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Most of you probably seen movie called "Hotel Rwanda," (In early 90's Killing of 800,000 tutsi men by hutu community) Whole world, including united states, did nothing to help. Bill Clinton administration refused to allow use of the world genocide for six weeks because "If you used the word, then you're required to take action." Clinton called unable to help Rwanda is his greatest regrets. Avoidance of the powerful term 'Genocide' likely contributed to the Clinton admin's inaction and general public's lack of support.

Please read attachment I was sent. Msg_Dundha.pdf Vaheguru Jee Kaa Khalsa Vaheguru Jee Kee Fateh It has come to light that the controversial figure named Sarbjeet Singh Dundha is doing Katha Divans in the UK at this moment in time. It has come apparent that he may attend some Gurdwara Sahibs in the Birmingham/Coventry area for Katha Divans. Naujawan Gursikhs affiliated with Damdami Taksal and Akhand Kirtani Jatha are against this individual from doing Katha. Please any Nauwajan Veer/Bhen think of the Kaum and unite of this issue. All UK Youth are together on this and no Jathabandi is for this individual. Do not listen and fall for rumours/lies that one group is supporting this guy. The reason for this message is to show those that are trying to split the youth even further, have another thing coming. We will not break and argue, we are all agree that Sarbjeet Singh Dundha can’t do Seva here. It is not the right time for him do be doing Katha due to all the anomalous comments he has said and the Sangat he keeps of the Kala Afghana and Singh Sabha Canada groups. If Dunda jee changes his veechar and reforms himself then maybe next time he can do Seva here. It is that very strange that this banter has started, at the time of us remembering the Genocide that took place in November 1984 and the upcoming Bandhi Chor Divas which is fast approaching. We leave you with a quote from Sant Jarnail Singh jee Bhindranwala Unite under the Kesri Nishaan Sahib, stoutly support the Panth, and be attached to Siri Guru Granth Sahibs Throne and Guru's Darbar;

In principle, isn't this just an account which has a 10% standing order for daswand and then the daswand is selectively distributed to chosen charities? This means that our collective daswand is put in a pot which is then managed into various activities... However, it’s much more sophisticated. Who will run the bank? Setting up charters that the bank is primarily responsible for protecting the public from unsafe banking practices? Identify directors, a chief executive officer (who usually has to have past experience running a bank) and other executives? Competition from other Banks? Raising the capital/stock for the Bank (massive working capital required)? Safeguarding the deposits? This is just off the top of my head...There’s loads to think about...

Get a grip people..we have two sikh brothers bickering with each other over a bloody cartoon movie, here i m thinking collectively all sikh brothers and sisters collectively will make a difference to humanity, human rights for all...come on guys priority people.!!!!!!!!!!

"Gritty realism"? Do you have even an ounce of self-awareness? :biggrin2: You're out of your depth on this one, fella. Step back before you embarrass yourself. I know you prefer to conduct yourself on this forum in that high-handed, arrogant manner which comes naturally to you, assuming that everyone else has just stepped off the banana-boat and could never possibly know as much as you do, but you're onto a loser on this one. Your snobbery is rather reminiscent of a 6th former who's just discovered a cool new band and suddenly starts poo-pooing the supposedly low-brow music he previously listened to, in an attempt to show how superior and "with it" he is. Embarrassing. The above crystallises perfectly what is wrong with your perception of film as a medium of communication and expression. The fact that you rely so heavily on visual indicators to connect with a theme or a subject (to the exclusion of everything else) says so much about how little you truly understand the medium. Why should the human emotion and experiences of that boy - to use your example - not be taken into consideration when attempting to identify with that boy? What if his desires and experiences are the same as anyone halfway across the world, but the only difference is the geographical setting of the story? If you need architecture and climates which are familiar to your life experiences in order to truly comprehend and empathise with a character I suggest you cultivate your imagination a bit more. If you find yourself welling up at the "brickwork" of a village rather than the emotions and experiences of the character who lives in that village (regardless of location) then I really don't know what to say. Go watch an animated movie called Grave of The Fireflies then tell me animation is shallow. But be careful because it has something which may shock and astound you: SUB-TEXT. Look it up. I won't entrench myself into a back-and-forth with you, because it seems your ignorance and mis-placed confidence in what you THINK you know knows no bounds. I'm confident you haven't a clue where I'm coming from so I'll leave it at that. P.S. It's not nice when you're talked down to, is it? Might take this into consideration the next time you make a post on this site.

Well to be real frank the reason why person like me who do not support any pseudo *self-made* khalistani leaders of the west is because of the lack of trust and their internal freaking wars. Never ever trust anyone who raises the voice for khalsa land with their habit of doing repetitive speeches for the past 20+ years (some few newcomers too). Whenever someone come to speak about this in my local gurdwara, i just get up and leave.. far away to support them in any form. The only organization that i support is "Sikhs for Justice" as i see that at least they are doing something not just collecting money. They are the one who raised the issue in australia, got up against congress party as whole and now trying to get our rights in United Nations. I would encourage all people not to entertain any pseudo khalistani leader. They use the image and hard work of Sant Jarnail Singh Bhinderanwale only to fill up their banks. Only support those who are doing it ONLY legal way. Check up their non-profit status and always ask how transparent they are. Those days are long gone when we trust others.

buy a big maaj

how come no-one mentioned LION KING???? cartoon movies are the best lol... 1) lion king 2) bolt 3) shrek 4)monsters inc 5) Nomeo & Julliet 6) finding nemo 7) gafield .....and the list goes on :D

I think they are targeting so called labelled "low caste" in punjab. These people are already victimized in punjab, they get double victimized by our sikh community within with all these stupid punjabi tribal fights which are fought in name of dharam bringing - division/hostility between guru ravidasa gurdwaras vs singh sabha gurdwaras run by jatts. Our parcharaiks (SGPC leaders) need to lead by example, launch massive amrit sanchar to so called low caste community in punjab, give them proper satkar, make all of them eligible for equal rights in dharam, follow by foot steps of guru maharaj sidhant- updesh hou varna ko sanjha..!! Time to re-think our parchar strategies and bring every one together- kabirpanthis upasakhs, ravidasa upasakhs etc all under sri guru nanak dev nirankar sikhi. I propose to ease on definition of sikh to include everyone- kabirpanthis/ravidassa panthis/nanakpanthis etc in the panth and also re-bridge by introducing some depth in parchar while withholding and reaffirming the importance of being khalsa, give everyone some room to work on themselves- spiritually/practically instead of feeding guilt trip parchar like jevoh witnesses..!!

The biggest problem with us is that we think others are like us too. Wake up Khalsa jee, others are NOT like us. We have a Pooran SatGuru who gave us character, who taught us to be just even in times of strife. Can the others look up their history and say the same about those they worship? Wake up, don't expect others to have your level of deen-imaan, your kind of integrity, your type of Khalsaaee kadar-keemat. We have our Gurdev Pita jee Sahib-E-Kamaal Sri Guru Gobind Singh Jee Maharaj, the one and only personality on this planet who did bhagti in bir rass. Anyone else qualifies? NO! Wake up, no one else has the sense of belonging the way we do, we belong only to our Gurdev Pita jee. Who do others belong to? Whose tokens of love do they carry the way we carry our kakaars? We are blessed with a saroop because we carry a responsibility. Does anyone else qualify? NO! Wake up! Stop trusting just about anyone because they are nice from time to time. Stop expecting others to be the way you are because you are a different breed since you are to abide by a mandatory norm. When Dasmesh Pita jee said that Khalsa is to stay niyaara, it also means that no one else is like the Khalsa. No one else has the kind of character that Khalsa has, no one else has deen-imaan, kadar-keemat the way Khalsa does, no one else has a satkaarjog saroop that Khalsa has. All these people around you are under NO obligation to be the best human beings, but you blessed Khalsas will have the sweet burden of that Guru-given duty on your head till you die. Wake up! Love all, trust a few, but have no expectations from anyone Khalsa jee, because Khalsa lives a life of commitment to our SatGuru Patshah jee, others tend to live a life they at times find aimless and can't define even themselves. Wake up! There is way we are expected to live in society, and that was given to us by our param pyaare SatGuru Patshah jee long before these man-made handwritten laws were created or implemented. I am not asking you to look down upon anyone, or to hate anyone, or to dislike anyone, or to degrade or put anyone down. I am only begging you to please be niyaare in every aspect of your lifestyle. And I am only rebuking myself to stand up and be who and what I am, NOT who and what the world wants to see me as. - Mehtab Singh

He also preaches that there were no chali muktas. He says that Baba deep singh's head never came off thus labelling saints as normal persons. He says that Gurus were normal human beings and any miracles associated with their lives is fake. They are a bunch of nastiks who use body language to impress gullibles to make them nastiks. Sikhism is a mystic path where a seeker advances in spirituality with naam simran.Such nastiks reject that. Post this trash somewhere else. This site is not to propagate his unsikh philosophy. See below a compiled video to know this anti sikh propagandist who is not even known in India .

Our community has problems voluntarily parting with money. I dont think it would work like that. You wouldnt pick and choose which organisations you want to support. The banks income would be the source of the investments. Technically this would not be counted as daswandh. In Panth Time they mentioned The Co-operative Bank which is involved in ethical investments. Why do you think that would be hard to decide on? If Sikhs wish to set up a bank for Sikhs which invests in their own religion then Punjabi wouldnt come into the equation. It would clearly be outlined as a Sikh bank. Check out the link for Khalsa Credit Union. These are some very valid points. All of these things are what make me sceptical about the theory of a Sikh bank. This is the idea!

Well at least he hasn't completely caved into the Indians. That statement in bold in the original post is absolutely key, and no matter how much it angers and annoys the GOI they can't stop people from expressing their political opinions.

There was a private Sikh bank in Punjab some time ago I read but then Indira gandhi took it over. A private Sikh bank would be a great idea and essential if we want to move foward the goal of independence from Indian rule. As for daswaand I dont think that applies in countries of non-sikh rule, in Sikh history daswaand is a mandatory religious tax that Sikhs gave to run the political independent state instead of other taxes people pay these days like income tax, VAT, national insurance. So daswaand 10% charitable tax no longer applies as there is no political setup where it can be truly practiced and implemented yet unless you volunteer to give daswaand thats up to you. A 2%-3% tax taken from the accounts would be more rational and reasonable and will attract more people to join up.

Bhai Saheb, only you both can decide what your attitude for showing affection towards each other is supposed to be like. Being intimate or showing affection isn't planned. They're just emotions. And they're purely instinctive! Nobody tells a baby to cling onto the mother for love or protection. S/he just knows! It's all instinctive! Let me give a little example. When my baby was about a month old, the health visitor had come for a check-up. She held him in one hand...and asked me to get him to hold onto my fingers with his hands. She dropped him a little, and caught him with the other hand. As soon as my baby was dropped a bit, he clutched tightly onto my fingers that he had held. It was all done to check some survival instinct. But it was absolutely astounding that a month old baby KNEW to do that!

It's done. I'm sure you'll agree there's nothing wrong with a bit of healthy debate even when it does spill into something a bit tasty and passions are inflamed. I'm off to watch some CBeebies. I'm not.

I was just about to say Yograj is one of my mums favourite Punjabi actors! I remember watching Jatt Sucha Singh Soorma! :D

Where would the money come from? Will it be from sangat's daswandh? If the sangat gave their daswandh directly to the organisations they'd wish to support, they can do it as per their own will. I'm assuming that if there was such a bank...it would control where the money went. (or the donors could be provided with choices). Transparency is a MUST is such 'non-profit' organisations. ^^^ I believe this would be the hardest part to decide on, 'coz the words Sikh and Punjabi are generally always intertwined.

BTW, I am not being serious...

I agree. Its actually quite funny when you think about it. Lets call a truce Kaljugi. You like cartoons....I don't. Its no big deal. Lets be friends. If I can just take his opportunity to explain one point though. You have misunderstood the reasoning behind me mentioning the plot in Children of Heaven....a little boy from a poor family trying to get new trainers for his little sister before mum and dad find out. Whilst the Iranian / PUnjabi village analogy I talked about actually referred to the movie 'Pedar' (father) I mentioned the plot of children of heaven to use as a metaphor for the simplicity of great film. No animations...no fancy graphics....no nothing. Just simple everyday life.

Ah, okk. No problem :smile2:

Good to see unity in this front despite of minor ideological/theological differences within groups. I am all for "ONE VOICE' when it comes to bigger picture and bigger protestant ideological threat our panth faces..!!!

Here is the link to the story above: ression/article5085143/'>http://www.theglobeandmail.com/news/world/on-sikh-separatism-harper-in-india-defends-freedom-of-expression/article5085143/ I think its a great statement may not be genuine statement coming from heart as leaders put business/politics/votes/ bigger strategy as first than human rights. This can alleviate some of media bias against sikhs for sure. May be CSIS director advised stephen harper that raw agents are in Canada like snakes infiltrating sabotaging Canadian Interest/Values. CSIS should investigate dosanjh - liberal mp and his co, they are good chances this guy is raw agent. Stephen Harper himself an evangelical christian, should realize as human, not just sikhs but other miniorities - muslims, christians and buddhist communities also have suffered greatly in hands in hands of government of India so take the words/advise of so called leaders in India as pinch of salt.!!!!

Pasting from GurmatBibek forum as written by Bhai Kulbir Singh ji : http://gurmatbibek.c...ead.php?3,24626

Vaah ji Vaah, Dhan Vaheguru. Dhan guru pyare like Bhai Kulbir Singh who spread so much knowledge and gyan and save papi's like me!

It just gets better and better! "Savvy". What a name! If you ever get another dog you should call it "Avanti". :biggrin2:

I think the reluctance on the part of the powers-that-be to take what happened to SIkhs during those times seriously - and accordingly term it as 'genocide' - is because some of them consider the agitation (there's nothing wrong with the use of the word 'agitation' because Sant Ji DID agitate the Indian government with his words) instigated by Sant Jarnail Singh to be the precursor to the events where the pogroms against Sikhs were carried out. It seems the assumption is this: Sikhs supported Sant Jarnail Singh, India had to take action against rogue elements within its own borders and was therefore justified in any action it took against those who supported Sant Jarnail Singh. The notion that certain sections of the Hindu public took it upon themselves to kill Sikhs is seen as an unfortunate accident due to an unsophisticated, backwards society unable to contain its frustrations, and therefore the blame cannot be placed on the Indian gov't. I think what needs to be done so that the term genocide can be used in the context of what happened in the 80s, is to show the Indian gov't was culpable of pulling the strings which led to so many Sikhs being exterminated. The Indian government lets itself off the hook by using the term 'mobs' to describe those who destroyed Sikh lives, as if those who raped, pillaged and murdered had just spilled out of a football stadium and were letting off some steam. Their use of language to describe what happened back then constantly neuters - and is a total contrast to - the stark reality of what actually happened. What those Sikhs who have the power to bring these issues to the fore need to do is to play a similar game, but use the correct brand of language to bring the realities of those events kicking and screaming into public awareness. Like I said before in another thread, play the enemies game but be one step ahead of them.

Just saw the movie. WOW!

Come on WLS bro, animation isn't limited to kids cartoons. There are very good stories and morals laid out in some things you'd classify as kids cartoons. Just because something is animated, it doesn't mean it can't be realistic and jump into the pool of the human condition - the human psyche. Quit turning this personal, Kalyugi has been quite fair and solid with his points from what I've read. This is a very mainstream and not so deep example, but have you seen the movie "Up"?

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Bx7VmBLvxaw

we moved to a much smaller home with no backyard and can't keep 2 big dogs, so there was no way to keep doberman so we made decision to send him off to punjab to be with my parents rather than giving him up for adoption/shelter. and here's what happened to my once most furious dobie in our neighborhood (all work of my cuzin and mum.. Sigh) lol:

Yes jimmy saville seemed like a nice guy too....

what you mean like this or like this (ordinary run of the mill akj fanatic ???) or maybe this one abotu Sant Jarnail Singh where he calls him a militant maybe you were referring to nidars fanatical hatred of Gurmukh AKJ singhs doing gurbani kirtan... or maybe like this nah this is probably what cisco singh means by "intelligently disprove" someone so Shaheed Bhai Fauja singh is a "fanatic militant" because he saved a Hindu woman from being molested by the police and he tried to bring people who had done beyadbee of Guru Granth Sahbi Ji to justice ??? I am sorry, but I am with Fauja Singh on this one... Nidars students love to go around playing the discrimination and hater card on everyone - have you ever read their own website. They don't like it when their Gurdev is talked about in a derogatory way. He has over the past ten years ridiculed, insulted us and the shaheeed singhs that we respect and love and who gave their lives for sikhi. They can not be here to defend their honour and name, but we are here and we are ready to insult nidar back consistently, we are not doing anything that nidar has not already done. so look in the mirror before you throw a stone.....

basically the letter is not a fake - I have confirmed with Baba Joginder Singh when he was in the UK few weeks ago, Giani Kirpal Singh of Stratford Road Gurdwara Sparkhill (a chardi klaa HariaVela Nihang) phoned Baba Nihal Singh ji and he confirmed that he signed the letter and added that he was disappointed that the letter wasn't issued earlier. Mohan Singh of the Sikh Awareness Society also phoned Baba Harnam Singh Of Damdami Taksal and Sant Samaaj and he confirmed that yes I did sign this letter, which just leaves two we have left to confirm. In light of the above mentioned letter and publicity of nefarious teachings on his website, Last Monday 29th October Nidar's Classes at Somerset Road Gurdwara were immediately cancelled by the Gurdwara Committee. Nidar threw a hissy fit and refused to leave, he tried to bully the Committee, but they were old school Solid Babey who were not afraid and went into his class and informed everyone that this is the last class that will take place, please do not return for the class last week. Nidar Singh in defiance said that he would defy the committees wishes and return with 30 of his students to force his way into the Gurdwara and hold his class, the Old School Babey said "if you going to come then you better be ready for us" I commend the Somerset Road Gurdwara committee as they did not know anything about this Nidar Singh and as soon as they found out they took action. So to support the Gurdwara comittee a group of like minded Peaceful Sikhs will be convening on Somerset Road Gurdwara on Monday 5th November at 7pm to show our support for the Gurdwara and make sure that the Gurdwara Comittee are not bullied or pushed around for doing their duty as Gurdwara Sevadars and protecting the sangat. We are requesting all the sangat to turn up to the Gurdwara and let us show our support to the Gurdwara and in peaceful manner protest against the snatan Hindu-Sikh cult which is insulting to both Sikhs and Hindus. If he does come he will be trespassing and will be dealt with. The sangat not allow Nidar into our Gurdwaras. If Nidar does turn up he will be politely and peacefully removed. Gur Bar akaaal! Sat Sree Akaal

Sikh Solider In Afghanistan