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lot of anger in that post for one thing. something about hypocrisy being mentioned? rolleyes.gif

anger?? did you read my post?? i believe you enjoyed your practise of selective reading when you missed the parts where i said:

I don't need to read my posts, I wrote them, or are you going to come up with some sarcasm-laden reply for that? I didn't do selective reading, I didn't warp things to what I felt like, I read what popped out at me

hahaha it's beautiful really.. i started off writing this post in pure anger, and now i'm actually laughing!

and

enjoy your day everybody, and hopefully you note the sarcasm where it belongs.

clearly some SEVERE issues of english comprehension.... shall i continue?

Severe issues? Sounds like someone has difficulty handling the finer aspects of english

yourdictionary.com defines "anger" as: A strong feeling of displeasure or hostility.

synonyms for this word are: burn (up), enrage, incense1, infuriate, madden, provoke.

I'm glad you can use a dictionary, but that has nothing to do with this argument

i dunno... let's try reading THIS part twice.... do oyu see sarcasm there??? therefore.... Anger does not equal sarcasm.....

Sarcasm denotes anger in a subtle sense

I don't agree with sikhsoldier on his opinion of other people that aren't sikhs being able to do kirtan.

thanks for the information?

Interesting how you accuse me of selective reading

Sry he left/got account deleted, but I had NOTHING TO DO WITH IT. Don't need to explain myself, because if you think that I had something to do with it, your paranoid, but that's obvious from the way that you wrote the post above.

did you read your own post??? you're calling me paranoid! haha

I wrote the post, I know what I said. You're paranoid

I'll be angry for a minute with as much restraint as possible. Don't ever bring him into question. He has faced more punishment for something he didn't do, than anything anyone of us will have to face. He's been shunned, he's had to rebuild his life, and yet still noone but the people who have the facts accept him. Don't even try to disrespect him, because there are people here that will take offence to that for him. And you're damn right I'll defend him. DONT bring him up again.

interesting....first you say m y post was laced with anger.... and you come right bcak with no real facts....... not to mention that you're doing more selective reading.. it's interesting that out of that whole paragraph, you chose to qupte (and comment) on that, when clearly that wasn't even the focal point of my post.... nicely done...selective reading yet again..

Funny how you didn't even read my post. If you read the first sentence you'd see that I said I'm going to be angry, hell I still am. What you did was despicable.

Where did I say that amrithdharis that do bad deeds should still do kirtan? Where did I say Monai that are themselves better than amrithdharis shouldn't do kirtan?

this is the interesting part... clearly, to protect your reputation, you're not gonna come straight up and SAY something like that.... perhaps you should consider writing your posts in a different manner if that's NOT what you intended to say, but that's what all your posts screamed, otherwise all these people wouldn't have AGREED with my earlier post.

I don't need to protect my reputation, My reputation means nothing to me. Go ahead blast me, but don't try to zero in on my reputation as a basis for your agrument, that's mud-slinging.

I've divided them into two groups, good and bad. After that I took the good group and split that again into amrithdhari and monai. The group that I think should be doing kirtan on stage are the Good Amrithdharis, because they represent what sikhi should be and are the ones that should be lauded among the community, because the Good Amrithdharis are the ones that people should aspire to.

YAYY!! i was waiting for this one..thank you :umm: so... what you're saying is you have the right to know what everyone does, at all times of the day, at all times of the night, when they're in the shower, in the bathroom, in the library, in the park, washing their dishes, walking their dog....... because really..that's the only way you're gonna truly know which amritdharis are truly good and which are truly bad...

Obviously, someone has problems reading a post without jumping to conclusions. Where in that paragraph did I even say that I had to know what people do? Are you saying that what people do in private stay private? If that was true, there wouldn't be a such thing as secrets, and people wouldn't have found out about stuff like plans for '84. Or was that something made public for everyone to see? Read the paragraph, don't read into the paragraph

EXAMPLE: (i'm providing an example, cuz in your reply to me, you jumped the gun a couple of times..jus wanna slow this down for you)Anyone wanna see how you get people to follow you easily into an argument making it seem as if you're building up an argument? read the previous line. What he did was say that i'm an <banned word filter activated> and that I need special help in order to understand what he's saying. Or am I reading into it too much? anyone can be gupt.... i'm self-admittedly a manmukh cuz i KNOW the crap that i do that's not befitting of a gursikh... but when i go to gurdwara (at gurdwara moreso than at samagams, though i'm TRYING to change that too), i stay away from as many people as possible... in other words, i don't talk to anyone, i do my thing, and i leave... so if i can be gupt, anyone can be gupt... so in other words, even manmukhs can remain gupt in gurdwara.... even manmukhs can do seva in gurdwara, as sony bhenji pointed out so eloquently above... sometimes Guilt makes them do it... (should i expect comments that their seva is "wrong" cuz they're doing it cuz they feel they hafta?? or are you gonna see the point here..) point being, sometimes you can't jus tell a gursikh by lookin at em!Wrong again. Gurmukhs have a distinct natural quality about them unreplicated in anyone else ...so are you going to meddle in everyone's affairs?No, because that isn't necessary in order to know that a person is bad hire private investigators?Someone is going overboard... i know you do keertan, will you stop if you do things that are wrong? I pray that I can, but if I can't I hope I've chosen my friends well enough to show me that the error of my ways are you willing enough to not only spew your arguement, but swallow it too? If I wasn't, would I be arguing it? Or are you going to turn another question something you can o so easily turn into a statement for the other side?

maybe i should follow your idea of "GOOD PEOPLE ONLY", and make sure you only do good things..report it to some gursikhs?? Absolutley, it's not that hard to tell when someone is doing something wrong. or maybe some gurdwara committees..some jathedaars in AKJ FYI, Akj doesn't have any jathedaars, just a couple of gursikhs that people pay attention to more than other ones ...make sure you don't get ANY seva at all...right?? When someone comits a sin and goes to pesh, the panj will usually give a punishment, which will sometimes entail seva. For some seva is a blessing, for others it is atonement. If I err, I'd hope that I'd be lucky enough to do seva in guru's darbar

(note: before you go ape on me, and ignore my POINT YET AGAIN, i'm well aware i'm gonig to an extreme.. in english class, we learn something called "compare and contrast".... using an extreme example is an effective way to show the "contrast")

Gee, repeating something most of us have learned in the 6th grade? Feeling smart yet japmans? Compare and Contrast only works well with facts. Wha have you presented? Unfounded examples. Gupt manmukhs, are manmukhs nonetheless, and can be found to be manmukhs through one way or another, just as gupt gurmukhs can be. How was Guru Tegh Bahadur Ji found? I don't recall him putting up a banner or some special mark...

Yes, he does have the most sensible argument, and yet, he doesn't post in this topic anymore..... I wonder why. Maybe it might be because people refused to even read his posts thoroughly enough, they just started laying into him. And KB isn't one to fight back like that.

refuse to read posts throughly enough...hmmm.. now WHY is that ringing a bell with me.....

I don't know why is it? or should I retype that with sarcasm tags? [sarcasm] I don't know why is it? [/sarcasm]

and maybe you could do the sangat a favour and ask him to repost again, now that we're smartened up to your level..... and "read his posts thorughly".... (i.e..sarcasm..not anger..please see above) so that we can have a conversation about this again?

He wouldn't want to be dragged back into a fight where people ignored him for half of the thread.

And you call my arguments stupid? A five year old girl? I doubt she'd even know what an amrithdhari means. If she wants to do kirtan, by all means go ahead, but for a while it's the parents responsibility to push her towards becoming an amrithdhari as everyone's parents have to.

DESN'T KNOW WHAT AN AMRITDHARI IS?!?!? MANMAT!!! (shall i denote this as sarcasm, or did you figure it out?? Could you? Or do I too need to denote that as sarcasm?) plus, if we're not gonna talk about "implying" and go ONLY on what people SAID and DIDN'T say.... welll.. you NEVER SAID that the 5-yaer old doesn't count! It's common sense. You know, the reason why you don't put your hand on a hot stove

Keep on bashing Japmans, it doesn't show a pleasent side of you.

ok, NOW i'm just confused.. "keep on bashing"..sounds like encouragement.... "it doesn't show a pleasent (sic) side of you" denotes negativity... what are we saying here..... i mean, i know this is a sikh forum, but... do you find me attractive when i don't show a pleasant side??

If you can't speak with sweet speech, maybe none of should, especially since you're so willing to put innuendos in places where there need not be.

All in all... MAYBE... honestly, just a suggestion.... i mean, take it for what it's worth..... POSSIBLY....PERHAPS.... MAAAAAYYYYYYYYYBEEEEEE.. jus read my first post again?? maybe you'll really see what i was saying instead of donig the whole selective reading thing? I only read what catches my attention. I read every post in the topic. And I take the parts that are pertinant to this discussion. And yes, sometimes I pick on the stuff that doesn't matter to others as much as it matters to me. But that singh matters to me because he's had to keep on rebuilding his life. He could have quit, said to hell with it, and just stop trying, but he perservered. And he is an example of what it takes to be a true singh.

and yes, i responded to your post almost entirely, and yes, i'm aware i omitted some of your sentences.... that's not selective reading, that's commenting on the brunt of your points... i'm telling you from my HEART, that i wrote my first post with my HEART, and from my HEART, i'm telling you, you didn't even COMMENT SLIGHTLY on any of my points.... or very BARELY did anyways... Maybe you should have put your points with numbers in front of them in stead of your... wait what were they?

i'm thinking i should wish you a good night, just so you KNOW that i'm not "Angry"..although i wished you a good day before, and you stil thought i was angry....

Anger breeds anger

but.. umm... i love you? will that make it easier to understand? Just all the more confusing.

86615[/snapback]

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hahahaha okay..so have you got that outta your system? some reason you're STILL stuck on the unnamed singh!

i'm sorry if you haven't seen facts.. the whole thread has been laced with them... but... they've been mostly from the peolpe who believe in the same thing as i do... i had my own facts, htings i've seen with my own eyes...

i'm glad you feel that you've got the natural capability to see which people are also naturally gursikhs... but you still didn't adress ssk's idea of the 25 yaer old... his point was more valid than mine..

i'm not sure what you weer trying to say by mimicking me with all the [sarcasm] [/sarcasm] and stuff.... i actually did it so that you wouldn't misplace my emotions

secondly, i'm interested as to why you think i was attacking you, cuz fromm y post, i'm telling you, you jumped t he gun on a few things you said, that's why i put the example there.. i'm sorry it was too blunt for you, and that you took it as an insult..that is your perogative, not mine.

i would like to thank you for undermining my facts.... examples can not be conveyed without facts..... so i'm glad you saw my examples...

how come you got to decide what was common sense and what was not? had i said anything without wording it carefully, you would have (and actually did) jumped on my back.... chalo, your perogative, not mine!

i saw a point in what i said... i'm sorry i'm too blunt for you... but i actually MADE apoint... you havne't MADE a point... you've leapfrogged my point and talked about the Singh over...and over... and over again..... and YOU keep bringing it up, so don't tell me to stop bringing it up, i'm only replying to you!

i was using innuendo, you are correct..would you like to know why? i'll tell you.. it's because HUMOUR has a good way to keep the tension LIGHT.... i don't think there's muc NEED for TENSION.... so i made a JOKE.... of course, you took it in stride and decided it was some sort of anti-panthic, anti-gurmat comment that made you reply in the fashion you did...

i'm also glad that you think that all us normal folk are at the level of satguru tegh bahadur sahib ji....

i'm not addressing your post (whether original or second) anymore after this, cuz you still really haven't addressed my first one, so this is it for me as far as your posts are cnocerned, until you evenm ake so much as a conscious effort to READ my post and see what i was saying.... after all, you already attempted to denounce it, so clearlyyou were attempting to invoke a response from me, which you did....

have a good night, sweetheart.

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another thing...can we just all agree to disagree...

i mean...this argument is useless cuz seriously....if smartsingh is sitting in a gurdwara and a non amritdhari is doing kirtan...i severely doubt he'll have the balls to do something about it...

and japmans..why you getting upset for.....guess what...you know you're right, i know you're right...and so does tthe majority of the people here...so it's all good...and not only are you right...but as the current status quo goes ...

NON amritdharies DO kirtan...all the time...so basically not only are you right in your view...your views are the ones in practice...lets be thankful for that...

if smartsingh24 really feels strongly...or even thinks an iota of what he said is right...he'll go to akal takt and get things changed...until then...let's all be happy and listen to some kirtan....and i'll warn smartsingh24 in advance if the person is non amritdhari so he can make sure he doesn't enjoy it....it might even be a good time for him to get cha......

keep smiling........peace....

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Hi! My name is Pheena and I am a Mona.  i have a question.  I'm just learning Tabla, is it ok for me to play Tabla while someone (amritdhari) does kirtan?

86627[/snapback]

Do you follow your rehat to the max... do you follow strict exactly line by line what Sri Guru Granth sahib ji (our guru) says us to do... have you mastered and killed off the 5 evils... are you a full SIKH !?!?!

.....Yes or no .. whatever you have answered... the answer to your question is ...

YES !! :nihungsmile:

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that all depends on two things...

1. whether or not smartsingh24 gets akal takt to change things by the next samagam...

and 2...(assuming he doesnt)...all depends on how good you are by the next time i see you....

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actually minor correction...

akj does have jathedars....and that TITLE is used....obviously you've been out of the loop with the recent events in akj management...

86624[/snapback]

And if you've been paying attention to things, you'd realize that 1. the title was forced upon him because of a change in management, and that 2. This has nothing to do with what we're talking about.

hahahaha okay..so have you got that outta your system? some reason you're STILL stuck on the unnamed singh!

i'm sorry if you haven't seen facts.. the whole thread has been laced with them... but... they've been mostly from the peolpe who believe in the same thing as i do... i had my own facts, htings i've seen with my own eyes...

i'm glad you feel that you've got the natural capability to see which people are also naturally gursikhs...  but you still didn't adress ssk's idea of the 25 yaer old... his point was more valid than mine..

i'm not sure what you weer trying to say by mimicking me with all the [sarcasm] [/sarcasm] and stuff.... i actually did it so that you wouldn't misplace my emotions

secondly, i'm interested as to why you think i was attacking you, cuz fromm y post, i'm telling you, you jumped t he gun on a few things you said, that's why i put the example there.. i'm sorry it was too blunt for you, and that you took it as an insult..that is your perogative, not mine.

i would like to thank you for undermining my facts.... examples can not be conveyed without facts..... so i'm glad you saw my examples...

how come you got to decide what was common sense and what was not? had i said anything without wording it carefully, you would have (and actually did) jumped on my back.... chalo, your perogative, not mine!

i saw a point in what i said... i'm sorry i'm too blunt for you... but i actually MADE  apoint... you havne't MADE a point... you've leapfrogged my point and talked about the Singh over...and over... and over again..... and YOU keep bringing it up, so don't tell me to stop bringing it up, i'm only replying to you!

i was using innuendo, you are correct..would you like to know why? i'll tell you.. it's because HUMOUR has a good way to keep the tension LIGHT.... i don't think there's muc NEED for TENSION.... so i made a JOKE.... of course, you took it in stride and decided it was some sort of anti-panthic, anti-gurmat comment that made you reply in the fashion you did...

i'm also glad that you think that all us normal folk are at the level of satguru tegh bahadur sahib ji....

i'm not addressing your post (whether original or second) anymore after this, cuz you still really haven't addressed my first one, so this is it for me as far as your posts are cnocerned, until you evenm ake so much as a conscious effort to READ my post and see what i was saying.... after all, you already attempted to denounce it, so clearlyyou were attempting to invoke a response from me, which you did....

have a good night, sweetheart.

86625[/snapback]

W.e. japmans. I'm done, finished, whatever, spent. Go ahead and give people whatever kind of crap you want, this won't end good with them, but what the hell would i care, because according to JSS

another thing...can we just all agree to disagree...

i mean...this argument is useless cuz seriously....if smartsingh is sitting in a gurdwara and a non amritdhari is doing kirtan...i severely doubt he'll have the balls to do something about it...

and japmans..why you getting upset for.....guess what...you know you're right, i know you're right...and so does tthe majority of the people here...so it's all good...and not only are you right...but as the current status quo goes ...

NON amritdharies DO kirtan...all the time...so basically not only are you right in your view...your views are the ones in practice...lets be thankful for that...

if smartsingh24 really feels strongly...or even thinks an iota of what he said is right...he'll go to akal takt and get things changed...until then...let's all be happy and listen to some kirtan....and i'll warn smartsingh24 in advance if the person is non amritdhari so he can make sure he doesn't enjoy it....it might even be a good time for him to get cha......

keep smiling........peace....

86626[/snapback]

I don't have the balls to say anything. And you and japmans can go off and have cha whenever the hell you want, because it doesn't matter to me anymore, because it's evident that we aren't at the top of a slippery slope, we're half way down it. If you're too blind to see that, then I could care less. The stricter the rehat the better, I'm keeping myself close to it. Anyone else want to keep on diluting sikhism, be my guest.

Hi! My name is Pheena and I am a Mona.  i have a question.  I'm just learning Tabla, is it ok for me to play Tabla while someone (amritdhari) does kirtan?

86627[/snapback]

If you want to go ahead, but it isn't adviasable at gurdwara. Unless you're keshdhari, you're going to be giving an idea to all those little kids that wanna be just like you.

you people are all ridiculous, no one has bothered to even read posts before. Chaatrik even posted something that made more sense than whatever type of propoganda JSS and Japmans are feeding you. The only one's they even respected, everyone else just ignored. Good ridance to all of you, maybe the Admin will clean this whole topic up.

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i always wondered why people pretend not to care anymore when they run out of intelligent arguments....

like all of a sudden the topic doesn't become important to them...

also...i always wondered why people use words in the wrong context...it's like they don't know the meaning, but still want ot use it to look smart?...i don't get it...

like for example...the use of the word "propoganda"....it usually denotes framing the facts in a certain direction or trying to make things look like something they aren't....

but in our case...smartsingh...(oh this irony!!!)....has misused it when describing the posts made by myself and japmans....i don't see any propoganda any where....i do however see facts being presented...tied to logical conclusions...that's not propoganda actually ...that's called locigal reasoning....

and i wonder when people bring up irrelevant points up themselves and then when they are corrected about it...they start pointing out how irrelevant the point is....how smart is that???...do they think people have such bad memory that they'll forget which smart singh brought up the irrelevant yet erroneous point up?....

sheesh...

just some things i wonder about ...

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yet another thing i wonder about is why people say they're done with a certain thread, yet you can still see them viewing it later on....

that doesn't sound very honest to me....maybe according to some smart singhs...they shouldn't be doing kirtan.....

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