Ur Views

[S1ngh]

Okay here's what i think..

Keertania are kinds role model to some kids. I remember when i was young i tends to think that raggis singh and granthi singhs are very very very much learned sikhs. So to me as a kid i saw keertania, granthi singh and everybody as the true sikhs. So we can say that they are the role models of our society, kids will look at them and maybe they wants their sikhi to be at same level as of the keertania or granthi singh.

Now going back to topic, i really don't mind if monay do keertan or not. And personally it's not a paap at all :umm: @ . Saying it's not okay is stupid thing to say. I have big brother who is mona and sometime he gives me advice both spiritual and social but should i think "Oh he is mona, why should i take him serious anyway." He has weakness, i have weakness, everybody here has somekind of weakness but that doesn't mean you have to isolate yourself with them and ignore them. If they do keertan, we are nobody to stop them, who are we to stop them in praising the word of waheguruu ? NOW, another point is when they do keertan in front of say local gurdwara sangat, now don't get me wrong but i think that isn't really a good step and im pretty much sure the person who is mona should be knowledgable to know why not. The reason? I just told in first para that kids do look upon keertania and granthi as their role model and in religiously we all don't want our kids to think that they can be lead sikh religious life but at same time killing of their hairs. So non-kesha sikhs can do keertan like at places like sikh camps, where they can get inspired and then they can do keertan at all places like "akhand path" in their house etc... but make sure that if we see them more than dozen time in year in front of huge sangat then the long term future of sikh kaum is not gonna be all with roses.

Sorry if i offended anyone but sometime just image can save sikhi.. (not true in general, but can be true in some cases)

[smartsingh24]

You all are concentrating too much on the idea of finding someone who could be a role model, but he isn't. If you look closely at KB's posts, it's pretty easy to see that all he's saying is that people who should do kirtan infront of sangat, at gw, should be keeping rehat. If not, what use is it? Doesn't matter how much kirtan you do, the only way that you're gonna get anywhere, is if you keep rehat. Kirtan is a means to an end, and what I'm pretty sure KB is arguing, is that if you don't have any rehat, and you do kirtan on stage, then someone else is gonna pick up on it and start thinking "hey, that guy's doing kirtan, and he doesn't even keep that much rehat. It's looks like he's in sikhi, so if he can be in sikhi, why can't I do what he does?" Of course, some would think that this is a good thing, but if you look closely, you'll see that the person isn't actually thinking about going into sikhi, just going into sikhi by this other person's definition. Image defines a sikh, and if someone isn't even willing to keep hair, kanga, kirpan, kara, and kashera, then they are doing a disservice to anyone that listens to them. Just by doing kirtan, and wearing 5 k's, you're already inspiring someone to become even more like you, just by leading by example. People have to be able to decide where the line must be drawn. My grandma always says "follow the kirtan, not the kirtani". Take for example Mohinder Singh SDO. What happened there? Got kicked out of a number of institute before finally being given tankiya by Akal Takht. He apologized and was forgiven, but his effect was even greater. Looking beyond all the people that he scorned, you can notice that he brought tons of people into sikhi just by singing gurbani. Eventually, when people noticed what he really was, and what he did, things started to change. Which is why things have to change. People only pure of heart and fully in Sikhi should do kirtan. How will we know that? We won't know completley, but it isn't that hard to pick 'em out. After all, people were able to see grace and serenity in Guru Ji.

[Mahavir]

Sorry for going off topic, but who was this Mohinder Singh SDO?

[Guest SikhForLife]

thank you for keeping this thread healthy, instead of the name calling and degradation this was heading to..

so wats the consensus? how can we satisfy the feelings of both sides.

(ie monas seeing monas do keertan and get inspired.. and at the same time not become role models of the youth growing up)

[Guest JSS]

so for all those who disagree with monas doing kirtan in gurdwaras...

one question:...given the chance would you tell our guru ji's that letting sufis to do kirtan in harmandir sahib was the wrong decision?...are you going to tell the gurus that the descendents of Mardana should NEVER have been allowed to do kirtan because as far as we know, they never converted to sikhi...

if not...then i don't see the difference here...

also...Singh veerji you talked about monas doing kirtans in sikhi camps and stuff being okay...well we have always treated Samagams as camps..a place to go and take part in simran, kirtan, paath, have gurbani veechar, do seva...a weekend among gursikhs and others.. where we all go and learn something, and bring back a few good things to implement in our life from every samagam....this is the usual description i get of a camp...and so then it would follow that a mona doing kirtan at samagams isn't a problem...

secondly...most samagams i attend, we don't even use a stage...it's sitting on the ground, facing guru ji...so it's not like the kirtani is doing kirtan IN FRONT of the sangat...many times the sangata won't even know who is doing kirtan becasue they might have had their heads down during the transition....

[smartsingh24]

so for all those who disagree with monas doing kirtan in gurdwaras...

one question:...given the chance would you tell our guru ji's that letting sufis to do kirtan in harmandir sahib was the wrong decision?...are you going to tell the gurus that the descendents of Mardana should NEVER have been allowed to do kirtan because as far as we know, they never converted to sikhi...

if not...then i don't see the difference here...

also...Singh veerji you talked about monas doing kirtans in sikhi camps and stuff being okay...well we have always treated Samagams as camps..a place to go and take part in simran, kirtan, paath, have gurbani veechar, do seva...a weekend among gursikhs and others.. where we all go and learn something, and bring back a few good things to implement in our life from every samagam....this is the usual description i get of a camp...and so then it would follow that a mona doing kirtan at samagams isn't a problem...

secondly...most samagams i attend, we don't even use a stage...it's sitting on the ground, facing guru ji...so it's not like the kirtani is doing kirtan IN FRONT of the sangat...many times the sangata won't even know who is doing kirtan becasue they might have had their heads down during the transition....

86237[/snapback]

These are diffrent times. Those rules don't apply now. Back then, people were motivated just by being in the close proximity of a true sikh, and true sikhs were common in guru ji's time. Now everyone shys away from it, not keeping rehat, doing stupid stuff and trying to justify it, and listening to bhangra and bollywood, holding it more important over kirtan and stuff. How many times have you seen someone that has a khanda on and yet doesn't have the five k's? how many times do you see someone that has cut hair and still call's themselves a sikh? As a sikh, you are required to keep your hair. It's in EVERYONE's maryada. And yet, people keep on talking about, it doesn't matter who's singing it as long as their singing gurbani. How can one sing gurbani, and then go against it later on? It's contradictory, hypocritical, and setting a bad example for the youth of tommorrow.

[Guest Sony]

but what of those that are on the path to sikhi still?

[smartsingh24]

but what of those that are on the path to sikhi still?

86257[/snapback]

Can you be clearer than that? maybe an example?

[ssk]

so for all those who disagree with monas doing kirtan in gurdwaras...

one question:...given the chance would you tell our guru ji's that letting sufis to do kirtan in harmandir sahib was the wrong decision?...are you going to tell the gurus that the descendents of Mardana should NEVER have been allowed to do kirtan because as far as we know, they never converted to sikhi...

if not...then i don't see the difference here...

also...Singh veerji you talked about monas doing kirtans in sikhi camps and stuff being okay...well we have always treated Samagams as camps..a place to go and take part in simran, kirtan, paath, have gurbani veechar, do seva...a weekend among gursikhs and others.. where we all go and learn something, and bring back a few good things to implement in our life from every samagam....this is the usual description i get of a camp...and so then it would follow that a mona doing kirtan at samagams isn't a problem...

secondly...most samagams i attend, we don't even use a stage...it's sitting on the ground, facing guru ji...so it's not like the kirtani is doing kirtan IN FRONT of the sangat...many times the sangata won't even know who is doing kirtan becasue they might have had their heads down during the transition....

86237[/snapback]

These are diffrent times. Those rules don't apply now. Back then, people were motivated just by being in the close proximity of a true sikh, and true sikhs were common in guru ji's time. Now everyone shys away from it, not keeping rehat, doing stupid stuff and trying to justify it, and listening to bhangra and bollywood, holding it more important over kirtan and stuff. How many times have you seen someone that has a khanda on and yet doesn't have the five k's? how many times do you see someone that has cut hair and still call's themselves a sikh? As a sikh, you are required to keep your hair. It's in EVERYONE's maryada. And yet, people keep on talking about, it doesn't matter who's singing it as long as their singing gurbani. How can one sing gurbani, and then go against it later on? It's contradictory, hypocritical, and setting a bad example for the youth of tommorrow.

86255[/snapback]

ok, well i don't fully agree with you saying that those rules don't apply now, but thats your opinion and you are entitled to it. But there are those people who dont listen to bhangra and bollywood music/videos, but they just can't keep from cutting their hair. Are we supposed to push them away ??? no....if we let them do those sevas they are more likely to become closer to sikhi....its not like we are gonna let some drunk go and do keertan....although in the future if that drunk straightens up enough i don't see why not.. but gettin back to what i was saying.. by letting these people do keertan seva they will eventually take amrit and are more likely to take amrit than if they sit back at the back of darbar hall and have no part in the keertan. AND there is much evidence of this as most youth who were not amritdhari are now almost ALL amritdhari. It works...and i AGREE that there should be limits... but these limits should not be that monas can't do keertan if they are moving closer and closer to sikhi saroop

i hope you realize where i'm coming from and take a minute to thing about all the positive things that come out of this

[Heera Singh]

Vaheguru Jee Ka Khalsa, Vaheguru Jee Kee Fateh..!!

smartsingh... an example mite be me about 10 years ago... i'm not sayin i'm a granthi or a chardi-kalaa gursikh or nething.. but 10 years ago i was a mona and knew nothin about sikhi... and thanx to the acceptance, love, and encouragement provided by the sangat, i am now more into sikhi then ever before, and my love and devotion for it is stronger then ever... i GUARANTEE that if i was told that i couldn't play tabla or do kirtan back then, that i would NOT have decided to join the path of sikhi and become a sikh...like i said.. i'm speaking for PERSONAL experience, and i'm sure many others on here are...

u can't say nethin to personal experience, because tha's factual.. i know many gursikhs on this forum that have come down a similar path as mine, and they are amazing, amritdhari gursikhs..

so this method of ALLOWING 'mona's' to do kirtan infront of sangat DOES work better then that of NOT allowing them..... bottom line.. it's a SEVA.. !!! you can't take seva away from them like that...

Vaheguru Jee Ka Khalsa, Vaheguru Jee Kee Fateh..!!