Ur Views

[japmans]

wowwwwwwww

i go to a samagam....which was so entirely filled with russ..... where the keertanis were so diversified....

i come home... and i see this crap all over again...spectacular....

oh and.... i'm hoping this isn't true, but i find it extremely sad that over this one weekend, smartsingh told noonespecial to NOT COME BACK to the thread anymore, and noonespecial promptly got his ID deleted..

Nicely done smartsingh...that was very.... what's the word i'm lookin for..? ........SMART...!!! yes!! that was very SMART of you! and VERY loving, might i add! nicely done, congratulations! and to think, he's amritdhari too...DAMN! maybe not so smart..at least if he was a mona, it'd be aright, right?

by the way, a quick thank-you to davinder singh..... i think your post was very learned... in fact.. i learned to ignore it!

god, i honestly don't even know where to begin with this anymore.... hahaha it's beautiful really.. i started off writing this post in pure anger, and now i'm actually laughing!

lemme jus try to chalk this up here:

1. Sikh soldier thinks it's wrong for non-amritdharis to do keertan... but okay for muslims, cuz we don't expect them to be amritdhari.... well.... that would imply that his view is that naamdharis can do keertan (cuz we don't expect them to really believe in amrit either), and.... Christians.... and...Buddhists...and Hindu Pandits..... but the non-amritdhari/mona that knows some of the teachings and could be actually working towards the path?? NOOO he's evil, no keertan seva for him!

2. Smartsingh24 is stealing the show here, i love it... something about being a hypocrite or some wierdness like that.... i'm sure you've got skeletons in your closet too singh...doesn't everyone??... i insist you never do keertan again, cuz you're being a hypocrite.....

3. another smartsingh24 reference to hypocrisy: as you'll understand from point 2, it's none of my business the stuff you do.... what you do is YOUR life, not MINE.... it's almost like you were saying that amritdharis are allowed to do bad deeds, but non-amritdharis aren't.. (Dare i make the reference to the keertani you self-admittedly love and defend??) what it seems like you're saying is that a mona says baani, and then does something different...therefore, as long as the baani doesn't go against the mona's actions, it could be okay... perhaps we should have bouncers and security guards and "shabad screeners" at gurdwaray... that would make more sense... if the mona does a shabad that goes along the lines of "i'm a fool, and i don't even understand you" or even something like "Toon Beant Ko Virla Jaanay", see, that's cool.....cuz they're not talking about amrit...and they're not singing about rehit... or anything! so, therefore, in THAT case monas can do keertan, cuz there's no hypocrisy.. (in other words, that arguement that smartsingh24 presented is probably at the same level as me going to a mud puddle, picking up a handful and pointing to it and saying 'this is my point of view')

4. Sikhiforlife is making the MOST sensible arguement here, and i'm beginning to understand his viewpoint..... somewhat...... from what i understand, there's a distinction being made between a keshdhari and a sehajdhari, if i'm understanding right (please correct me if i'm wrong), and essentially veerji's arguement or point is that keshdharis can do , but monay can not... this at least makes some sense in my heart and mind, but still not complete sense.... here's why:

other people's weaknesses (and even strengths) truly aren't anyone's business... there are very few Mahaan Gursikhs (and i kinda take offense to Daasn Daas callin me chardhikalaa and a good gursikh cuz God knows i'm not).... every single person has a role in this world whether you (in general, not directed to anyone in particular) like it or not! i'm lying to you if i said "i haven't learnt anything from monas".... cuzz it's just a lie... there's so many examples on this board alone! what i'm trying to say is that too often, we automatically categorize monas as "bad" when we are actually the crap on the bottom of people's shoes...... HONESTLY speaking here... NONE of us really knows who's life consists of what... how can ANYONE here say and insist that "YOU should take amrit before YOU can do keertan", because that implies that you have spiritual and religious knowledge of each and every individuals current, past, and future lives....

remember, gurbaani says , tinni peeta rang sion, jin ko likhiaa aad..

gurbani says "Jin Ko Lagi Piyaas, Amrit Sehi Khaaey" which in my eyes, means, those who have the thirst, will take amrit... not "those who have the thirst will take amrit....RIGHT NOW!!!".... it means that everyone's on a path and everything will happen in due time, as it's supposed to....

and again.... i really wanna see someone stand up and go to the 5 year old who jus learnt keertan and is SO proud of it because it's her first shabad, and she's SOOOO happy... yeah...TELL HER she's a manmukh...tell her she's going to hell...tell her she can't do keertan until she's amritdhari... i'm sure you'll feel very proud and that you've done your Guru true justice as you see that little girl start pouring her tears out and runing back to her mom... yes, sir... that's very good seva, i must say...

enjoy your day everybody, and hopefully you note the sarcasm where it belongs.

[Khalsa4ever]

Waheguroo jee ka Khalsa!

Waheguroo jee kee Fateh!

Although a little harsh, I agree with ya Japman... its ridiculous to start "inventing" rules NOW on who can do keertan when our Gurus didn't even hold others up to this kind of scrutiny...

Waheguroo jee ka Khalsa!

Waheguroo jee kee Fateh!

[japmans]

:umm: hanji veerji, i know it was harsh...sadly, it seems like if the message has to be remembered by people, it's gotta be displayed in a very "Truth Hurts" type of manner..

[Guest Sony]

@ wow!! japman! wicked post......

ur absolutly right.... we are human and we dont know what the other person is thinking and feeling. people say that that a mona goes out drinking, does something wrong then they will come and do paath to take away the paap... but doesnt our guru ji say that nething that brings u closer to god, nething that makes u come and do paath is good. (please note, im not saying drinking is good, im saying the feeling of guilt is bringing them to guru ji) if they feel guilty, and they come to guru ji and ask for forgivness then at least there is something in them that sees that what they are doing is wrong.. and hopefully with guru ji's guidance they will stop. there are those that drink and do "bad" things and dont feel nething at all. at least these people come to guru ji's charan and ask for help.....

again awesome post man :cool: (i didnt know u had it in u :umm: )

pul chuk maaf

Fateh

[Princess]

last few posts (especially Japman veerji's post ) were very well said, good job guyz :TH: :umm:

[smartsingh24]

wowwwwwwww

i go to a samagam....which was so entirely filled with russ..... where the keertanis were so diversified....

i come home... and i see this crap all over again...spectacular....

oh and.... i'm hoping this isn't true, but i find it extremely sad that over this one weekend, smartsingh told noonespecial to NOT COME BACK to the thread anymore, and noonespecial promptly got his ID deleted..

Nicely done smartsingh...that was very.... what's the word i'm lookin for..? ........SMART...!!! yes!! that was very SMART of you! and VERY loving, might i add! nicely done, congratulations! and to think, he's amritdhari too...DAMN! maybe not so smart..at least if he was a mona, it'd be aright, right?

by the way, a quick thank-you to davinder singh..... i think your post was very learned... in fact.. i learned to ignore it!

god, i honestly don't even know where to begin with this anymore.... hahaha it's beautiful really.. i started off writing this post in pure anger, and now i'm actually laughing!

lemme jus try to chalk this up here:

1. Sikh soldier thinks it's wrong for non-amritdharis to do keertan... but okay for muslims, cuz we don't expect them to be amritdhari.... well.... that would imply that his view is that naamdharis can do keertan (cuz we don't expect them to really believe in amrit either), and.... Christians.... and...Buddhists...and Hindu Pandits..... but the non-amritdhari/mona that knows some of the teachings and could be actually working towards the path?? NOOO he's evil, no keertan seva for him!

2. Smartsingh24 is stealing the show here, i love it... something about being a hypocrite or some wierdness like that.... i'm sure you've got skeletons in your closet too singh...doesn't everyone??... i insist you never do keertan again, cuz you're being a hypocrite.....

3. another smartsingh24 reference to hypocrisy: as you'll understand from point 2, it's none of my business the stuff you do.... what you do is YOUR life, not MINE.... it's almost like you were saying that amritdharis are allowed to do bad deeds, but non-amritdharis aren't.. (Dare i make the reference to the keertani you self-admittedly love and defend??) what it seems like you're saying is that a mona says baani, and then does something different...therefore, as long as the baani doesn't go against the mona's actions, it could be okay... perhaps we should have bouncers and security guards and "shabad screeners" at gurdwaray... that would make more sense... if the mona does a shabad that goes along the lines of "i'm a fool, and i don't even understand you" or even something like "Toon Beant Ko Virla Jaanay", see, that's cool.....cuz they're not talking about amrit...and they're not singing about rehit... or anything! so, therefore, in THAT case monas can do keertan, cuz there's no hypocrisy.. (in other words, that arguement that smartsingh24 presented is probably at the same level as me going to a mud puddle, picking up a handful and pointing to it and saying 'this is my point of view')

4. Sikhiforlife is making the MOST sensible arguement here, and i'm beginning to understand his viewpoint..... somewhat...... from what i understand, there's a distinction being made between a keshdhari and a sehajdhari, if i'm understanding right (please correct me if i'm wrong), and essentially veerji's arguement or point is that keshdharis can do , but monay can not... this at least makes some sense in my heart and mind, but still not complete sense.... here's why:

other people's weaknesses (and even strengths) truly aren't anyone's business... there are very few Mahaan Gursikhs (and i kinda take offense to Daasn Daas callin me chardhikalaa and a good gursikh cuz God knows i'm not).... every single person has a role in this world whether you (in general, not directed to anyone in particular) like it or not! i'm lying to you if i said "i haven't learnt anything from monas".... cuzz it's just a lie... there's so many examples on this board alone! what i'm trying to say is that too often, we automatically categorize monas as "bad" when we are actually the crap on the bottom of people's shoes...... HONESTLY speaking here... NONE of us really knows who's life consists of what... how can ANYONE here say and insist that "YOU should take amrit before YOU can do keertan", because that implies that you have spiritual and religious knowledge of each and every individuals current, past, and future lives....

remember, gurbaani says , tinni peeta rang sion, jin ko likhiaa aad..

gurbani says "Jin Ko Lagi Piyaas, Amrit Sehi Khaaey" which in my eyes, means, those who have the thirst, will take amrit... not "those who have the thirst will take amrit....RIGHT NOW!!!".... it means that everyone's on a path and everything will happen in due time, as it's supposed to....

and again.... i really wanna see someone stand up and go to the 5 year old who jus learnt keertan and is SO proud of it because it's her first shabad, and she's SOOOO happy... yeah...TELL HER she's a manmukh...tell her she's going to hell...tell her she can't do keertan until she's amritdhari... i'm sure you'll feel very proud and that you've done your Guru true justice as you see that little girl start pouring her tears out and runing back to her mom... yes, sir...  that's very good seva, i must say...

enjoy your day everybody, and hopefully you note the sarcasm where it belongs.

86587[/snapback]

lot of anger in that post for one thing. something about hypocrisy being mentioned?

I don't agree with sikhsoldier on his opinion of other people that aren't sikhs being able to do kirtan.

And I didn't tell noonespecial not to come back ever again, I told him that he shouldn't come back unless he was willing to argure in a topic that is based on the slippery slope. Sry he left/got account deleted, but I had NOTHING TO DO WITH IT. Don't need to explain myself, because if you think that I had something to do with it, your paranoid, but that's obvious from the way that you wrote the post above.

Dare i make the reference to the keertani you self-admittedly love and defend??

I'll be angry for a minute with as much restraint as possible. Don't ever bring him into question. He has faced more punishment for something he didn't do, than anything anyone of us will have to face. He's been shunned, he's had to rebuild his life, and yet still noone but the people who have the facts accept him. Don't even try to disrespect him, because there are people here that will take offence to that for him. And you're damn right I'll defend him. DONT bring him up again.

in other words, that arguement that smartsingh24 presented is probably at the same level as me going to a mud puddle, picking up a handful and pointing to it and saying 'this is my point of view'

Yes, it would be...... If that was the argument I presented. Where did I say that amrithdharis that do bad deeds should still do kirtan? Where did I say Monai that are themselves better than amrithdharis shouldn't do kirtan? I've divided them into two groups, good and bad. After that I took the good group and split that again into amrithdhari and monai. The group that I think should be doing kirtan on stage are the Good Amrithdharis, because they represent what sikhi should be and are the ones that should be lauded among the community, because the Good Amrithdharis are the ones that people should aspire to.

4. Sikhiforlife is making the MOST sensible arguement here

Yes, he does have the most sensible argument, and yet, he doesn't post in this topic anymore..... I wonder why. Maybe it might be because people refused to even read his posts thoroughly enough, they just started laying into him. And KB isn't one to fight back like that.

and again.... i really wanna see someone stand up and go to the 5 year old who jus learnt keertan and is SO proud of it because it's her first shabad, and she's SOOOO happy... yeah...TELL HER she's a manmukh...tell her she's going to hell...tell her she can't do keertan until she's amritdhari... i'm sure you'll feel very proud and that you've done your Guru true justice as you see that little girl start pouring her tears out and runing back to her mom... yes, sir...  that's very good seva, i must say...

And you call my arguments stupid? A five year old girl? I doubt she'd even know what an amrithdhari means. If she wants to do kirtan, by all means go ahead, but for a while it's the parents responsibility to push her towards becoming an amrithdhari as everyone's parents have to.

Keep on bashing Japmans, it doesn't show a pleasent side of you.

[atl singh]

they can do keertan if they are trying to get closer to waheguru and are in the process of becoming a gursikh. but not on stage. that provokes a mindset that monay are at the equal gursikhi stage in their life as a keshdari sikh. letm do keertan. push them to do keertan and get to sikhi. dont expose them if their not on the right path.

[ssk]

and again.... i really wanna see someone stand up and go to the 5 year old who jus learnt keertan and is SO proud of it because it's her first shabad, and she's SOOOO happy... yeah...TELL HER she's a manmukh...tell her she's going to hell...tell her she can't do keertan until she's amritdhari... i'm sure you'll feel very proud and that you've done your Guru true justice as you see that little girl start pouring her tears out and runing back to her mom... yes, sir...  that's very good seva, i must say...

And you call my arguments stupid? A five year old girl? I doubt she'd even know what an amrithdhari means. If she wants to do kirtan, by all means go ahead, but for a while it's the parents responsibility to push her towards becoming an amrithdhari as everyone's parents have to.

86611[/snapback]

OK , now i have a question

u stated above that she doesn't know wut an amritdhari is right????

ok so what if a 25 year old person just gets into sikhi and they don't know wut being amritdhari is???? then its okay for them to do keertan right???? because that is what u are implying :nihungsmile:

but i guess ull have some smart reply to that like o they are over a certain age limit and my foots rehitnama says that if ur over this age limit then u automatically know wut being amritdhari is :TH: :nihungsmile:

o by the way

does ANYONE here really know what being amritdhari really is?????

[japmans]

lot of anger in that post for one thing. something about hypocrisy being mentioned?

anger?? did you read my post?? i believe you enjoyed your practise of selective reading when you missed the parts where i said:

hahaha it's beautiful really.. i started off writing this post in pure anger, and now i'm actually laughing!

and

enjoy your day everybody, and hopefully you note the sarcasm where it belongs.

clearly some SEVERE issues of english comprehension.... shall i continue?

yourdictionary.com defines "anger" as: A strong feeling of displeasure or hostility.

synonyms for this word are: burn (up), enrage, incense1, infuriate, madden, provoke.

i dunno... let's try reading THIS part twice.... do oyu see sarcasm there??? therefore.... Anger does not equal sarcasm.....

I don't agree with sikhsoldier on his opinion of other people that aren't sikhs being able to do kirtan.

thanks for the information?

Sry he left/got account deleted, but I had NOTHING TO DO WITH IT. Don't need to explain myself, because if you think that I had something to do with it, your paranoid, but that's obvious from the way that you wrote the post above.

did you read your own post??? you're calling me paranoid! haha

I'll be angry for a minute with as much restraint as possible. Don't ever bring him into question. He has faced more punishment for something he didn't do, than anything anyone of us will have to face. He's been shunned, he's had to rebuild his life, and yet still noone but the people who have the facts accept him. Don't even try to disrespect him, because there are people here that will take offence to that for him. And you're damn right I'll defend him. DONT bring him up again.

interesting....first you say m y post was laced with anger.... and you come right bcak with no real facts....... not to mention that you're doing more selective reading.. it's interesting that out of that whole paragraph, you chose to qupte (and comment) on that, when clearly that wasn't even the focal point of my post.... nicely done...selective reading yet again..

Where did I say that amrithdharis that do bad deeds should still do kirtan? Where did I say Monai that are themselves better than amrithdharis shouldn't do kirtan?

this is the interesting part... clearly, to protect your reputation, you're not gonna come straight up and SAY something like that.... perhaps you should consider writing your posts in a different manner if that's NOT what you intended to say, but that's what all your posts screamed, otherwise all these people wouldn't have AGREED with my earlier post.

I've divided them into two groups, good and bad. After that I took the good group and split that again into amrithdhari and monai. The group that I think should be doing kirtan on stage are the Good Amrithdharis, because they represent what sikhi should be and are the ones that should be lauded among the community, because the Good Amrithdharis are the ones that people should aspire to.

YAYY!! i was waiting for this one..thank you :umm: so... what you're saying is you have the right to know what everyone does, at all times of the day, at all times of the night, when they're in the shower, in the bathroom, in the library, in the park, washing their dishes, walking their dog....... because really..that's the only way you're gonna truly know which amritdharis are truly good and which are truly bad...

EXAMPLE: (i'm providing an example, cuz in your reply to me, you jumped the gun a couple of times..jus wanna slow this down for you) anyone can be gupt.... i'm self-admittedly a manmukh cuz i KNOW the crap that i do that's not befitting of a gursikh... but when i go to gurdwara (at gurdwara moreso than at samagams, though i'm TRYING to change that too), i stay away from as many people as possible... in other words, i don't talk to anyone, i do my thing, and i leave... so if i can be gupt, anyone can be gupt... so in other words, even manmukhs can remain gupt in gurdwara.... even manmukhs can do seva in gurdwara, as sony bhenji pointed out so eloquently above... sometimes Guilt makes them do it... (should i expect comments that their seva is "wrong" cuz they're doing it cuz they feel they hafta?? or are you gonna see the point here..) point being, sometimes you can't jus tell a gursikh by lookin at em!...so are you going to meddle in everyone's affairs? hire private investigators? i know you do keertan, will you stop if you do things that are wrong? are you willing enough to not only spew your arguement, but swallow it too?

maybe i should follow your idea of "GOOD PEOPLE ONLY", and make sure you only do good things..report it to some gursikhs?? or maybe some gurdwara committees..some jathedaars in AKJ...make sure you don't get ANY seva at all...right??

(note: before you go ape on me, and ignore my POINT YET AGAIN, i'm well aware i'm gonig to an extreme.. in english class, we learn something called "compare and contrast".... using an extreme example is an effective way to show the "contrast")

Yes, he does have the most sensible argument, and yet, he doesn't post in this topic anymore..... I wonder why. Maybe it might be because people refused to even read his posts thoroughly enough, they just started laying into him. And KB isn't one to fight back like that.

refuse to read posts throughly enough...hmmm.. now WHY is that ringing a bell with me.....

and maybe you could do the sangat a favour and ask him to repost again, now that we're smartened up to your level..... and "read his posts thorughly".... (i.e..sarcasm..not anger..please see above) so that we can have a conversation about this again?

And you call my arguments stupid? A five year old girl? I doubt she'd even know what an amrithdhari means. If she wants to do kirtan, by all means go ahead, but for a while it's the parents responsibility to push her towards becoming an amrithdhari as everyone's parents have to.

DESN'T KNOW WHAT AN AMRITDHARI IS?!?!? MANMAT!!! (shall i denote this as sarcasm, or did you figure it out??) plus, if we're not gonna talk about "implying" and go ONLY on what people SAID and DIDN'T say.... welll.. you NEVER SAID that the 5-yaer old doesn't count!

Keep on bashing Japmans, it doesn't show a pleasent side of you.

ok, NOW i'm just confused.. "keep on bashing"..sounds like encouragement.... "it doesn't show a pleasent (sic) side of you" denotes negativity... what are we saying here..... i mean, i know this is a sikh forum, but... do you find me attractive when i don't show a pleasant side??

All in all... MAYBE... honestly, just a suggestion.... i mean, take it for what it's worth..... POSSIBLY....PERHAPS.... MAAAAAYYYYYYYYYBEEEEEE.. jus read my first post again?? maybe you'll really see what i was saying instead of donig the whole selective reading thing?

and yes, i responded to your post almost entirely, and yes, i'm aware i omitted some of your sentences.... that's not selective reading, that's commenting on the brunt of your points... i'm telling you from my HEART, that i wrote my first post with my HEART, and from my HEART, i'm telling you, you didn't even COMMENT SLIGHTLY on any of my points.... or very BARELY did anyways...

i'm thinking i should wish you a good night, just so you KNOW that i'm not "Angry"..although i wished you a good day before, and you stil thought i was angry....

but.. umm... i love you? will that make it easier to understand?

[japmans]

p.s... i'm sorry my quote tags didn't work.. i'm not sure why...