Leaderboard

Bhaji, there has been months of dialogue with th GNSS Gurdwara. This has been led by Representatives of Midlands Gurdwaras who have taken a very respectful approach it attempting to resolve the situation and have also taken the initiative to include the police to mediate. All proactive steps have been taken by Gurdwara representatives and Satkaar Sevadaars. On the other hand GNSS Dudley have avoided, misrepresented and refused to meet and work towards adhering to Akal Takht Maryada. Over the campaign, there has been only one protest, Satkaar Sevadaars have tried their upmost to avoid such protests and I am sure they still are working towards avoiding the protest, but GNSS are adamant to have the party on the 28th. There will be no other optuion but to peacefully protest on that day. While you carry on doing Guruji's beadbi? Sorry doesnt work that way

Waheguru Ji Ka Khalsa Waheguru Ji Ki Fateh! On behalf of the UK Sangat, sewadaars would like to re-iterate the PEACEFUL nature of the Rally to be held at 2pm on Saturday 28 May 2011 outside Gurdwara Guru Nanak Singh Sabha, 118 Wellington Road, Dudley. DY1 1UB. Sewadaars of the Campaign are in continuous dialogue with West Midlands Police working towards a respectful and peaceful gathering. Please keep us informed regarding coaches and mini-buses so that we are able to appropriately advise West Midlands Police about parking and effective use of their resource. Waheguru Ji Ka Khalsa Waheguru Ji Ki Fateh!

SukhdevSinghMedare, This is not a tug of war of egos or about some political compromise as you seem to attempt to portray this. And to think we are promoting a division of the the Panth based on "liberalism" is naive in my opinion. The Panths foundation is based on Gurmat ideals but in my opinion Dudley Committee are building their foundations with weak materials of Manmat rather than Gurmat. The desire to serve alcohol, meat and promote a belligerent atmosphere in the property of Guru Nanak is an opinion based on Manmat purely on their own ego, pride and only based on their own personal needs and desires. I'm sorry if that accusations hurts you or your family members. You talk about liberation, but today we have all forgotten that Gurmat is about liberation - liberation from the cycles of birth and death in which we chase our tail, liberation from the five urges that we worship rather than Waheguru, liberation from mythologies, liberation from addictions of alcohol and drugs, liberation from social pressures, liberation from male exploitation of women, religious persecution, racial injustice, caste segregation and oppression of spiritual human rights. The entire Sikh path is a process of spiritual transformation of human soul from 'Manmukh' to 'Gurmukh'. The teachings of the Great Gurus are for the human beings irrespective of their caste and creed. Our great Gurus blessed us with a way of life. The Gurus imbibed a new spirit in our lives and consoled us and explained to us the spiritual realities and brought us out from worldly illusions. The Gurus prayed to Waheguru to bless the Sikh for their welfare and goodness, so that the people may not suffer from worldly temptations. The Gurus even paved a way towards the salvation of Sikhs as human beings. We could be teaching our community these amazing things but no, Dudley Gurdwara Committee want to promote getting drunk in their COMMUNITY CENTRE whilst dancing to a song about a young womans waistline! Dudley Committee can self-justify their own desires to remain in the realms of Manmat as "modernity" or "social progression" but the reality is they are not only destroying their own jeevans but destroying the jeevans of generations who will be born in their own households. The committee have a blessing and a moral obligation as caretakers of a Guru Ghar, they have a stronger chance to be free of all the Manmat of the world but instead they waste this jewel of an opportunity. The tuks that come to my mind is in Sri Anand Sahib when Guru Amar Das Maharaj tells us about the KUTAMB (the drama of life) and says aisaa kamm moolay na keechai jit ant pachhotaa-ee-ai. Don't do anything that you will regret in the end. satguroo kaa updays sun too hovai tayrai naalay. Listen to the Teachings of the True Guru - these shall go along with you.

Sārag mėhlā 5. Saarang, Fifth Mehl: ਬਿਖਈ ॥ बिखई दिनु रैनि इव ही गुदारै ॥ Bikẖ▫ī ḏin rain iv hī guḏārai. The corrupt person passes his days and nights uselessly. ਗੋਬਿੰਦੁ ॥ गोबिंदु न भजै अह्मबुधि माता जनमु जूऐ जिउ हारै ॥१॥ रहाउ ॥ Gobinḏ na bẖajai ahaʼn▫buḏẖ māṯā janam jū▫ai ji▫o hārai. ||1|| rahā▫o. He does not vibrate and meditate on the Lord of the Universe; he is intoxicated with egotistical intellect. He loses his life in the gamble. ||1||Pause|| ਨਾਮੁ ॥ नामु अमोला प्रीति न तिस सिउ पर निंदा हितकारै ॥ Nām amolā parīṯ na ṯis si▫o par ninḏā hiṯkārai. The Naam, the Name of the Lord, is priceless, but he is not in love with it. He loves only to slander others. ਛਾਪਰੁ ॥੧॥ छापरु बांधि सवारै त्रिण को दुआरै पावकु जारै ॥१॥ Cẖẖāpar bāʼnḏẖ savārai ṯariṇ ko ḏu▫ārai pāvak jārai. ||1|| Weaving the grass, he builds his house of straw. At the door, he builds a fire. ||1|| ਕਾਲਰ ॥ कालर पोट उठावै मूंडहि अम्रितु मन ते डारै ॥ Kālar pot uṯẖāvai mūʼndėh amriṯ man ṯe dārai. He carries a load of sulfur on his head, and drives the Ambrosial Nectar out of his mind. ਓਢੈ ॥੨॥ ओढै बसत्र काजर महि परिआ बहुरि बहुरि फिरि झारै ॥२॥ Odẖai basṯar kājar mėh pari▫ā bahur bahur fir jẖārai. ||2|| Wearing his good clothes, the mortal falls into the coal-pit; again and again, he tries to shake it off. ||2|| ਕਾਟੈ ॥ काटै पेडु डाल परि ठाढौ खाइ खाइ मुसकारै ॥ Kātai ped dāl par ṯẖādẖou kẖā▫e kẖā▫e muskārai. Standing on the branch, eating and eating and smiling, he cuts down the tree. ਗਿਰਿਓ ॥੩॥ गिरिओ जाइ रसातलि परिओ छिटी छिटी सिर भारै ॥३॥ Giri▫o jā▫e rasāṯal pari▫o cẖẖitī cẖẖitī sir bẖārai. ||3|| He falls down head-first and is shattered into bits and pieces. ||3|| ਨਿਰਵੈਰੈ ॥ निरवैरै संगि वैरु रचाए पहुचि न सकै गवारै ॥ Nirvairai sang vair racẖā▫e pahucẖ na sakai gavārai. He bears vengeance against the Lord who is free of vengeance. The fool is not up to the task. <A class=dict onmouseover="ddrivetip('iKaho /i Say, speak', 250)" onmouseout=hideddrivetip() href="http://www.srigranth.org/servlet/gurbani.dictionary?Param=ਕਹੁ" ;>ਕਹੁ ਨਾਨਕ ਸੰਤਨ ਕਾ ਰਾਖਾ ਪਾਰਬ੍ਰਹਮੁ ਨਿਰੰਕਾਰੈ ॥੪॥੧੦॥ कहु नानक संतन का राखा पारब्रहमु निरंकारै ॥४॥१०॥ Kaho Nānak sanṯan kā rākẖā pārbarahm nirankārai. ||4||10|| Says Nanak, the Saving Grace of the Saints is the Formless, Supreme Lord God. ||4||10||

Sārag mėhlā 5. Saarang, Fifth Mehl: ਬਿਖਈ ॥ बिखई दिनु रैनि इव ही गुदारै ॥ Bikẖ▫ī ḏin rain iv hī guḏārai. The corrupt person passes his days and nights uselessly. ਗੋਬਿੰਦੁ ॥ गोबिंदु न भजै अह्मबुधि माता जनमु जूऐ जिउ हारै ॥१॥ रहाउ ॥ Gobinḏ na bẖajai ahaʼn▫buḏẖ māṯā janam jū▫ai ji▫o hārai. ||1|| rahā▫o. He does not vibrate and meditate on the Lord of the Universe; he is intoxicated with egotistical intellect. He loses his life in the gamble. ||1||Pause|| ਨਾਮੁ ॥ नामु अमोला प्रीति न तिस सिउ पर निंदा हितकारै ॥ Nām amolā parīṯ na ṯis si▫o par ninḏā hiṯkārai. The Naam, the Name of the Lord, is priceless, but he is not in love with it. He loves only to slander others. ਛਾਪਰੁ ॥੧॥ छापरु बांधि सवारै त्रिण को दुआरै पावकु जारै ॥१॥ Cẖẖāpar bāʼnḏẖ savārai ṯariṇ ko ḏu▫ārai pāvak jārai. ||1|| Weaving the grass, he builds his house of straw. At the door, he builds a fire. ||1|| ਕਾਲਰ ॥ कालर पोट उठावै मूंडहि अम्रितु मन ते डारै ॥ Kālar pot uṯẖāvai mūʼndėh amriṯ man ṯe dārai. He carries a load of sulfur on his head, and drives the Ambrosial Nectar out of his mind. ਓਢੈ ॥੨॥ ओढै बसत्र काजर महि परिआ बहुरि बहुरि फिरि झारै ॥२॥ Odẖai basṯar kājar mėh pari▫ā bahur bahur fir jẖārai. ||2|| Wearing his good clothes, the mortal falls into the coal-pit; again and again, he tries to shake it off. ||2|| ਕਾਟੈ ॥ काटै पेडु डाल परि ठाढौ खाइ खाइ मुसकारै ॥ Kātai ped dāl par ṯẖādẖou kẖā▫e kẖā▫e muskārai. Standing on the branch, eating and eating and smiling, he cuts down the tree. ਗਿਰਿਓ ॥੩॥ गिरिओ जाइ रसातलि परिओ छिटी छिटी सिर भारै ॥३॥ Giri▫o jā▫e rasāṯal pari▫o cẖẖitī cẖẖitī sir bẖārai. ||3|| He falls down head-first and is shattered into bits and pieces. ||3|| ਨਿਰਵੈਰੈ ॥ निरवैरै संगि वैरु रचाए पहुचि न सकै गवारै ॥ Nirvairai sang vair racẖā▫e pahucẖ na sakai gavārai. He bears vengeance against the Lord who is free of vengeance. The fool is not up to the task. <A class=dict onmouseover="ddrivetip('iKaho /i Say, speak', 250)" onmouseout=hideddrivetip() href="http://www.srigranth.org/servlet/gurbani.dictionary?Param=ਕਹੁ" ;>ਕਹੁ ਨਾਨਕ ਸੰਤਨ ਕਾ ਰਾਖਾ ਪਾਰਬ੍ਰਹਮੁ ਨਿਰੰਕਾਰੈ ॥੪॥੧੦॥ कहु नानक संतन का राखा पारब्रहमु निरंकारै ॥४॥१०॥ Kaho Nānak sanṯan kā rākẖā pārbarahm nirankārai. ||4||10|| Says Nanak, the Saving Grace of the Saints is the Formless, Supreme Lord God. ||4||10||

One request to all the sangat organisers : There will be people there who will infiltrate the sangat and cause trouble. They will cause trouble by inciting people to voilence, they may even try causing trouble themselves but of course the intention being to tar the whole sangat. The organisers will need to appoint sevadhars to be on the look out for such people and to point them out to the police. Sevadhars will need to be proactive. There needs to be plenty of people recording the whole event, especially recording the rants of the other side.

Thats not a very nice thing to say. How patronizing.

Hanji - it is most important that it remains peaceful. These people at Dudley, as they did at Grays, will try to provoke the sangat into a reaction for which they will then seek to label the sangat as extremist Sikhs. Let's not fall for their games. Being disciplined and showing Gursikh virtues and values will send a much more powerful message, than indiscipline, swearing and shouting at the Dudley committee.

Waheguru Ji Ka Khalsa Waheguru Ji Ki Fateh!! The protest will be peaceful because the singhs and singhnis attending will be fully focused on Kirtan, Simiran and Katha and Chaupai Sahib Paths. Sri Guru Granth Sahib Ji will bless those who recite Gurbani and in turn stand up for Sri Guru Granth Sahib Ji. Please bring Baajas, Tablas & chimtey so the sangat can do kirtan and focus on the feet of Guruji!

By reading SukhdevSinghMedare posts, i made my mind to attend the rally.. :khalsa:

ਲਿਖਿਆ ਆਇਆ ਪਕੜਿ ਚਲਾਇਆ ਮਨਮੁਖ ਸਦਾ ਦੁਹੇਲੇ ॥

Mr Medare - I think you must have cucumber on your eyes or something. 3 meetings have been held held or been attempted to be held over the last 3 or so months to explain to them through dialogue. Meeting 1: By Satkaar Sevadaars - the committee ended up getting very abusive to the youth. Meeting 2: By all West Midlands Gurdwara leaders - at first the committee refused to meet, and then only did so for a short while after keeping the parbandhiks waiting for more than an hour. At this meeting, the Dudley committee knowingly gave false promises, which they immediately broke the next day. Meeting 3: This was again going to be arranged by the police, though the committee said they did not want to meet the Gurdwara leaders. The Dudley committee have refused dialogue or to listen to the Sikh sangat or akal takht. Peaceful protest has only arisen after all other means have failed.

I dont see a problem in wearing churrah its a cultural thing and a symbol of newly married woman ... i dont think how it affects you spirtualy ... if u cant go to gurdwara or read ur bani or do naam simren ... then wearing churah is wrong if it doesnt do that then it doesnt matter ... traditional punjabi women's dress was a ghagra ... one should ash her grandmother when she was young what women use to wear answer will be given ... suit comes from afgani and kashmiri people ... looking at the history suit can be classified as more a muslim women dress then a sikh women dress ... what ever u wear it doesnt matter it should be above the line ... lehngha saari or suit ... some one posted hukamanama of bhai daya singh may be whose ever translated it has more naam simren then bhai daya singh so he added word jwellery to it ... it calls shinghar thats make up ... wear simple makeup ... some people dont know what is make up they classify even kajal as makeup where history records mata ji use to put kajal even in the eyes of guru gobind singh ji ... jewellery yes its allowed it should also be in the line of not showing of ...

Press Release and Sangat Update Dudley, UK - 14 May 2011 www.SatkaarCampaign.blogspot.com Saturday 28 May 2011: Peaceful rally at GNSS Dudley Gurdwara All Sangat requested to recite Chaupai Sahib prayer in advance and attend the PEACEFUL RALLY Waheguru Ji Ka Khalsa Waheguru Ji Ki Fateh! It is with great regret that the UK Sangat is informed that the Guru Nanak Singh Sabha (GNSS) Dudley Gurdwara committee have taken a booking for a party, which will permit alcohol, meat and dancing, to be held at the Sikh Cultural Centre on Saturday 28 May 2011. This has occurred after months of attempted discussions and negotiations by both the Satkaar Campaign and UK Sikh community leaders to persuade the GNSS Dudley Gurdwara committee to follow Gurmat Maryada and the 2006 Sandesh issued by Akal Takhat Sahib. The history of this entire episode can be read on our blog. As all attempts of dialogue with the committee have failed, the UK Sikh Community, supported by leading UK Gurdwaras and all Panthic Jathebandiaan, will be holding a PEACEFUL RALLY at GNSS Dudley Gurdwara on Saturday 28 May 2011 from 2pm, the aim of which will be to raise awareness to the GNSS Dudley Gurdwara committee of their obligation to Sri Guru Granth Sahib Ji Maharaaj, Akal Takhat Sahib and the Sikh Nation. The UK Sikh Sangat is requested to attend this peaceful rally to advance the Satkaar for Sri Guru Granth Sahib Ji Maharaaj and to protest against the gross sacrilege that the GNSS Dudley Gurdwara committee are intending to permit and promote. Further details in relation to peaceful rally, including the protocol that must be observed, will be provided in the coming days on our blog. Please keep checking the blog for further information and updates in respect of the peaceful rally. The UK Sikh Community are also humbly requested to recite the Chaupai Sahib prayer as much as possible in the run up to the peaceful rally, as it is only with Guru Ji's blessings that the Sikh Nation will successfully reach a resolution in this matter. Waheguru Ji Ka Khalsa Waheguru Ji Ki Fateh! See previous thread for history on the issue. http://www.sikhsangat.com/index.php?/topic/58393-dudley-gurdwara-update/

Ive just decided im attending the rally...after seeing this fOols posts (Mr Medare)....does anyone know if there is a coach going from southall for this protest or do we have to arrange our own transport?

mÚ 3 ] ma 3 || Third Mehla: ikAw jwxw ikv mrhgy kYsw mrxw hoie ] kiaa jaanaa kiv marehagae kaisaa maranaa hoe || What do I know? How will I die? What sort of death will it be? jy kir swihbu mnhu n vIsrY qw sihlw mrxw hoie ] jae kar saahib manahu n veesarai thaa sehilaa maranaa hoe || If I do not forget the Lord Master from my mind, then my death will be easy. mrxY qy jgqu frY jIivAw loVY sBu koie ] maranai thae jagath ddarai jeeviaa lorrai sabh koe || The world is terrified of death; everyone longs to live. gur prswdI jIvqu mrY hukmY bUJY soie ] gur parasaadhee jeevath marai hukamai boojhai soe || By Guru's Grace, one who dies (from the inside) while yet alive (with in the human body), understands the Lord's Will. nwnk AYsI mrnI jo mrY qw sd jIvxu hoie ]2] naanak aisee maranee jo marai thaa sadh jeevan hoe ||2|| O Nanak, one who dies such a death, lives forever. ||2||

ਜੇ ॥ जे को जनम मरण ते डरै ॥ Je ko janam maraṇ ṯe darai. If you fear the cycle of birth and death, <a class="dict" href="http://www.srigranth.org/servlet/gurbani.dictionary?Param=ਸਾਧ" ;="">ਸਾਧ ਜਨਾ ਕੀ ਸਰਨੀ ਪਰੈ ॥ साध जना की सरनी परै ॥ Sāḏẖ janā kī sarnī parai. then seek the Sanctuary of the Holy.

you would think sukhdev being a doctor he would know cigarettes and booze would be bad for ones health.

Yo geeza sukhdev chill out. Its up to the committee to stop there ways and there will b not protest simply as.

AK-47, on 24 May 2011 - 06:32 PM, said: For someone who claimed to be a doctor, this guy seems to find an awful lot of time during the working day to reply to posts on this message board!! No wonder the health service is in such a mess! I wonder what the BMA would say lol lol lol

For someone who claimed to be a doctor, this guy seems to find an awful lot of time during the working day to reply to posts on this message board!! No wonder the health service is in such a mess! I wonder what the BMA would say!

sukhdev, you talk about liberalism yet it appears you don't want to extend it to the right of the sangat to voice their opposition to the dudley committee in the form of this protest you talk about the matter being for dudley people only yet you continually spout off your ill-informed nonsense on this forum even though by your own admission you haven't lived in dudley for 20 years! what's it all got to do with you then by your own argument? you talk about the origin of donations made to a gurdwara; if you feel so strongly about the issue why don't you take up the matter with the akal takht to give you a ruling on the issue you talk about wanting to make a living for your family yet judging from the number of your posts today it appears you have spent your day behind your keyboard even though you refuse to state your position on whether you believe meat and alcohol should be served on gurdwara premises the truth is the diversionary tactics used by you on this forum and your dudley committee wale will not work; you clearly are educated to some level and you want us all to know you know what subsidiarity means and that you can cut and paste poems written by wordsworth yet you don't seem able to grasp the simplest of facts of this situation which are these - 1. the dudley gurdwara is permitting meat and alcohol to be consumed in premises which are owned/managed by it 2. this is forbidden in the sikh faith as expressly provided in the akal takht sandesh of 2006 3. a wide spectrum of other gurdwaras and sikh organisations in the west midlands region have attempted to meet with the dudley committee and discuss the matter with them but the dudley committee has refused 4. the akal takht has mandated all sikhs to take all steps to implement the 2006 sandesh 5. the sikh community from dudley and beyond will protest against the actions of the dudley committee this saturday

Sukhdev Singh Medare, I want to say thank you to you for showing me just how necessary this protest is.

Those Table beats and soft voice sound so good !

Guru Ji is actually being robbed of its future sangat who are disallusioned and confused by inept gurdwara commitees like this one.......where as other gurdwara in the area have thriving community centres dudley has a party hall with no youth activities or support network for people who have just left school college or are returning from university......or need help.......information from individuals who live in dudley say that this centre serves a few old people who play cards during the weekday and some ladies fitness sessions and they get a free meal which they could easily get at the gurdwara......young people and those who have children are not allowed to go near this centre so do not go to the gurdwara as wel.....you surely can't be that blind to see that this is a ego driven self interest committee/agenda....the average age of the sangat is 65-80 years old whats gonna happen when they all start dying....who will look after the gudwara and centre then ?? actually i have a good idea why don't the commitee sell the centre to the muslims for £2 they will make a 100% profit and the dudley mosque issue will be resolved!!!

I'm not saying non-turban wearing Sikhs cannot be Sikhs, but our Guru ji tells us dastaar is compulsory, so a Sikh must follow his Guru's Hukams.

SAYING THE ABOVE, are you even a Sikh? Guru Gobind Singh Ji says: "Rehni Rahae, So-ee Sikh Mera. Oh Sahib, Mae Us Ka Chaera".

Bhaji if you refer to the protocol issued by Satkaar for the day: - Sikhs must show restraint and conduct themselves respectfully even when addressing the Gurdwara Committee members and their supporters, the Police or any attendees of the Party. Do not engage in any arguments or debates

Some Singhs from up North met the Jathedaars last night at Shepherd's Bush Gurdwara. I hear they fully endorsed the Satkaar Campaign, and the Singhs said they have this on video. On Monday night, the Jathedaars were asked to take strict action against Dudley, and they they gave an undertaking that they will write a letter to the Dudley committee once they are back in India, asking for the committee to stop or pesh at akaal takht. It's the turn of the "Sikh Media" now to start advertising the protest. Hopefully, they will step up to do this soon.

Yes meat and sharab will flow at the Sikh Cultural Centre like the waters of the punjab............will rai,purewal,sandhu and atwal be there is the big question.....they have in there own minds beaten the uk sangat and told the midland jathadars and even the akal thatkt jathadar what they think of them and where to go!!

The Sangat in Derby, Gravesend and West Bromwich have been fortunate enough to have several open dialogues with the Jathedar of Sri Akal Takht Sahib Giani Gurbachan Singh and the Singh Sahiban over the last few days regarding the insult and ridicule of Sikh Maryada that the committee of GNSS Dudley are carrying out. The Jathedar has backed the need for immediate action to be taken at a local level against this committee. Please can you all now speak to your Gurdwara Committees and all Jathebhandi's to formally write to GNSS Dudley to communicate the concerns of the Sikh community: Mr Ajit Singh Sandhu and Committee Gurdwara Guru Nanak Singh Sabha 118 Wellington Road Dudley Wellington DY1 1UB The National Anti-Beadbi rally in Dudley scheduled for 28 May has also been tweeted by the following non-Sikh media groups: http://news.protestwatch.org.uk/national-beadbi-rally-at-dudley-uk http://www.religious...r/guest-writer/

Me too as just look at your avatar. Thats what the penguin must have said.

I gather local sevadaars from the main towns and cities, including East London, Southall/Slough, Leicester, Coventry and Leeds are pulling together to organise transport. Please speak to active naujawaan Singh/Singhneean in your area to find out about this transport, or if nothing is happening, take the initiative YOURSELF to arrange transport. Remember, it's YOUR Guru that is being disrespected, so the onus falls on YOU to do something about it. Each Sikhsangat member should be aiming to bring at least 5 people with them on the day, and forwarding texts/emails to all Sikhs in their address books.

Maybe to show how concerned sangat is about this issue coaches from around England should be booked so that sangat can attend? Just a idea

If this Committee of manmukhs want to fight for their alcohol and meat parties then Gurmukhs will stand to stop the beadbi of Sri Guru Granth Sahib Ji. These manmukhs are walking the path of self destruction. They will make their place in history alongside massands who Guruji burnt and who the Gurdwara Reformists of 1920's sorted out. Shame on this committee and I pity the karam they are making for themselves. They will be answerable to the Sikh Sangat on this earth and Dharamraj in the next world.

It's time for UK Sikhs to show on 28 May that they won't allow Beadbi to happen.

Satkaar are bored and overly proud Sikhs, who needs a cause close to home ,because they are too afraid to go to India.

I stand up for the minority, I commend those who stand there ground whatever even being wrong that is still a noble trait, I can see no faults but my own ,so I cannot tell you who is more worthy.

While you carry on doing Guruji's beadbi? Sorry doesnt work that way I understand your sentiment,but no one is doing anything of the sort,does anyone that devotes himself to doing seva really to do that. Please come and see where the Centre is in relation to the Gurdwara.

Sorry if it seemed patronising,it was just my thoughts on it.

"I AM Dudley sangat." If I had known brother, I would have joined in on the last thread, If you represent Dudley ,then why do you need outside help to make changes? Dudley Sangats representatives should be allowed to control that which is within their mandate. Thats what I feel,its a liberal opinion I know . Please don't call me mate ,Iam not your mate!

He loves only to slander others. He bears vengeance against the Lord who is free of vengeance. You are all slandering us here on this forum. I don,t see anybody from Dudley Gurdwara saying anything,and your protest seems in vengeance to the transfer of the Centre. "In spite of difference of soil and climate, of language and manners, of laws and customs, in spite of things silently gone out of mind and things violently destroyed, the Poet binds together by passion and knowledge the vast empire of human society, as it is spread over the whole earth, and over all time. The objects of the Poet's thoughts are every where; though the eyes and senses of man are, it is true, his favorite guides, yet he will follow wheresoever he can find an atmosphere of sensation in which to move his wings. Poetry is the first and last of all knowledge--it is as immortal as the heart of man." --William Wordsworth

from the number of your posts today it appears you have spent your day behind your keyboard even though you refuse to state your position on whether you believe meat and alcohol should be served on gurdwara premises Dear Bhaji One day in my 40 years life I decided to spend trying to defend the good name of my Gurdwara. When I read the comments about my Gurdwara it hurt just as if I said your Pind in India was a dump. Its still remains your pind ,even if you do not live there now ! Read what I claimed properly young man, then comment please , May I also say this seems to be a very welcoming forum indeed, really shows your hearts are tender like butter.

"I trust the committee ,they are very good Sikhs" All i want to know is, why is it that you feel this way? Hos did you come to this conclusion? By answering this question, you will clarify your stance and it will lead to people understanding you better. Because the majority on here do not believe the above statement to be true, so, because you are from Dudley and you made the above statement, you really have the power to shed some light and open peoples eyes. Please engage in discussion with me. Dear Learned Sir, I defend the instituition and do not know who is in charge,there will always be opinions on them either way in anycase ,I do not like to engage in politics. I could not believe anyone would overide the lawful authority given to a committee by its Sangat. I see goodness in the honourable position itself regardless of who occupies it,or you could say I respect them ,for the sake of respect itself. Even a gulity man is assumed innocent and given an advocate to defend him

but you are the only person who is in opposition to everyone else. I cannot think why it has taken someone who has lived away from Dudley for 20 years, lives over a hundred miles away, and who only heard about this issue on the weekend, to be the only person to oppose this. Why call it discussion forum if we all take one side? Perhaps we should call it "Forum for statements only" I had to reply to each comment ,over forty posts ,It does not matter who is right ,only that we discuss it properly. I'm not for Mass and Sharaab, I'm for respecting Committee's

lol lol lol Very Intelligent input for the brave Sikh who hides his name Yo geeza Is that how Sikhs address older brothers these days

If someone is old and wants to drink alcohol and smoke on Guru Ji's land, then explaining to them PEACEFULLY, that Guru Granth Sahib Ji Maharaaj has clearly told us not to is not disrespecting them, it's only educating them in Gurmat. You just added smoking into this matter and thats not allowed in most buildings anyway.

Please could you all nominate one person to discuss, as I cannot debate with over 10 People. I feel Mr B Singh is the best at dialectic reasoning.

Kid I am not a Doctor, Iam sure they would not discuss this with you they are busy saving lives! Just one man debating with many and not trying to guess what you others are doing, unlike yourself