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The acadsmy has done so much for all of us kids . Just think all them kids who have got saved from janam maran ..... And think how many otherz will be saved aswell ! A beanteee to tge sangat whoz reading from a 13 ur old daughter of mata sahib kaur ji .. If this was our house we would save it this is the gurusgaarr !!!

Bhaji / Benji , Amrit is no tutti-gund - ie it is no feeble knot that can be undone easily. We all make mistakes, all of the time, we are bhoolan-haar. It is not as if you have taken a pair of scissors to your hair, not have you noshed on meat or alcohol or had an illicit affair, you have made a mistake, do ardaas and ask for forgiveness and then remove the guilt. You do not need to carry the guilt around with you all the time, we are not catholics Guru Ji is all forgiving, ask for forgiveness , be happy and then move on.

Im sold, i'll be happy to donate :rolleyes: . Would be good if someone from the Academy could give a daily update to the Sangat on the funds recieved/outstanding.

I do think it's realistic achievement particularly as some Gurdwaras are already doing this. Hitchin Singh Sabha are a great example of a progressive thinking committee. See the 'Accounts' section of their Gurdwara's website - www.sgssh.org. When the new naujwaan committee came in they wanted to be fully transparent and update the Sangat regularly. They created spreadsheets (accessible on their website), based on the previous 3/4 years accounts, which helps forecast their coming expenses and income. It is labour intensive at the outset to upload all previous accounts records and, as an ongoing requirement, they ensure the Gurdwara treasurer is commercial and excel-literate. However, it's a strong control mechanism. The Sangat get confidence from the transparency Hitchin Singh Sabha committee provide and the sewadars are able to create a realistic budget for what percentage of the Gurdwara's income they put towards Granthi wages, Parchaar, Youth, Maintenance and New capital projects, etc. This is definitely a great example of good practice all Gurdwaras can follow.

There's probably too many Sikh Organisations competing for the same £ and a significant amount of our Sikh resource could be saved if more Sikh Organisations pooled their resources and worked together. It does boil down to Panthic ekta and perhaps coalitions of Gurdwaras and Organisations will be more efficient for the Guru's Golak. I remember walking into the Parkash 2010 samagam at Guru Nanak School, Hayes and being inundated with people emotionally blackmailing me with direct debit/standing orders for Sikh charities, Channels, Gurdwaras, Organisations. I can see how it gets overwhelming for the average Sangat and can sometimes push individuals away. I know some families that will now not attend certain Gurdwaras/Organisatons because they feel that they are persistently pressurised in to increasing their standing orders and that's just counter productive for all the good work that's actually done by the sewadars of those Organisations. When the Gurdwara stages make continuous announcements at programmes for extra funding required for new projects or funding deficits that need to be covered, it is often done as a super quick wallet emptying exercise and just ends up winding members of the sangat up. This approach also needs to be addressed. Perhaps the sudden need for instant funding is due to a lack of foresight, forecasting, budgeting and planning by the custodians of the Gurdwaras. As mentioned above... financially embarrassing situations do not come about overnight, things must have gone wrong along the way but obvious signals were ignored. There needs to be a higher level of responsibility with regards to the Guru's Golak and sewadars need to be able to implement corrective action at very early stages before a financial situation escalates to the levels we are seeing at Sikh Channel and Mata Sahib Kaur Academy.

For those that are in contact with the people that are incharge at Mata Sahib Kaur Academy, could you please ask them to update their site to include the current finical situation? Because it would really help if people could go on there site and see the issue about funds and also at same time see what great work they are doing. If we do get all major Sikh channels and Sikh websites to raise awareness, we need a place we could send them online or over the phone so they can talk to someone if they need to. People donate more if they can really talk to the people going through the hard time. I know there is a meeting being held but putting more information online would help more people. LIke I am sure people want to know why did they wait so long before bring this to sangats awarness. the amount of money they are short is not pocket change, they should have seen this coming and began raising awareness months before this payment was due, preferablly when the got the first extension.

With recent funding pleas from the likes of Sikh Channel, Mata Sahib Kaur Academy and many other Gurdwara committing to more debt, it looks like it's so important that Sikh Insititutes address their longevity of financial survival. Sikh groups/Gurdwaras need to understand about maintaining a sustainable business model. It sounds very straightforward, but how do Sikh groups/Gurdwaras move smoothly from begging for money wherever it can to having a sustainable funding stream? I apologise for refering to Guru ji's Sewa as a business, but maybe by applying a commercial approach we may prevent ourselves from panicking with last minute threats of closure. Common business sense tells us that sustainability starts with planning, not with chasing funding. Gurdwaras must be run in a way where the custodians know exactly what they need, what it will cost and what their Gurdwara costs to run. They need to make sure their sums are right from the word go and refrain from making financial commitments with the Bank for any expansion if they are still struggling to meet their normal commitments. There is no need to expand or take out an additional loan if the Gurdwara/Organisation in it's current state is able to satisfy the moral obligation to Gurmat and Sikh Maryada. As Sangat, we must also demand accountability and implement controls/audits in the way our funds are utilised. This is something Sangat still shy away from. If you have donated £1000 of your hard earned money for sustainable Panthic sewa, then we must ensure that we are satisfied that £1000 has been put to efficient use. Many committee/sewadars remain unchallenged about mismanagement of the Guru's Golak and they simply carry on misusing the Sangats money.Unfortunately, it seems, nowadays some Gurdwaras underestimate the costs involved. In the end, the very thing that was supposed to be earning a sustainable income starts costing the Sangat money. And before you know it the Gurdwara/Organisations spends more time and energy chasing money to keep what was once its brilliant sustainable funding idea alive than it does fulfilling its Gurmat aims. Also, due to our increasing splits, there are a lot of Gurdwaras/Organisations golak's out there chasing the same Sangat's funds, and this sort of increasing competition quickly erodes the reliability of those donations being available. Common sense also tells us that if we pool our funding together, then it's likely to go further. But we are stuck in a culture of setting up new Gurdwaras and not working with each other. Sikhs are a financially successful community and we are quite a philanthropic bunch, we do donate large sums in the Guru's golaks. There is therefore a a strong steady flow of regular donations available from the Sikh sangat and it needs be utilised in an efficient, responsible manner.

Your basing your post on two extremes. Why not take the middle path between these two extremes. Where you look at the person personality, which will change and and put more weight on the person view on Sikhi and how strong they are in Sikhi. It's not an either or decision to be made, where these traits in a person are pinned against each other, but work together to show what kind of person he or she is. If they can't stand on Sikhi together, then these two should not get married. But if personality difference is not shared to the last digit, this don't mean they should break it off. Like said before personality changes and as long as the couple keep there feet grounded on Sikhi teachings, they will have an actual marriage where problems arise, but their Gurmat paths will help them resolve and become stronger. There are so many marriages falling apart that just went on personality of the person. And there is nothing wrong with parents picking a person for their son or daughter as long as the parents have their son or daughters best interest at heart and know what they want in their spouse.

waheguru ji ka khalsa , waheguru ji ke fateah ! Ive been cumin academy for 2 yrs and yh i was in Sikhi b4 but not as much da academy has been a influence on me ..... It has been such a experience it has changed not only ma life but so many otherz lifez as well . I noi so many other kids tey wearnt in sikhi tey were mona, Now them same kids have taken amrit recently .... WHICH WAS AMAZING 2 SEE SUCH A CHANGE !!! Even thier families are getting into Sikhi ... The academy is such a amazing gurdwara where kids get to do EVERYTING !! for example .. chor sahib, largar di seva ,amrit vela seva, jap ji sahib role, Shastar di seva & SO MANY MORE !!! tHE GREAT TING BOUT THE mATA sAHIB Kaur Sikh AcADEMY IS ITZ ALL BASED ON THE KIDS FUTURE !!! if we let the mata sahib kaur sikh academy shut dwn the nxt generation WILL WONT HAV A CLUE BOUT SIKIHI !! jst a beantee to every1 from ahh 13 yr old daughter of Than Than Than Sri GuRU Gobind Singh Ji ... If thiz was our house will we let it go .. or will we do everyting we can & EVEN MORE ?? well tiz is da gurugar how can we let tiz happen ...GOD ON EARTH RESIDES ON DA takht !!!! .... Plz save the mata sahib kaur sikh academy JST IMAGINE HOW TEM KIDS WILL FEEL HU NRV EVEN HAD A TRUE TASTE OF SIKHI ......................... PLZ PLZ PLZ PLZ PLZ PLZ !!! SAVE DA ACADEMY waheguru ji ka khalsa , whageuru ji ki fateah

Makes your heart sink at what could've been. The British have a lot to answer for.

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good timing aman0001 ji and a fair point. if you need any info pm me. im not from east london, or have had anything to do with the setting up of the academy, i simply spent some time there in the summer due to a work placement near there. So my experiences are first hand and i left there quite amazed and happy, and came back home telling all the local singhs that we should go there to help out. I think the only way you can appreciate what these gursikhs are doing is by seeing it first hand.

I agree but in order to survive the period in between now and the next 20/30 years, there does need to be some kind of austerity implementation or review of the way Gurdwaras seem to fund themselves. Something I think which is more and more common is that some Gurdwaras or Sikh organisations are after your direct debits with some kind of emotional story that there is a funding gap due to a bank loan and there is a short time frame to pay of a substantially large sum back to the bank. It is getting more and more common to see Gurdwaras taking on massive financial commitments in form of debt, refinancing and remortgages. Most financially embarrassing situations or debt does not arise overnight. It is usually a build-up of the maverick management of funds and an over excited approach to taking on more bank loans. I think many of our Gurdwaras are already adequately supporting the sangat but there is a competitive trend for the need to show progression in the form of capital intensive projects such as a better looking Gurdwara or more facilities (halls, extensions etc.). There is also a lack of personal accountability from some of the people running Gurdwaras and Sikh organisations. I think they still do not understand the huge commitment to managing the Sangat's donations. They should not feel the need to show the sangat that our Gurdwaras need to be bigger or a new studio is needed or even a nursery is required if the funds do not exist. We should be living within our means and within the constraints of what funding our sangat provide not what the banks give us, even if this means the Gurdwaras remaining humble buildings.

Yes veerji I agree. Some people dont look like they love Sikhi or are religious but you would be surprised at how many people do.

HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! :D :D :D :D :D ehda paththaa behje!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Just look at the end of the video he looks like his in TELETUBBY LAND....lol :lol: :lol: :lol:

and heres another big problem we face??MARRIAGE... if its not i want to committ suicide or i cant handle the slightest stress of life... 108 Sri Maan Sant Baba Nand Ji once said "if a married Gursikhni does only 1 months bhaghti, she will get the fruit of 13 years that a saint would do" In my opinion marriage is one of the best things that could happen in life, and thats why Guru Sahib calls marriage Anand Karaj

But what about the insistence from some people that being a householder is the only acceptable way of living for a Gursikh? I'm not doubting your words, brother. I'm still looking for answers to these questions to satiate my curiosity in regards to this topic. I thought marriage was not debatable in Sikhi.

Bhaji, stop humouring me. I'm a pappi. It is people such as yourself who will lead us.

yes, i am getting a strong feeling that you are going to be one such leader, Guru Kirpa.

there is a solution, it is called knowledge/education. Somewhere along the way the primal point for the community, the gurdwara, has lost its function as the greatest university in the world. The gurdwara's have become businesses to pander for every whim of sikhs, as long as they pay. this is why we have gone wrong. Gurdwaras need to teach gurmat, and also implore the sangat to uphold the khalsa ideals. i will give you 1, but very major example a child is born, the parents do an akhand paath, pay the money and gone. But it is never said from Guru's stage, "that you parents have been given a gift from Waheguru, and it is your duty to keep this child on gurmat marg, as long as it is in your care. So the first step of the parents is to keep its hair. Do not ever contemplate cutting your child's hair, for it will bring great sin of you both, but not the child..." the gurdwaras will never say this, cos they want the money more than the child growing up to be a kesadhari sikh. do you understand this? Gurdawaras have to get themsleves on track first, and then the rest will improve.

yes i understand, but the greater issue in your post is that you show no understanding of parents and their duty of seeing their child is married. in our religion, marriage is very important, and our Guru's were married by their parents, but the joy as well of parents seeing their children married is immense. what is stopping young sikhs getting married today? they worry about stuff like compatiblity, with 100% shared interests or that their husband/wife has to have movie star looks etc. this is not what gurmat is about. Where there is 1 sikh, there is 1 sikh, but where there are 2 there is a sangat, so marriage is symbolic of permanent sangat between man and his wife(s), or between a woman and her husband(s).

Bhenji I agree with you completely, but let me just play Devil's advocate for a bit. What if marriage is not written in one's karam, but one's parents are hell-bent on seeing their child get married? I know you could argue that Waheguru is working through the parents to ensure that the person in question gets married, but then it comes down to the person having no control over their destiny (if there is such a concept). He or she isn't making the decision of whether to get married - the parent's are pulling the strings. If left to the youngster, all talk of marriage would stop and nobody would do anything, but because the parents are in control, the path of marriage is travelled even if it may not bear fruit in the future. Does anyone understand what I'm waffling on about?

marriage is very important, shrest dharam is gresht dharam, loosely translated as highest duty is family duty. i dont know what is wrong with some younger sikhs today, very reluctant to get married, but they are not aware of the future implications this has on the panth.

Siding with any organisation - even supposedly "well-meaning" Sikh groups as exposed by Southhall Youth (:D) - just isn't for me. I prefer to keep my own council and the only Sikh "organisation" I'll ever belong to is the one Waheguru has directed me towards - the Sikhi faith. All the others are just.....well you simply don't know who believes what, or what your fellow members are up to. No offence to anyone who is a member of any such groups.

again these values and moral stance is not permanent and change in a instant. Even Gurbani is testament to this. So a young man/woman steadfast in sikhi, may not like this or feel the same way he/she does in their 30s/40s the way they felt in their teens/20s. As for assessing someone's personality, this will take you your whole life. The personality of a person again is not permanent.

Why is marriage so important to some of you? It should be the individual's decision, rather than just something that is expected because it has become a social norm. If you do not find a partner who you love and who loves you, then why should you be expected to marry into a loveless marriage? In our culture, women are encouraged to blindly obey their husbands, whom often the parents have chosen because of the man's family status or something. Is there anything wrong with remaining a single, strong and independent woman throughout your life? I don't think there is. I understand the argument for procreation – as you say, apparently "our kind" are questioning marriage which will thus have repercussions for the panth in the future. Although, I have not met one Sikh who hasn't got married or who isn't completely infatuated with the idea of marriage, so i don't see why it's a problem that a few individuals are making the decision to remain unmarried. The individual's decision not to get married could be fuelled by many personal factors, and so to look down on Sikhs who choose not to follow this norm is very narrow minded. "what is stopping sikhs getting married today? they worry about stuff like compatiblity, with 100% shared interests or that their husband/wife has to have movie star looks etc" What is wrong with taking the compatibility of your potential life partner into account? Is it not important to have shared interests, or doesn't it matter if you like your husband/ wife at all? This ideology seems to be very backwards, in support for the traditional loveless arranged marriages. You should not just settle for anyone to spend your life with. You must realise and respect that it is not every woman's purpose in life to have a family or a husband.

research what is the status of love between man and woman, in gurmat and you will get your answer to this. i beleive that kuljit singh has written an essay about this somewhere on the net, if anyone knows where it it, copy and paste here for sangat benefit. compatability or shared interests can become incompatibility and different interests the next day between man and wife. They are not stable, but your primary shared interest should be Sikhi, and both man and wife will learn to adjust to each others needs after mariage, that is why we are humans and not animals. it isnt the ONLY way, it is the prefered or best way. yes the great Saint, Ishar Singh Rara wale was asked about the difference in doing paath/naam abhiyaas between householders and celibates, and his Holiness gave the answer, that celibates have to do 12 years of abhiyaas to equal one year of abhiyaas by householder sikhs. So a Bhenji said on this topic she and her sister do naam simran when they come from work but can you imagine her doing Rehraas Sahib 12 times? or panj banias 12 times in the morning. there isnt one.

I think another issue I'd like to bring to the table, is that if a person is honest about their nature, and appreciates that they really like the "lure of flesh", then it is best to get married. I'm not saying there's anything wrong with these earthly relations - its just that you may as well have a socially acceptable (and religiously accepted) outlet for your desires if one is that way inclined. But if you're not really fussed about these kind of issues, and such relations aren't your "cup of tea" (for whatever reason) then I suppose there's no harm in not entering the married way of life. After reading the myriad of equally valid views and opinions from the sangat in this thread, I've come to the conclusion that the best solution is to seek a life partner. However, if such a journey does not bear fruit, then I guess there's no shame in remaining single. (Just my opinion - most likely far from the truth but still my opinion).

Of course, people change to some extent and people's interests change. That doesn't change the fact that some people's personalities are more compatible with eachother. A person's values and morality give you an indication of their personality, what they'd be like as a potential partner.. a whole depth of information. So they should be taken into consideration, rather than everyone just marrying said person who you don't even like because your parents want you to. Pfft. The bit in bold, well i completely disagree with that. I have lots of evidence to suggest that that's not the case at all, and it's a very backwards view that doesn't work in practice.

I am really Jeolous of u guys doing such interesting things.Out here all people can think of is think of earning ways to earn money,struggle for admission to a college which takes the entire youth time,or if they dont have any work go about fighting gangwars with other sikhs or others.