn't worship Guru Granth Sahib ji

      By BhForce · Posted

      Veer Manpreet Singh, a lay preacher, claims that -Sikhs aren't supposed to worship Guru Granth Sahib ji. -We are only supposed to worship God as is written in Guru Granth Sahib ji. -We only "revere" Guru Granth Sahib ji.     He says a lot of other things in this video, some are good refutations of Hindu superstitions, but the reformers often go too far. Anyways, what he is saying about not worshipping Guru Granth Sahib ji is totally wrong. The reason is Guru Granth Sahib ji is Guru. Guru is Satguru. Satguru is God. We worship God. Therefore, we also worship Satguru (Guru Granth Sahib ji).   There are innumerable verses in Gurbani equating God and Guru. ਗੁਰੁ ਪਰਮੇਸਰੁ ਪਾਰਬ੍ਰਹਮੁ ਗੁਰੁ ਡੁਬਦਾ ਲਏ ਤਰਾਇ ॥੨॥ The Guru is the Supreme Lord and the Transcendent Master. The Guru floats (saves) the drowning one. p49   ਗੁਰੁ ਪਰਮੇਸਰੁ ਏਕੋ ਜਾਣੁ ॥ Know the Guru and God as One. p864   ਗੁਰ ਨਾਲਿ ਤੁਲਿ ਨ ਲਗਈ ਖੋਜਿ ਡਿਠਾ ਬ੍ਰਹਮੰਡੁ ॥ There is no one at par with the Guru. I have searched and seen the whole universe. p49 (If the Guru is the greatest in the whole universe, shouldn't we worship the Guru?)   I'd like to ask Manpreet Singh what is worship? Any reasonable definition would include obeisance, remembrance, and praise. Those are exactly the same things Gurbani says to do regarding Guru! Remembrance and obeisance: ਸਤਿਗੁਰੁ ਅਪਨਾ ਸਦ ਸਦਾ ਸਮ੍ਹਾਰੇ ॥ Ever, ever, I think of the True Guru, ਗੁਰ ਕੇ ਚਰਨ ਕੇਸ ਸੰਗਿ ਝਾਰੇ ॥੧॥ and the Guru's feet I brush with my head's hair. p387   Praise: ਗੁਰੁ ਪਾਰਬ੍ਰਹਮੁ ਪਰਮੇਸਰੁ ਆਪਿ ॥ The Guru himself is the transcendent Lord and the supreme master. ਆਠ ਪਹਰ ਨਾਨਕ ਗੁਰ ਜਾਪਿ ॥੪॥੧੬॥੬੭॥ Throughout the eight watches of the day, O Nanak meditate thou on the Guru. p387   In fact, Gurbani says the way to find God is to worship (puja) of Guru: ਸਤਿਗੁਰੂ ਕੇ ਚਰਨ ਧੋਇ ਧੋਇ ਪੂਜਹੁ ਇਨ ਬਿਧਿ ਮੇਰਾ ਹਰਿ ਪ੍ਰਭੁ ਲਹੁ ਰੇ ॥ ਰਹਾਉ ॥ Washing and bathing the True Guru's feet, worship thou them. In this way thou shall obtain my Lord Master. Pause. p1118   Could it be any clearer that we are to worship Guru ji?
    • BhForce
      Khalsa Secondary School (West London)

      By BhForce · Posted

      Bro, reciting a shorter Chaupai Sahib is hardly "anti-Dasam". It's fine to argue that the longer Chaupai is more traditional, but the short one isn't anti-Dasam. That's like claiming shorter Rehras is anti-Guru Granth Sahib ji just because there are fewer selections from Guru Granth Sahib. It might not be traditional, but it's not anti-Guru Granth Sahib. I prefer the longer versions, but let's not exaggerate. Every tradition has a slightly different Rehras version. Nanaksar vs Taksal vs Nihangs and so on. The basic template for Rehras is at the beginning of Guru Granth Sahib ji. Later, Chaupai Sahib was added and Anand Sahib always follows as the end of a process. Then some sangats added more saloks to start Rehras and others were added at the end. Some additional selections from Dasam Bani were also added, but it wasn't the same ones for every sangat. The important thing is to not hate on each other for these variations.
    • BhForce
      Khalsa Secondary School (West London)

      By BhForce · Posted

      Umm, so you're upset that this jatha did Chaupai the same way it's being done at Harimandar Sahib for 100 years? Shouldn't you be upset at the manager of Darbar Sahib? I'm not saying that Sikhs who are aware of certain issues shouldn't do the longer Chaupai, but there are only so many battles you can fight. Instead of calling some jatha traitors because they're doing the (for better or worse) "standard" Chauapai published by the SGPC, it would be better to change things from the central point. You can't fault the average Sikh for picking up the average Gutka and doing paath.
    • realist17
      Khalsa Secondary School (West London)

      By realist17 · Posted

      It's the same here in Toronto. Alot of the gudwaras here are political orientated and get tons of funding from the government-probably want them stay hush hush with all the BS that has been happening with India.  These guys are skewing gurbani. A complaint was sent to a ragi singh a couple of days ago in regards to a hukamnama. 
×
×
  • Create New...

Important Information

Terms of Use

  I accept