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It all comes down to economics and business deals. I've been doing research on the major politicans and players in the indian establishment it seems their all in one big kabal that is hording all the wealth and business deals away at the expense of the Sikhs political aspirations and ordinary indians who want a better life. I've looked into business background of indian army generals past and present and noticed they all have a stake in keeping the status quo as it suits their financial set up most are directors in major industrial companies. Too often people in our kaum start to look at things at a religious angle and start to think of wild theories that these people are all in league with some hindutva conspiracy the truth is the only conspiracy is they want money, and the greed and lure of money is what drives them no matter if they have hundreds of innocents killed along the way they want (the elitist relatively few) to live a comfortable life at the expense of others (the vast majority)

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Did our all ten Satgurujis worshipped any pictures/photos/paintings etc ? > NO. Did they ordained us to do so ? > NO As most of veers in the forum have rightly said that these paintings/pictures are impressions/beliefs/visualizations/interpretation of artists/painters; so nobody knows how our Satgurus exactly looked. I think, after our Gurus merged themselves in Sri Akaalji, we started missing them and out of this attachment, fond, regard, loyalty, affection, bond; we tried to have a link with Gurus and this was in the form of paintings/pictures which was the only art or form in the 18th & 19th century. Slowly & gradually people started worshipping and bowing (matha tek) to the pictures imitating (bhed chaal) hindu fellows as it is vastly prevalant in their culture.

Yaar, kadhe galti vi aavdi mani di hundi ah. Don't be like the old saying of how the jatt keeps his "aard" even when he knows he is wrong logically. ~~~ Anyways off to bed Singho night. Hopefully at least one positive came out of all this.

Conclusion is these people are devoid of spirituality as they do not believe in Naam simran.They also are not well read with mostly 8 grade or 10 grade education in academic field.How can they realize sea like depth of Dasam Granth sahib. Dr balbir singh wrote on Dasam granth " There are sparks hidden in Dasam granth and when ignited khalsa will rise like a phoenix frfom ashes." May be we are ushering in that era. Dr Balbir singh was younger brother of Dr Bhai veer singh ji. And these missioanries name call Bhai veer singh also.

It is not what Hindus claim.It has been written that Guru sahib has used Indian mythology (That you call Hindu mythology) to convey his message.

Gurdip johal how you like below ਬ੍ਰਹਮਾ ਚਾਰ ਹੀ ਬੇਦ ਬਨਾਏ ॥ ਸਰਬ ਲੋਕ ਤਿਹ ਕਰਮ ਚਲਾਏ ॥ ब्रहमा चार ही बेद बनाए ॥ सरब लोक तिह करम चलाए ॥ Brahma composed all the four Vedas, all the people followed the injunctions contained in them. ਜਿਨ ਕੀ ਲਿਵ ਹਰਿ ਚਰਨਨ ਲਾਗੀ ॥ ਤੇ ਬੇਦਨ ਤੇ ਭਏ ਤਿਆਗੀ ॥੧੯॥ जिन की लिव हरि चरनन लागी ॥ ते बेदन ते भए तिआगी ॥१९॥ Those who were devoted to the Feet of the Lord, they abandoned the Vedas.19. ਜਿਨ ਮਤਿ ਬੇਦ ਕਤੇਬਨ ਤਿਆਗੀ ॥ ਪਾਰਬ੍ਰਹਮ ਕੇ ਭਏ ਅਨੁਰਾਗੀ ॥ जिन मति बेद कतेबन तिआगी ॥ पारब्रहम के भए अनुरागी ॥ Those who abandoned the path of the Vedas and Katebs, they became the devotees of God. ਤਿਨ ਕੇ ਗੂੜ ਮਤਿ ਜੇ ਚਲਹੀ ॥ ਭਾਤਿ ਅਨੇਕ ਦੁਖਨ ਸੋ ਦਲਹੀ ॥੨੦॥ तिन के गूड़ मति जे चलही ॥ भाति अनेक दुखन सो दलही ॥२०॥ Whosoever follows their path, he crushes various types of sufferings.20. Dasam Granth sahib

Now you are coming to the point.That is what Dasam Granth wriets in a detailed manner about Hindu avtars.Their names come all through SGGS and guru sahib lists their lives from Gurmat point in Dasam Granth in adetailed manner so that sikhs know them. Why then a heretic missioanries pick one line and quote out of context saying dasam granth is a Hindu Granth. Same case they can apply to guru Granth sahib also.

Gurdeep ji , i will not say Hindu but indian mythology is abundantly mentioned in Sggs ji. What is wrong in that? What is medni? is it not used in Sggs ji.

My arguement was never against you or your thinking. Totally agree with it. What I was arguing against is the belief that these paintings are depictions of Guru Sahib themself and therefore worthy of worship. Think you got the wrong end of the stick.

He is a real gem and very well read about sikhism.See how he understands Gurmat and give sound logic for that. Above all these are real Gursikhs who stick to truth.

Waheguru ji, letter from bhai mani singh ji to mata Sahib kaur about dasam granth ji

If Johal or any of his missionary buddies tried to remove Sri Dasam Granth Sahib during Maharaja Ranjit Singh's era - Akali ehna nu jhatkadinde. Same reason why these missionaries were quiet like little girls when Sant Jarnail Singh Khalsa Bhindranwale was around. Contemporary painting of Sri Harmandir Sahib with Sri Guru Granth Sahib and Sri Dasam Granth Sahib both parkash.

Throw all ur family photos away first before u throw Guru portraits because you might start idol worshipping your family!!!! Lol Throw all ur family photos away first before u throw Guru portraits because you might start idol worshipping your family!!!! Lol

It is Dasam Granth that gives us singh name.If you do not believe in that do not write singh name.Simple logic. REad carefully what i wrote. I wrote akal takhat till 1944 . Are you getting it? If not then i will give you the reference and unmask your lies. Can you provide exact reference from Twarikh Gurukhalsa about kirtan of Guru Granth sahib and vaaran Bhai gurdas ji only. Sikh rehat maryada allows kirtan of Dasam bani and also Bhai Nanad lal ji compositions.I am sure drafters have referred to Twarikh Guru khalsa.

I am at a loss to understand what bukwas you are writing here.Where did we talk about name change. THis is just evading the topic. Can you point out where name change topic came. What is the relation between 1698 and sodhak committee? Why did not you answer my questionabout dhundha being labelled khalsa by you inspite of the fact that he shuns dasam bani? Admin: This man is here not to get any clarifications but present his agenda in a twisted way. It is high time you put him under Quality control for casting doubts on Dasam granth sahib and ridiculing our Gurudawar sahib Hemkunt.

This is a typical missionary post. What is wrong with mala? Are you telling us that Bhai Bala never existed. Speak clearly Gurdip Do you do meditation.Pl tell us procedure of doing meditation.

How can these heretics discard a granth that form three banis of our nitnem out of five and ardas is also from there.This Granth is part of panth for over three hun dred years.We are paying for revisionist SGPC mistake when they lifted its parkash from akal takhat in 1944. If these people do not abide by this granth let them form a separate sect.They are worse than radhasoamis>Or We will ask akal takhat to weed them out. I ask you a simple question. Why you write Singh with your name if you do not believe in Dasam Granth. Can you answer that?

Dr balbir singh has done a lot of research on Dasam bani.He has seen anadpuri beer of Dasam Grath sahib that was compiled in 1698 by Guru sahib and has written a paper on that. I am away from USA now and will give you on coming back.I live close to you.

Vaheguru Where is this written? I'd love to read Dr Balbir Singh's full paper or whatever he wrote.

Gurdip johal how you like below ਸਾਧ ਕਰਮ ਜੇ ਪੁਰਖ ਕਮਾਵੈ ॥ ਨਾਮ ਦੇਵਤਾ ਜਗਤ ਕਹਾਵੈ ॥ साध करम जे पुरख कमावै ॥ नाम देवता जगत कहावै ॥ Because of virtuous actions, a purusha (person) is known as devta (god) ਕੁਕ੍ਰਿਤ ਕਰਮ ਜੇ ਜਗ ਮੈ ਕਰਹੀ ॥ ਨਾਮ ਅਸੁਰ ਤਿਨ ਕੋ ਸਭ ਧਰਹੀ ॥੧੫॥ कुक्रित करम जे जग मै करही ॥ नाम असुर तिन को सभ धरही ॥१५॥ And because of evil actions, he is known as asura (demon).15. Bachitra natak Guru sahib has given very simple definition of a devta thus trashing all devtas.Which granth does that?

That is not the point.I have said that guru sahib has used Indian mythology to convey his message. Read my posts carefully.

What is it? is it not what you call Hindu mythology. So may be tommorrow you will call SGGS also Hindu granth by picking few lines out of context as missionaries are doing in case of Dasam granth sahib.The same case applies to both. Ghagha and kala afghana are neogurus of missionaries. All missionaries follow them.

Hollow missionaries.

Research it how this word came.It means from what you call hindu mythology , ear wax of shiva. I did not miss the mesage.So is it not from what you call Hindu mythology? Answer yes or no. And then it is a miracle also caused by God.

Mythology is base of all civilizations of the world. Guru sahib has used Indian mythology to convey his message. Now earth has been called medni in SGGs ji. There is no running away from That.Guru sahib has used various names of Indian mythology to convey God's message. God has been mentioned as Gopal when he brings us up.He is called dayal when he is kind to us. He is called Kal when he brings death to us. Gurmukh sang krishan murare SGGS Now we know krishna is the one who killed murare demon. That does not mean that we have to take above verse literal. It refers to God and not Krishan . God is that whose attributes are given in mool mantar.

Yep, when an Indian shop keeper gets a jist he's dealing with an NRI he will try to mark up the price 10x.

Wowzah! Good luck with those prices reminds me of punjabi kaprey shops...they see a foreigner and prices instantly double...robbing in broad daylight

Dividing is just one of the motives.The main motive is to discredit bani of Dasam Pita so that sikhs do not get inspiration to fight injustice and tyranny.

It's a fine line, but if navigated carefully I believe it can help to enhance the appreciation of certain things being explained. You just have to think back to Guru Sahib's darbar when his kavis were producing their works, etc., and it seems like such a hub of creativity and vibrance. Sadly I think this aspect of Sikhi is considered unimportant by most of these one-track minded youth, and I'm afraid to say any such nuance will be lost to the ages, replaced by a shariat vibe where there's only black and white, and no room for self-expression that doesn't contradict Guru Sahib's teachings and spirit of conduct.

Wahe Guru Ji Ka Khalsa Wahe Guru Ji Ki fateh It will be great for the UK sangat to see Gyani Sher Singh. See my recent visit and discussion with Gyani ji http://www.sikhscholar.co.uk/2013/04/gurinder-singh-mann-meets-gyani-sher.html Gurinder Singh Mann

Some manage it sitting behind a screen in UK (busily declaring half the non-Sikhs as the Panth) after all as well.

ਬਿਜਲੀ ਵਾਲੀ ਬਿੱਲੀ LOL.

Just make sure it's nothing like this, else you'll get done for copyright!

Yes, I agree; it would not be only two meters but each & every step where our Gurus walked, sat, rested, preached, etc. It doen't mean that we do 'mattha tek' at every inch of the earth.

That's it! It IS about accumulating wealth for themselves and their future generations and living in luxury. Religion is the 'front' that is used to galvanise the little people.

ਰਨਾਖਸੁ ਜਿਨਿ ਨਖਹ ਬਿਦਾਰਿਓ ਸੁਰਿ ਨਰ ਕੀਏ ਸਨਾਥਾ ॥ हरनाखसु जिनि नखह बिदारिओ सुरि नर कीए सनाथा ॥ Harnākẖas jin nakẖah biḏāri▫o sur nar kī▫e sanāthā. The Lord who tore Harnaakhash apart with His nails proclaimed Himself the Lord of gods and men. Ang 1165, sggs ਕਹਿ ਨਾਮਦੇਉ ਹਮ ਨਰਹਰਿ ਧਿਆਵਹ ਰਾਮੁ ਅਭੈ ਪਦ ਦਾਤਾ ॥੫॥੩॥੯॥ कहि नामदेउ हम नरहरि धिआवह रामु अभै पद दाता ॥५॥३॥९॥ Kahi nāmḏe▫o ham narhar ḏẖi▫āvėh rām abẖai paḏ ḏāṯā. ||5||3||9|| Says Naam Dayv, I meditate on the Lord, the Man-lion, the Giver of fearless dignity. ||5||3||9||

Watch the video you quoted saying "good 1".

Ghagga who has the same mentality as GurdeepJohal gets shut up on live TV:

divide and rule. in the 80's only one Sant Jarnial turned down ton of money, while most people around him took it and betrayed him.

I completely agree with all of the above. Finding the right person (someone we connect with on an emotional level) is so very difficult these days. A few moments with the right person is wonderful. But 3 years? That can't be dismissed so quickly. But then the father is also absolutely correct, and I respect him for his stance on the issue. Too many parents these days are weak-willed and unable to handle their households, and the father has to take into account many considerations and points of view before making a decision.

I feel for you. You've been in a long term relationship with her and are honourable enough to not have taken this relationship to the physical level. You kept her izzat intact. I respect you for that because in today's society not many guys are like this. But at the same time I feel for her father as well. If I were her father I would not want my daughter to marry a non Sikh, especially if she has taken Amrit because Amritdharis are suppose to follow certain sidhaants/asools. An amritdhari cannot marry a non Sikh because she would comprimise her dharm if she did. So I feel sorry for you as I feel for her father, as you both are in a difficult situation. But the girl in this story, she was Amritdhari, so she knew what was expected of her from the side of her Dharm and her father yet she got into a relationship with you. The girl should have been smarter instead of putting you and her father in such a difficult situation. Some how I wish things could get well for you and her father.

Are those muslim women? :D

true. They would get more sales if they lowered the prices. Even from NRI standards these prices are too expensive. Basic rule of selling something is to put the price just right. Do not make something too expensive that people do not buy.

well sorry the website is a shambles - cant view them properly and of course they are too expensive - 100 dollars less than the prices advertised is right other wise way too expenive

hona te eh chahida par inna soukha vi nai na hunda...especially in cases of love marriage between 2 people of different religions, neither one will be ready to give up...thats why many families are mixed...munda-kudi dona ne kehna ki mai tere dharm nu kuch ni kehnda/kehndi, tu menu na keh...mukk di gal eh hai, ki je kisi nu apne dharm naal sachi pyaar hai, ohne dujje dharm de munde/kudi naal viah di gal sochni vi nai...jihna di priorities life ch hor ne, oh jo marji kari jaan...thats what i always say in such threads...if the guy/girl had love/satkaar for Sikhi to begin with, and understood the importance of having a Sikh spouse in order to ensure his/her progeny also had the same, he/she will never marry a non-Sikh...those who dont bother about Sikhi can't be held responsible if they marry outside religion...please forgive me for saying this but then its the parents' fault for not having cultivated that prem in their kids at a young age...magro jinna marji roi jaao "haaye kudi hindu naal firdi"..."haaye kudi nu te musalmaan pasand aa gya"...uncle jee, aunty jee, galti vi fer tuhadi hee aa...see that video i posted in sher-e-punjab thread...Sikhaan diaan kudiyaan aap kehndiya ke asi musalmana naal turna-firna, and sanu koi nai rok sakda...this shows the ugly truth...parents nu chahida ki shoti umro hee Gurmat di gurrti baccheya nu ditti jaave... baaki these are just my opinions...je kisi nu galt lagge taan meherbani karke theek kar deo...je bure lagge te menu maafi de deni jee...

Waheguru Waheguru That is soooo beautiful!! I doubt its Gurbani but whoever wrote this poem deserves a kiss on their feet! :l: Teg Bahadur Simriyai, Ghar Nao Nidh Aave Dhaaye Maharaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaajjj!! Beant Beant Beant Beant Beant Jeo!!

One of our gyanis does this after the reading sometimes. He quotes famous Urdu verses when explaining certain points and its all quite relevant. I like it. The older men really like it because as a generation they would have been familiar with such poetry. Some younger Punjabis do not appreciate the subtleties of the line or words, even if they understand what is being said. The youth born and brought up in this country are totally lost though - then again their Punjabi does not seem to stretch beyond, 'SatSriAkal, Hanji and Nahin.'

Maskeen ji used to quote a lot and whats wrong till its meaning less ... Saab kuch khuda see mang liya Khuda ko mang kar Uth te nahi hai hath mere Is dua ke bad :)