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Looking back at the last few pages of this thread, the jist is that we do not know the answer to the question whether Krishan Ji is indeed in Sachkhand or not. Personally, I think this is a rather useless question which adds absolutely nothing to our Sikhi jeevani. What we (me included) should be doing is making efforts to increase our avastha and Guru kirpa naal when that happens, we will see Krishan Jee ourselves (just as other abhiyasi Gursikhs have) and then ask them. The other option would be to meet a pooran Bhramgyani and ask them. But we all know how rare it is to meet one. The third and final option is to ask Guru Sahib themselves and if they are kind to us, they will tell us. This thread is now 16 pages long and it does not seem a conclusion will be reached anytime soon. It would have been much much better if we had a thread this long which discussed things like, various vidhis of japping naam, or various obstacles one encounters while trying to do kamai, or some inspiring stories which would nudge us toward doing more bhagti. As Gurbani states, bwdu ibbwdu kwhU isau n kIjY ] Do not engage in any arguments or debates with anyone. rsnw rwm rswienu pIjY ]2] (Instead,) With your tongue, savor the Lord's sublime essence. ||2||

I'm really surprised at brothers/sisters who've bought into the Saka/Scythian theories and talk about them as if they were proven, established facts. Some of you regulars might have noticed that I do have an ongoing interest not only in history but also the processes behind the writing of history - historiography. The truth is that the theories put forward by colonialist white Europeans where based on the most tenuous links, with pretty much no (or very little) evidence as support. This goes for the both the 'Aryan invasion' theories and the 'Scythian' one. It's telling that whilst Europeans demand the most inscrutable evidence for proof of history as our people put it, they themselves can put forward bullsh1te like this with claims to authority. But look closer and you'll learn essential (and often uncomfortable) truths about people, supremacy, imperialism, slavery, propaganda. When our society started to come under the notice of the British (late 1700s), we weren't doing too badly. It's also a fact that white supremacist thinking was taking a hold of the European mind in a strong way at around this time. So imagine the thoughts going on in the minds of a colonialist supremacist at what he saw: With a strong warning against using our ancestors actions and achievements for personal ego enhancing purposes today, I'll state that (amongst other things) they saw in the Sikhs/Panjabis and their society/culture: high levels of bravery, reflection, adaptation, organisation, freedom, open mindedness, reform and dynamism. This is written all over early European accounts, even when the writer has been a jealous observer. Now to the white supremacist mind this didn't compute, because here we had these BROWN people who clearly demonstrated values and characteristics that they felt where their especially their own and specific markers/evidence of their own supremacy over non-whites. So what they saw completely put white supremacist theories in the dustbin (where they belong in my opinion). So how did European 'intellectuals' resolve this striking dissonance? By rewriting history based on the most tenuous of 'links' that somehow twisted matters so that the non-white achievers they saw before them, somehow became white - or originated from 'white lands'- hence the Aryan/Scythian buckwaas. Not only this, it also served in a justifying capacity for their imperialism along the lines of 'your ancestors where whiteys like us who conquered this place and ruled over it in the past, we are just carrying on that tradition'. The kind of jazz Edward Said spoke about in his famous work Orientalism, which I'll now quote: Okay, going back to the post annexation situation, it isn't hard to imagine that some (many?) of our defeated people lapped up the idea that they were related to the same or similar stock to the new conquerors, having your @rse kicked can do that. However, in this post hoc analysis scenario we find ourselves in today, I put it to the forum that only the most magnificent specimen of an <banned word filter activated> wouldn't be able to see how the 'theories' worked strongly in favour of the colonialists in maintaining control over the Panjab and that this reality heavily motivated their emergence and promotion. I mean I've read these old colonialist theories, most of them are as weak as "Jats are descendant of the Massagetae, and the the evidence of this is that 'getae' sounds like Jat." Having outlined the historical context of the emergence of such tenuous and obviously motivated 'theories' the big question for us should concern the matter of why some of our own brothers (and sisters) are STILL swallowing this crap, hook, line and sinker today????

Waheguru Ji Ka Khalsa Waheguru Ji Ki Fateh, Sangat Ji, did anyone listen into the Nihal show today. It was a breath of fresh air to hear that we had more of our intellectual Brothers and Sisters on !!! I managed to get on towards the end but unfortunately they cut me off because Nihal was lost for words and didn't have any answers to my questions. When ever India wants to get away with attacking the sikhs they always put a SO CALLED SIKH on the front line . i.e. they claim the writer of the sketch was a Sikh .... My answer to this was KPS Gill claims to also be a sikh but he butchered an entire generation of our naujwan !!! Before i could get this in they cut me off.. What were your thoughts sangat Ji ?

Paa Ji, we need to be VERY careful we have evidence for any accusations we make. Far too often we are caught out and labelled as being hot headed and letting our emotions get the best of us. These people love to just give us a little push and that's it off we go. I only found out that the show was covering this topic about half an hour before it started so didnt have time to prepare properly. Through my professional career i have learnt that every little thing needs to have evidence and documentation behind it or we will only be laughed at. WJKK WJKF

SON OF SARDAR – HURTS SIKH SENTIMENTS By approving such movies for screening Govt of India, reminds us time and again that were naïve to save India, first from the MOGULS and then BRITISH. Govt of India is indifferent to the feelings of Sikhs even after 1984 genocide they keep rubbing salt in our wounds. We may not be around but INDIA and INDIANS will pay a heavy price - That is Natures Law. Team YSL requests every Sikh to boycott this movie and NOT GO TO SEE IT. If you are on Facebook, please send this link to all friends http://www.causes.co...actions/1670907 Suggest to Sikh friends to strengthen our hands by joining www.youngsikhleaders.org Regards, YSL TEAM

Vismaad, who are the producers of the great animated Sikh films like Sahibzade and Bhai Taru Singh have now released BHAI SUBEG SINGH SHAHBAZ SINGH. They have been carrying out theatrical showing for a few months, and now their DVD is finally available to the Worldwide Sangat. Show Vismaad your support to allow them to carry on with the great seva by getting their latest film. What is it about? http://www.sikhiwiki...hai_Subeg_Singh Where can I get it from? http://www.sikhistor...-animated-film/ Official Trailer:

the easiest way is to always go to satsangat, their energy will help you progress. i have noticed more difference in the level of my sikhi jeevan in this past year than i have in any previous year, and the reason is b/c maharaj took me to satsangat more often. if you don't understand and there are no english programs in your area (sometimes gurmat schools have english programs), then i suggest going to the naam japna sessions, going to listen to kirtan, and learning punjabi. also, reading sakhyian of the the Gurus and sants helps immensely when the going gets tough. if you can, going to the amrit vela meditation sessions can be a big boost.

ਆਸਾ ਮਹਲਾ ੧ ॥ Aasaa, First Mehl: ਪਉਣੁ ਉਪਾਇ ਧਰੀ ਸਭ ਧਰਤੀ ਜਲ ਅਗਨੀ ਕਾ ਬੰਧੁ ਕੀਆ ॥ He created the air, and He supports the whole world; he bound water and fire together. ਅੰਧੁਲੈ ਦਹਸਿਰਿ ਮੂੰਡੁ ਕਟਾਇਆ ਰਾਵਣੁ ਮਾਰਿ ਕਿਆ ਵਡਾ ਭਇਆ ॥੧॥ The blind, ten-headed Raavan had his heads cut off, but what greatness was obtained by killing him? ||1|| ਕਿਆ ਉਪਮਾ ਤੇਰੀ ਆਖੀ ਜਾਇ ॥ What Glories of Yours can be chanted? ਤੂੰ ਸਰਬੇ ਪੂਰਿ ਰਹਿਆ ਲਿਵ ਲਾਇ ॥੧॥ ਰਹਾਉ ॥ You are totally pervading everywhere; You love and cherish all. ||1||Pause|| ਜੀਅ ਉਪਾਇ ਜੁਗਤਿ ਹਥਿ ਕੀਨੀ ਕਾਲੀ ਨਥਿ ਕਿਆ ਵਡਾ ਭਇਆ ॥ You created all beings, and You hold the world in Your Hands; what greatness is it to put a ring in the nose of the black cobra, as Krishna did? ਕਿਸੁ ਤੂੰ ਪੁਰਖੁ ਜੋਰੂ ਕਉਣ ਕਹੀਐ ਸਰਬ ਨਿਰੰਤਰਿ ਰਵਿ ਰਹਿਆ ॥੨॥ Whose Husband are You? Who is Your wife? You are subtly diffused and pervading in all. ||2|| ਨਾਲਿ ਕੁਟੰਬੁ ਸਾਥਿ ਵਰਦਾਤਾ ਬ੍ਰਹਮਾ ਭਾਲਣ ਸ੍ਰਿਸਟਿ ਗਇਆ ॥ Brahma, the bestower of blessings, entered the stem of the lotus, with his relatives, to find the extent of the universe. ਆਗੈ ਅੰਤੁ ਨ ਪਾਇਓ ਤਾ ਕਾ ਕੰਸੁ ਛੇਦਿ ਕਿਆ ਵਡਾ ਭਇਆ ॥੩॥ Proceeding on, he could not find its limits; what glory was obtained by killing Kansa, the king? ||3|| ਰਤਨ ਉਪਾਇ ਧਰੇ ਖੀਰੁ ਮਥਿਆ ਹੋਰਿ ਭਖਲਾਏ ਜਿ ਅਸੀ ਕੀਆ ॥ The jewels were produced and brought forth by churning the ocean of milk. The other gods proclaimed "We are the ones who did this!" In this shabad (ang 350) Guru Nanak devji is debunking all major hindu dieties as well as hindu mythology classics like one about churning of ocean for amrit ....

Please do, brother. I'm sure many noobs such as myself would benefit from threads such as these. I'm being deadly serious.

On the subject of Inception I found that movie to be rather excellent. The concepts of dreams within dreams, alternate realities, etc., is very cool. Chris Nolan is a talented guy and as a Batman fan total respect to him for endowing the character with a bit of respect after the dodgy Batman Forever and Batman and Robin. I've not seen Dark Knight Rises as I don't like going to the cinema but I've pre-ordered the trilogy on Blu-ray so hopefully I'll catch the film before the end of the year.

Aha alas we know where n30's name comes from. In addition to my list a few pages back I'd like to add The Dark Knigjt Rises to #1 and add the Matrix hehe.

I think you are being overly (and dangerously) idealistic here. If we have a community that is prone to insularity and they form a majority of an organisation, their characteristics WILL effect the institute. Hell, in the UK, you can work for a firm with only a handful of closet racists in powers of position and feel its effect, let alone a situation with a majority of people who have exclusionist, supremacist leanings and hold the levers of power. Not to say every last Jatt has these tendencies, but those that don't only don't because of the influence of Sikhi or some other egalitarian ideology.

I do not know specifically about the larger shields - but asking any of the Singhs at the above places will probably get you what you want. A tegha is a beautiful weopon. Basically its a a heavyweight of a curved tulwar (standard indo persian sword). Its thicker, about the same length and before tapering at the tip it widens out with both sides razor sharp. This makes its heavy weight easier to weild as well as ensuring a lot of power is delivered to the most distal part. The weight makes you imagine someone like Baba Deep Singh ji Shaheed would have weilded such a weopon, becuase its not easy to swing about in a controlled fashion and you will need a strong core and massive forearms to weild this in battle. A nihang once told me that even a novice ought to be able to cut the enemy (he used the word pathan to mean enemy - typical nihang boli!) straight through the waist in half with a decent swing. Even a good swordsman would not be able to do this with a tulwar though. I always thought a golia was a heavy ball like weight on a mace chain. However i am not 100% certain. I do not know about Moga (apart from its a good place to pick up a landi-jeep at the market on Sundays! Great fun if you fancy prancing around the villages like a goonda). Near Nanksar in Jagraon i did not see any shastar shops/ foundries at all. Nihang Singh had a website with prices but current website www.nihangsingh.com does not have these listed any more. I'll post the details about the chap in Anandpur Sahib when i find his business card.

Just for the record guys: I have no issue accepting all bhagats met sri guru nanak dev ji. About five years ago i had full doubts, but when i read gyani gyan singh nirmale works, they met sri guru nanak dev ji. I changed my position but still had doubts that they all met sri guru nanak dev ji until yesterday when johnny posted that link, all the doubts all bhagats meeting sri guru nanak dev ji were finally destroyed...It shows painful reality how doubts follows sikhs through all the years, only bhramgyani can kills those doubts from student which it did yesterday, and it also shows how learning of sikh never stops, sikh is always learning. With that being said, even looking at grand scheme of things overall (angle where there are no dharam boundaries its all one advait- non dual nirgun vahiguroo) i would have no issue accepting all bhagats got mukhti from satguru nanak dev ji (for me there is no difference between sargun and nirgun). But when i am dealing with fascism thought, i must step up and set the record straight.. I have been fighting fascism thought (for 8 years now) by maharaj kirpa will continue to do so... as you give them small arm (small control) they want whole leg(full control). For example- I have no issue guru maharaj ji bluntly saying in Ugardanti- all the idols will be destroyed/broken (both in mind and in the hindu temples). If tommorow fascism thought decides to send panthic police there to blow up the idols..then i have a issue along with probably all sant mandali and will step up to set the record straight as we be following foot steps of taliban who blew buddha statue in afghanistan. It's up to guru maharaj to decide how to break idols gupt/agupt form, not us. If fascism thought think they are some next warrior reincarnation with star wars weapons then also there is an issue as most sunni fanatics quote also from their scriptures- think- they are choosen ones. It's very fine line, thin ice and grey area. I will and continue to do my part by maharaj kirpa to remove fascism from beautiful sikhi, both righty and lefty dogs (thoughts) need to properly secured and leashed in dharam so both don't hijack and rob the sikh dharam which you will find sad reality in other dharams.

Another person that everyone the world over knows is, Saddam Hussein. Was Saddam Hussein not a Muslim yet he killed so many Muslims?

I LOVE THE FAITH IN THIS TOPIC ABOUT SIKHI :D

Scaremongering!!!!! Only people who are doing this scaremongering is the anti-Dasam Bani people. They take one tuk of Dasam Bani and distort the tuk by saying..........look sangat they are saying to worship devis and devta. Really pathetic people. If you really want to have this debate on Dasam Bani. Then start a new thread and show us which part is anti-gurmat by giving a proper explaination. Admit it!!! Your understanding of Gurbani is weak. You couldn't even explain what Bachittar Natak means. Not trying to have a go at you, but you are disrespecting Guru Sahib's Bani out of complete ignorance. Even present a story out of Sri Charitorpakhyan and myself or another member can show you how wisdom can be gain from it. Present any Dasam Bani Shabad and members here can explain the Shabad. We have Sikhs that believe in the Christain God saying the Gurus were not God. We have the lighter skinned Sikhs saying God gave Sikhs yoga as a way to meet God and they are bowing to stone idols, and once again we have Sikhs who want to put on blindfolds and discriminate against the same Guru. Before you put on your blindfold and go on a witch hunt tell us this. Are devta, devis, demons, Jamdhoot real according to Gurmat?

Thank you for this video. Also Sant Baba Gurbachan Singh ji Maharaj makes it very clear that all Bhagats met Satguru Nanak Dev ji Maharaj in this Saroop................in the same way as Satguru Sri Guru Nanak Dev ji Maharaj met Bhagat Kabir Ji Maharaj when Bhagat ji was at the age of 106. So there is no doubt in which Saroop Satguru met ALL of the Bhagats. Sant ji is the man!!!!! For such a long time one poster was calling others with degrading names. I hope he humbles down now and leaves his opinions behind. Satguru Kirpa kar!!!! Awesome find Singh..........im download this video.

I missed the show otherwise I would have rung up. Having listened to the show on iPlayer there are a few issues that didn't get addressed or highlighted. 1. Nihal playing devil's advocated said that show could be seen as highlighting the condition of Sikhs and other minorities, because it makes mention of Modi and the Fauja Singh character says that minorities have to change their answer because of the majority. The two Indian clowns who made the sketch latched onto this and kept on pushing the same point throughout. This isn't true. For one the channel is run by the INDIAN CONGRESS PARTY. The same party that has the blood of tens of thousands of Sikhs on its hands and which organised the 1984 massacres. Trying to present that sketch as a satire on the condition of Sikhs in India is a bit like the a sketch about a jewish concentration camp inmate saying he's running away from Hitler being made a channel operated by the Nazi party. The two clowns tried to make out that they are criticising the majority not the minority because of their mentioning of Modi. Also not the case as Modi is a BJP leader and the channel is run by the Congress party. 2. A Sikh having wrote the sketch. Unfortunately this was not followed up. Knowing what the morals of the Indian media are it is easy for the two clowns to make this up in order to pull the carpet from under the feet of the campaigners. Someone should have asked them to prove it. 3. The subliminal message in the sketch We all look at these sketches through western eyes. A sketch where a member of the minority community in India complains about the way they have to adjust what they say because of fear of the majority would be seen by western eyes as an indictment of the India but in Indian eyes where the condition of the minority community serves to give the majority a power trip. They subliminal message is that the minorities know their place because of the prowess of the majority. Also the running down of the Fauja Singh character by a bus could be seen as a threat. The buses of Delhi were used extensively to move the murderous mobs around the capital to areas where Sikhs were to be attacked. The subliminal message is that Sikhs are running from Tytler but he will get them in the end.

One thing that baffles me about human psychology, is the need to actively search for "miracles" or supernatural ocurrences to validate your belief in a higher power. It also surprises me how easily people are duped by these pakhandi holy men. It's almost as if they know they are being fooled, but they allow it to happen. They collectively buy into the lie and hold onto it like a teddy bear that will protect them from the monsters they think are hiding in the dark. Earth is a spec of dust in the Universe. As far as we know, this spec of dust is the only place in the known Universe where life is thriving. I don't think there is any greater miracle than this.

Let us go by what is written in our scriptures and not by hearsays. ਜੋ ਚਉਬੀਸ ਅਵਤਾਰ ਕਹਾਏ ॥ जो चउबीस अवतार कहाए ॥ Those who are called twenty-four incarnations; ਤਿਨ ਭੀ ਤੁਮ ਪ੍ਰਭ ਤਨਿਕ ਨ ਪਾਏ ॥ तिन भी तुम प्रभ तनिक न पाए ॥ O Lord ! they even could not realise thee in a small measure; ਸਭ ਹੀ ਜਗ ਭਰਮੇ ਭਵ ਰਾਯੰ ॥ सभ ही जग भरमे भव रायं ॥ They became kings of the world and got deluded; ਤਾ ਤੇ ਨਾਮ ਬਿਅੰਤ ਕਹਾਯੰ ॥੭॥ ता ते नाम बिअंत कहायं ॥७॥ Therefore they were called by innumerable names.7. Dasam Granth sahib

Veerji, you are purposefully misinterpreting Sant Gurbachan Singh Jee. Listen to 1:18 of that video where Sant Gurbachan Singh Jee is clearly saying that Namdev, Kabir Jee got Mukti by the Kirpa of Guru Nanak Dev Jee! Sant Jee is not basing his story on Giani Gian Singh. If you can understand basic Punjabi, he is saying Giani Gian Singh "ALSO WRITES"(Giani Gian Singh ne vi likhya hai) meaning he is using that to further strengthen HIS point that the Bhagats were Sikhs of Guru Nanak Dev Jee. Now if this statement of Sant Jee is going to offend Kabir Panthis or Ravidasias I could care less. Sant Gurbachan Singh Jee was a pooran Mahapurkh who didn't care about being PC. We are not even 1% equal to his vidya. If you want to continue with your new age Max arthur macouliff influenced beliefs then by all means continue. I am personally happy believing in Puraatan Sikhi.

Veerji, please listen to that video carefully, there is no talk of reincarnation of the Bhagats or something else. Sant Gurbachan Singh Bhindranwalay are clearly saying that Ramanand and the other bhagats got the sikhya of Nirgun Sargun etka only after meeting with Guru Nanak Dev Jee. If you still choose to not listen to Sant Jee and instead misinterpret his words as you did in the Sri Chand thread than not much more can be said. But fact remains that the Bhagats Sahibaan were Bhagats of Satgur Nanak Dev Jee.

I do not believe sikhism claims that only way to realize God is through sikhism. Other religions have their own way of realizing God but sikhi is a simpler way.

N30singh ji Krishna has high position in Hinduism.But sikhism does not endorse that view. For example vishnu is absolute God in hinduism and krishna is his incarnation. But in sikhi Akal purakh is supreme and vishnu is a devta. ਦੇਵੀ ਦੇਵਾ ਮੂਲੁ ਹੈ ਮਾਇਆ ॥ Devi devaa mool hai Maya: Maya is the origin of demigods SGGS ang 129

ਦੇਵ ਭੇਵ ਨ ਜਾਨਈ ਜਿਹ ਬੇਦ ਅਉਰ ਕਤੇਬ The mystery of God is unknown to any demigod and it is also indescribable by the scriptures -- Vedas, Qran, Bible, and all others (Guru Gobind Singh Jee, Jaap Sahib 82).

In SGGS sahib krishna is not referred to as Gurmukh whereas prahlad, dhru, raja janak are referred as Gurmukhs. Per Gurbani krishna was not able to realize akal purakh as he strayed from his path.

Waheguru....paa ji it's all Maharaj Kirpa !!! Usually it is emotional Singhs that get air time and get caught out because they start to see red mist (not their fault) ! We can be proud of our naujwan today for the way we repesented ourselves. We had both the presenter and producer backed into a corner. Bet they wish they never came on now lolll...

In krishna avtar of Dasam Granth sahib, krishna is shown in very poor light.When he is not able to subdue kharag singh in battle, krishna uses trickery and deception to sidetrack attention of kharag singh. Kharag singh catches from hair and throws him on ground but leaves him saying that if i kill you with whom i will fight. Then in the company of arjuna krishna takes liquor and also visits dancing girls. This is not from puarans but independent writing of Guru Gobind singh ji in krishna avtar.

Here is a list of the prohibited items at London 2012: http://www.london2012.com/mm/Document/Documents/General/01/25/44/06/Prohibitedandrestricteditemslists_Neutral.pdf "All types of knives and bladed items, including pocket knives and knives carried as part of cultural dress (excluding the Sikh article of faith kirpan/ceremonial dagger)"

Why do people always have to take things to extremes? We don't have to all intermarry for this caste issue to go away. Why can't we just learn to get along? People stuck to their castes back in the day, but they still fought side-by-side. The people discriminating against other castes don't know Sikhi. If a Jatt doesn't let a Chamar take prashad from the same place as other people, then that Jatt isn't a Sikh of the guru. I'm from a Jatt background. I'm proud of it. It's part of my blood. It's almost like an ethnic group within itself. That doesn't mean that I think I'm better than people who aren't Jatts. A lot of songs big-up Jatts, but that don't mean other people gotta develop an inferiority complex and start hating on us. Those songs are for us. Go ahead and rep your people if you want, nobody is stopping you. What about all the songs repping Punjabis, and saying how we the best? You think Gujjus or Tamils get <Edited> off? Maybe we should intermarry with them so we don't have any beef. Why stop with South Asians? Maybe every ethnicity around the world should intermarry so that we would end up with one generic race and have world peace? Probably not gonna happen. Respect each others differences and treat each other as equals.

Top 5 Gangster movies 1. Carlito's way 2. Donnie Brasco 3. The Godfather 1 and 2 4. The Untouchables 5. Casino

Notice how Sant Ji said, "be cautious about what you watch". Not, stop watching them altogether.

http://www.gurmatveechar.com/audios/Katha/02_Present_Day_Katha/Bhai_Hardeep_Singh_%28Hazoor_Sahib_wale%29/Bhai.Hardeep.Singh--Katha.Amrit.Rehitnama.mp3 http://www.gurmatveechar.com/audios/Katha/02_Present_Day_Katha/Bhai_Hardeep_Singh_%28Hazoor_Sahib_wale%29/Bhai.Hardeep.Singh--Katha.Amrit.Mukatnama.mp3

Gurbani is a disinfectant. The longer we go without Gurbani , the more we become infected with maya. ਭਰੀਐ ॥ Bẖarī▫ai maṯ pāpā kai sang. But when the intellect is stained and polluted by sin, <a class="dict" href="http://www.srigranth.org/servlet/gurbani.dictionary?Param=ਓਹੁ">ਓਹੁ ਧੋਪੈ ਨਾਵੈ ਕੈ ਰੰਗਿ ॥ Oh ḏẖopai nāvai kai rang. it can only be cleansed by the Love of the Name.

1) TOY STORY 1 2) TOY STORY 2 3) TOY STORY 3 4) FINDING NEMO 5) CHICKEN RUN