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Very interesting topic! I think at the very outset we need to acknowledge that super rigorous, critical analysis is a relatively new thing with religions, but the concept of scrutinising and judging 'narratives' that come down to us is not a new thing. A good early example would be the way Muslim scholars evaluated Hadiths for reliability in the past. Having recently had the wonderful experience of hearing, homegrown, indigenous Sikh katha first hand via katha Giani Thakur Singh, I noticed that they refer to Sikh historical texts like Suraj Prakash, Nanak Prakash quite a lot, even these texts are relatively recent creations, though one can't ignore the possibility of some of the contents having antecedents from the Guru's time. Your question of katha being 'historically authentic' is one I used to wonder about. The conclusion I've reached thus far goes along the lines of: Today we live in so-called 'post-enlightenment' era, characterised by a purported high value on 'empirical data' and 'critical analysis' and rational, logic based on this. In fact if you think about it, that's why you are asking the question you are. These 'modern' ideas came to Sikhs in a big way via colonialisation, but that isn't to say that there was never any concern for accuracy in the past. My point is that up until very recently, human societies conveyed messages of importance amongst their members through narratives, or stories. These can take many forms but the prevalence of mythological accounts in EVERY single community up until recent times tells us this was the norm. You can take a blinkered look at say 'but they are based on falsehood and flights of imagination', but that would be very imprudent. When we break all of these narratives down, they communicate matters of importance to the society they speak to. And THAT is their value and importance, regardless of literal, historical 'truth'. Katha is about extending understanding, and a kathakaar needs to grasp the mindsets of his audience and impart knowledge to them in an easily processable way. When we see it like that, it doesn't matter if a given context is genuinely historical, what matters is if the correct message is imparted, so I'm sure kathakaars may have used their imaginations to help smooth out the process of embedding Sikh values in people's minds. As a practical example I've personally experienced consider Giani Thakur Singh's use of the idea that pauris of Japji Sahib are based on questions asked by nath jogis (a short of extention of the narrative around the Siddh Gohst bani). Now personally, I have no way of knowing if this is literally true, but the fact is that using this mechanism can help elucidate aspects of Japji Sahib (or other bani) brilliantly by bringing out the question and answer style in the bani. This isn't falsehood, but simply conveying moral, ethical values and theological matters in a way that has been done since time immemorial. So the focus moves to the important information underlying the katha rather than literalistic interpretations. And it doesn't matter if people want to literally believe anyway because one way or the other, what really matters is imbibing the moral, spiritual, essence in any case.

so, according to some people, its o.k that our American sikhs get beat up, bullied, killed just because we want to be politically correct, don't want to offend sullahs or it puts muslims in danger. no, we need to stand up and say we aren't muslims, because we are sikhs. we aren't advocating hate towards muslims by saying that, at least hate crimes will drop if people knew the difference. We are just telling the world who we are.

If an African tells us he’s African and not Jamaican, does it mean he hates Jamaicans? If a Jamaican tells us he’s Jamaican and not African, does it mean he hates Africans? If Japanese told us he was Japanese and not Chinese, does it mean he hates Chinese? If a Chinese tells us he’s Chinese and not Japanese, does it mean he hates Japanese? If a Pakistani tells you he is Pakistani and not Indian does that mean he hates Indians? If a Hindu tells you that he is Hindu and not Muslim, does that mean he hates Muslims? If a Hindu tells you he’s a Hindu and not a Sikh, does that mean he hates Sikhs? If a Christian tells you he’s a Christian and not Jewish, does that mean he hates the Jews? If a Jew tells you he is a Jew and not Christian does that mean he hates Christians? If a Muslim tells you he is a Muslim and not a Jew does that mean he hates Jews? If a Jew tells you he is a Jew and not a Muslim, does that mean he hates Jews? If an Austrian told us he was an Austrian and not German, does that mean he hates Germans? If a German tells us he is German and not Austrian, does that means he hates Austrians? If a New Zealander told us he was from New Zealand and not Australia, does that mean he hates Australians? If an Australian told us was an Australian and not from New Zealand, does that mean he hates New Zealanders? If a Sikh tells you he is a Sikh and not a Hindu, does that mean he hates Hindus? If a Sikh tells you he is a Sikh and not a Muslim, does that mean he hates Muslims?

Any wonder that the article is written by this person Only someone living in the secluded and privileged world of academia and probably not having lived in the real world would write an article like this. He's probably living off Saudi money.

If it was the other way around then Muslims would go around saying that they are NOT Sikhs. We are just going along with statistics because 9/11 attacks were done by people who claimed to be Muslims. Ignorant people therefore attack Sikhs believing that we are Muslim. We clear the misconception and say we are NOT muslims. Simple as that. This does not mean we have a problem against Muslims. Just means we are defining our identity.

Bit off topic (sorry je) but has bhai balwant singh wrote any recent letters? Also how come there has been no new videos from rajoana tv? We seem to have gone back to sleep on this matter

Warn your families and forward it to friends/family.

Bro, it's really unfortunate you think so narrowly. It seems your views have recently taken a drastic change. Please don't think of fellow Gursikhs as the enemy. We are all brothers of the same Dasam Pita and in the same boat. We are not separate like Sunni Shia divide. We all believe in the same Bani. Then why so much hate for fellow Sikhs? I used to love reading your posts but now your posts are taking a very Niddarist/Snaatanist ideological turn. Please review your thoughts using Bibek Budh in light of Gurbani rather than any particular ideology.

I think he may possibly got one too many wedgies from Singhs in school and now the blood flow to his brain aint the best!

Unfortunately we have some moorkhs in our kaum as well who think that we shouldn't upset Muslims by distancing ourselves from them. Look at this picture which shows a group of Sikhs visiting the opening of the Park51 (Ground zero Mosque) exhibition and which was and is plastered over the official website of the so-called community centre. The problem is that over 70% of Americans were against a mosque being put on that site and this even included many liberal types. So why are Sikhs putting themselves in a position where the Sikh identity could be linked to a supremacist Mosque put up on a site where Muslims murdered over 3000 Americans? Sikhs need to be more careful where and when they can be photographed especially if it could reflect in a negative way.

I don't listen to Asian network just because of him.

It could be a lot of things but karma can never be out of the equation. It is a system made by Waheguru. It could be child’s bad karma or someone’s mistake. In latter case, a new karma gets generated and that person will have to pay for their sins. In any case, a human birth is a privilege and a blessing so that the person can take advantage of it and become united with God. Even if a person is born healthy, due to their bad karma they could suffer disability but it all depends on how they lead their present life. If a person has bad enough karma to become permanently disabled i.e. losing limbs, due to their good karma of sangat, naam abhiyaas, and Gurmat rehat it could be reduced to a small bruise. Human birth is the only way to burn away all the karma. Animals only live their karma but do not make new ones. You do not seem to understand karma. Each individual has his own karma that is unique. There is no such thing as collective karma of a community or a country. Karma mostly determines your present situation not the outcome. As stated before, present lifestyle weighs in heavily on outcome. If a community suffers holocaust or a massacre that is because of the mistakes made by its leaders. Sikhs suffered because the Sikh leaders refused to reap the opportunity and decided to live with the Hindus. For their mistakes, the entire community is suffering. They must have paid for their mistakes along with all the Hindus who turned against the Sikhs. Please read four Shabads of Babarvani in which Guru Sahib clearly states that because of the bad mistakes of Lodhis, people suffered at the hands of Babar. Now, anyone in a higher position is due to their good past karma combined with making choices in present life. There is no such karma that will ensure that one would definitely become the president of a certain country. A karma can ensure great wealth and richness but not a certain position which depends on present karma. Everything happens according to His Will which is impossible to fully understand. Part of that Hukam is set of laws and rules He has created according to which the creation operates. Karma system is part of His Hukam according to which one shall reap as they sow. One person’s mistake can affect other people’s lives in which case he/she incurs that much bad karma. Spread of diseases is not just random but always has a definite cause behind them. Tsunami or plagues are not freaks of nature that just happen randomly. They have a reason. God doesn’t seek destruction of His creation. In case of natural disaster many things could be at play and it is not possible to understand every single one but the very proof of karma’s existence is the fact that not every person died in Tsunami. Some survived which means they had good karma of past or present to live longer. It was definitely not God getting sick and tired of those people and deciding to kill them. Again, Sikh nation doesn’t have a collective karma. It is seriously foolish to attribute every bad happening to one’s past karma only while completely ignoring other factors. Sikh leaders made mistakes and the community suffered. All the criminals earned new karma and they will have to receive the punishment. Further, because 1984 and all the Sikh massacres were decided and supported by the Indian government, the entire country will have to pay the price and eventually India as it stands today will not exist in the future. Mistakes made by the Hindu leaders will impact the entire country and everyone shall suffer. Individual perpetrators have reaped their karma, still are and some will in the future but mistakes by the Indian leaders were never corrected so the country will have to reap the fruit. Just look at Punjab and see what is happening. No one can claim that Punjab is progressing in any way. This is because Punjabis will suffer first due to turning back on the Sikhs. Then the entire country will pay. How that happens, only time will tell. God is all good but He has created what we call “bad” or “evil”. He is the only Creator and He has revealed to us in the form of Gurbani what is good and bad and what to do and what not to do. According to Gurbani, karma system exists which unlike in other religions is dynamic and changeable. Karma involves past, present and future. Freewill is also part of the karma system. One needs to study Gurbani carefully to understand it but no one can fully know its ins and outs because only God alone knows everything. Guru Rakha

I love the way you think (i think like that too! ). It could be true, but he wouldn't admit it and if he were to see this he would bottle him his emotions and throw it into a deeper corner of his heart and come out saying something that attempts to convince others (and himself) otherwise. Either way, we shouldn't mind him covering us so long as we have well versed Sikhs getting on air to talk about the Sikh issues at hand. What I know for sure is he's very curious as to see what the Sikh beliefs are and deep down I know he respects Sikhs.

It's pakhand and andvishaash. It's a part of the market that brahmans used to use to say: "If you perform x thing with y thing, z will happen". Superstitious mumbo jumbo that our dim witted punjabis love to believe in.

You're absolutely right! People like Nihal from the BCC make us feel guilty for trying to save our fellow Sikhs from being unfairly discriminated against i.e. sworn at, or spit at, or threatened, or beaten up, or even killed (as there have been many cases of Sikhs being killed due to being mistaken for Muslims). He tries to tell us that we are wrong for letting the world know that we are not Muslims. However, I dare him to even look at one of the Sikh relatives in the face whose relative had been seriously attacked or killed as a result of being mistaken for a Muslim, he wouldn't have the Guts! I say we leave it at this.... Muslims are proud to Muslims, and to be known as Muslims, and NOT Sikhs! We Sikhs are proud to be Sikhs, and to be known as Sikhs, and NOT Muslims! If anyonw in the world Let's the World know they are who they are, then that does not mean they hate anyone, they are just stating a truthful fact, and not denying their identity. Sikhs are not Muslims, just a truthful fact!

While Sikhs should tell the world they are not not Muslims or any other religion but an independent religion but at the same time that does not mean we should start to point the finger of blame at any other religion. I have noticed some Sikhs in trying to show their difference from Muslims start to overly bash and bad mouth Islam and Muslims as if that will show how truly unique the Sikhs are. That is not the Gurmat thing to do. Most Muslims living in the west are good people, I wouldn't want people do hate them. We need to follow the examples of our Gurus in every point. We need to inform non Sikhs out there who we are. Reading some of the comments by Sikhs at the comments section of news papers one can help notice how ignorant even fellow Sikhs are of Sikhi. For example, one Sikh commenter wrote Sikhism does not beleive in converting other people to Sikhism because Sikhism believes all religions are equal and lead to the same place. With such ignorance is it any wonder why Sikhs are no longer spreading the word of the Gurus to non Sikhs? They say one of the best ways to inform others of your religion is to preach it and spread it. In that case we have failed miserably. Sikhi is a unique religion. It was founded by Sri Guru Nanak Dev Jee who was the greatest of all. His spiritual path(Sikhi) is also the greatest path amongst paths. We Sikhs have done some great Karma in previous lifetimes to be blessed with the priceless jewel of Sikhi in this lifetime.

Source: http://www.examiner....-demand-apology Sikh Americans decry American Flag burning in India and demand apology August 11, 2012 By: Amrik Singh (Sumedh Saini, The present Director General of Police (DGP) of Punjab). SAN FRANCISCO, Aug. 10, 2012 - Sikh Americans highly appreciate the overwhelming public support and the response of the US Government, Law Enforcement, and the US media to the white Supremacist’s attack on a Sikh Gurdwara in Oak Creek Wisconsin. Sikh Americans have never lagged behind in showing deep respect to American values and the US Flag despite facing random attacks against their identity. They believe it happens mostly out of ignorance. The President of Oak Creek Gurdwara, one of the six victims, had American flag in his front yard that showed his attachment to the symbol of freedom. But in India, a staged incident of burning American flag has invited the wrath of Sikh Americans who demanded immediate apology from India for showing disrespect to the American flag and a thorough investigation of ulterior motives. View slideshow: Sikh Americans and India's games against them. “India and its puppet government in Punjab must issue an immediate apology to Sikh-Americans for burning our flag,” said Bhajan Singh Bhinder, Director of US-based Sikh Information Center. “We are not India’s property. They should get their hands off our flag.” A suspected Supremacist, posing as a Sikh burns American flag.Photo credit: Sikh information center On August 6, members of a political party aligned with Hindu supremacists Bharatiya Janata Party, burned several flags and displayed signs reading: “US Govt Take Action Against The Killers.” It is a disturbing development, according to Mr. Bhinder, because Hindu supremacists are looking for racial divisions, hatred, and violence against American Sikhs. Shiromni Akali Dal, which was once a Sikh oriented political party, is currently hand in glove with Hindu hardliners whose hands are still suspect in killing thousands of Christians, Muslims, Sikhs, and Dalits from 1980- 2008. The same day of the Oak Creek incident, Chief Minister of Punjab, Parkash Singh Badal wrote in a letter to Indian Prime Minister Manmohan Singh: “The government of India must get more actively and vigorously involved in getting the U.S. administration to address the issue in right earnest.” Foreign Minister S. M. Krishna also blamed America, saying: "The U.S. government will have to take a comprehensive look at this kind of tendency which certainly is not going to bring credit to the United States of America." Mr. Bhinder said how can Government of India ask justice for six Sikhs when it has not brought to justice any killer of 10,000 Sikhs, and burning of their hundreds of historical Gurdwaras ? Bhinder said “Badal has promoted Sumedh Saini, an architect of Sikh genocide in India, as the head of the state police department, how can he plead on behalf of the American Sikhs? Saini got the highest office by killing thousands of Sikhs. There is enough evidence that India rewards and promotes police officers who use torture and murder of prisoners.” Many Hindu hardliners guided mobs to kill Sikhs and burn their places of worship in 1984. Four thousands Sikhs lost their lives in Delhi alone and mob leaders were elevated to the highest offices. According to a press release, Bhinder stated the intent of the flag-burning was clearly intended to create strife among different American communities and provoke American anger against U.S. Sikhs. “This has the hallmarks of a staged event. The rabble-rousing Indian government is trying to pit one American against another to divide the USA along caste lines in the tradition of the Brahmin rulers of India,” he said. "India can do nothing to end anti-Sikh violence in America as long as it continues the officially sanctioned genocide of Sikhs in India.” He added that a 2011 report by human rights watchdog Organization for Minorities of India (OFMI) stated that torture is used regularly in every police station in India. Backing Bhinder’s claim that police brutality leads to promotion, OFMI spokesman Arvin Valmuci said, “Look at former police officer Mohammad Izhar Alam, who led the ‘Black Cats’ death squad to exterminate Sikhs. Last November, 34 young Sikhs killed by Alam were finally identified, but in October, Badal assured his wife a seat in Punjab Legislative Assembly.” Valmuci says India has a long, indisputable record of staging violence against minorities. He also questioned the spontaneity of the flag-burning, asking, “Was it staged by the Indian government like other crimes such as the 2001 Chittisinghpura Massacre, the 2007 Samjhauta Express bombing, and the 1982 Cow Head Incident?” The Sikh Information Centre was joined by OFMI in making three demands of India: “If India truly has sympathy for the memories of Wisconsin Sikhs Satwant Singh Kaleka, Prakash Singh, Sita Singh, Ranjit Singh, Suveg Singh, and Paramjit Kaur, then it will listen to us. We demand: “1) An immediate investigation of the mysterious thugs who burned the American flag in New Delhi; “2) An immediate apology by India and its puppet government in Punjab to the USA's Sikh community; “3) Immediate prosecution of Kamal Nath and of Badal's Police chief, Sumedh Saini, for crimes against the Sikhs involving the torture and murder of thousands. “We also humbly request: “1) The Obama Administration take swift action to investigate attempts to use the mischievous flag-burning incident to create more civil strife in the USA; “2) The U.S. State Department should pressurize India for an official apology to the Sikh-American community for burning their flag; “3) The U.S. Congress take up and press this issue and particularly seek prosecution of Kamal Nath and Sumedh Saini.” About SIC: The Sikh Information Centre is a USA-based non-profit committed to the discovery, dissemination and elevation of crucial information relating to the liberty of unhindered exercise of all intrinsic rights of humanity.

Please don't refer to Sri Guru Granth Sahib Jee with "pages". The correct word is "ang", which means limb. The word "panna" may also be used.

Agreed. Akali Dal (B) and Akali Dal International should strip Akali from their organizations.

By the way, we Sikhs should proactively stop any organisation using the word Akali in their name or title unless they have full permission from the whole panth. I think words like Akali, Sikh, the 11 Gurus names from Guru Nanak Dev Ji to Guru Granth Sahib Ji, or Vaheguru, or any Sikh Specific words should be in some way copyrighted or protected by us Sikhs in some way !!! We should not let people like this hijack our names and titles to just discredit us.

This non-sikh agent of india (the anti-Sikh individual pretending to be a sikh with the crossed swords) should be named. He is deliberately trying to get innocent Sikhs killed and harmed around the world. If our media, news papers, radio, magazines and tv stations really care about Sikhs and want to prevent further attacks on Sikhs then they will definately name and shame this man who hates humanity. It's better this one evil man gets a good slapping as a result of being exposed rather than further innocent men, women and children getting attacked around the world as a result of this evil mans actions. I wonder if any of our Sikh Media are brave enough, or care enough, to expose this anti-Sikh individual. One things for sure, any Sikh Media that does will get further financial support from the Sikh Community and a growing audience of Sikhs!!! Sikhs love justice, and to expose this anti-humanity individual is Justice!!! I am sure America would support any Sikh Media for exposing this vile man who burns America's Flag without Justification. It's going to be a total benefit for any Media who exposes this man!

Great post Mahan Singh!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! Please post the link of the article if possible or a larger picture so it's easier to share.

American Sikhs took an advertisement in a news paper telling the Indian Sikhs to keep off their (American Sikh affairs). Further telling the so called Sikhs demonstrating in front of American Embassy and also the leaders (read Badal Dal and some Congressi and BJPs) making unnecessary statements to do their demonstrating in India where the Sikhs are mistreated on daily basis and where Sikhs have not got any justice for 1984 massacre, have not received any justice for Gurdaspur shooting and killing of Bhai Jaspal Singh, and Ludhiana killing --- and other incidents. It is in India where Sikhs need protecting more than anywhere else. . . .

He is Akali Dal. Check out the pics of him protesting. LOL! Dude lives for this stuff. What a clown! Hahaha! Also, notice how in the pics the police are treating him so gently. Why wasn't his dastaar removed? I thought that was standard practice by the bigot Indian police? He's definitely a paid stooge.

Finally got to watch this and I agree, this needs to be shown in every Gurudwara up and down the country. People need to be made aware of what goes on and make them more vigilant to predatory forces.

Finally got round to watching this video. If any of you haven't seen it - do it as a priority. The most respect to Bhai Mohan Singh for confronting this issue which most of our 'elders' seem to want to pretend doesn't exist or is someone else's problem. God bless you! Notice how he too notices how the establishment/media/politicians in the UK got active on the matter of grooming only after they discovered white girls were being targeted and how certain politicians (like Jack Straw) and high ranking police officials (Paul Condon) outright ignored decade old warnings/pleas from the Sikh community over the issue. Shame on them. It also shows us that in reality we have to deal with these issues ourselves.

ਹਰਿ ਭਇਓ ਖਾਂਡੁ ਰੇਤੁ ਮਹਿ ਬਿਖਰਿਓ ਹਸਤੀ ਚੁਨਿਓ ਨ ਜਾਈ ॥ हरि भइओ खांडु रेतु महि बिखरिओ हसतीं चुनिओ न जाई ॥ Har bẖa▫i▫o kẖāʼnd reṯ mėh bikẖri▫o hasṯīʼn cẖuni▫o na jā▫ī. The Lord is like sugar, spilled onto the sand; the elephant cannot pick it up. ਕਹਿ ਕਮੀਰ ਕੁਲ ਜਾਤਿ ਪਾਂਤਿ ਤਜਿ ਚੀਟੀ ਹੋਇ ਚੁਨਿ ਖਾਈ ॥੨॥੩॥੧੨॥ कहि कमीर कुल जाति पांति तजि चीटी होइ चुनि खाई ॥२॥३॥१२॥ Kahi kamīr kul jāṯ pāʼnṯ ṯaj cẖītī ho▫e cẖun kẖā▫ī. ||2||3||12|| Says Kabeer, give up your ancestry, social status and honor; be like the tiny ant - pick up and eat the sugar. ||2||3||12||