Leaderboard

Ravi Singh, of Khalsa Aid, is someone who I immensely look up to, and I'm sure many others do as well. He is the embodiment of a true Gurmukh who does not preach Sikhi, but practices it. He is a human being that sees no religion/caste/creed and through Khalsa Aid has done great humanitarian work. My question to our community on here is this, how can Ravi Singh be nominated for a Nobel Peace Prize? I know this man deserves it, but how can we as a community get him that nomination? Any ideas, any suggestions? Jason Kenney, Canada's previous Minister of National Defence, a position currently occupied by Harjit Sajjan, has voiced similar sentiment as well:

Preetji Satshriakal Thank you for your kind words that are so true to the essence of your belief. I too have used and still use this old adage of silent majority and vocal minority. But this is now doing irreparable damage as is evident from the Youtube video you watched. The hate has even engulfed the sense of social etiquette/maryada that the 2 parties couldn't even control their hatred in front of a camera. The silent majority should now become vocal and work towards the hope of slowly shrinking that vocal minority. Just imagine how a generation brought up on hate would bring up their progeny. I can't even imagine how much hatred a Sikh child would have for my child if the father of that Sikh child hates hindus. At the same time it's a personal choice/tolerance/stand if one engages in inoccuous banter which again should be within the confines of social etiquette/maryaada. Moreover the key to humour is self-deprecation and it's golden rule is that if you give it, you need to have the maturity to take it too. And I engage in such banter with my very best Sikh friend, who was the one sitting next to me in the gurudwara that day and held my hand when I wanted to stand up in midst of that speech. I have him to thank for keeping me in confines of the etiquette/maryaada that day. Thank you Siddharth

Yeah, just as expected, it's the one-man propaganda team of Ron Bandarjee (sp.). I think he's a Bengali. I think he must think "who are these turbanned and bearded people from Punjab?" And hates us just because we are foreign to him (as a Bengali). Perhaps Sikhs in Canada should work to get a parliamentary declaration against "Hindu apartheid" (the caste system). Use the term "Hindu apartheid" for maximum effect.

I often think about this too. I agree that most of Gurbani is not in Punjabi and even the few parts that are in Punjabi, are in a very archaic form that is not clearly understood by the modern-day speaker. I still however think that Punjabi Sikhs (not all Sikhs) should be imparting Punjabi to their oncoming generations. Punjabi is the language of our ancestors and is a part of our identity. I've often noticed that the kids that do speak Punjabi are the ones that are more likely to be proud of who they are, and not feel insecure about their identity. The ones that are disconnected from Punjabi are the ones that have outlandish and shaky ideas regarding not only themselves but Sikhi as well, especially my Hindi speaking "Sikh" cousins, forgive me for judging them. So, if you want your oncoming generations to know who they are, where they come from, imparting Punjabi is a great initiative. But all Sikhs need to be imparting something far more important, and that is Gurmukhi. Not the language, but the script. I think that if we can get Mandarin, Arabic, Russian, Spanish, English written in the Gurmukhi script, then that is the ultimate way Sikhi can flourish. Most Sikh youth today cannot read Gurmukhi, and thus are experiencing a disconnect from Sikhi. I myself have only recently learnt Gurmukhi and it makes a huge difference once reading the GGS straight up, rather than having to read English translations.

Haridasji Apologies for replying a bit late. My heart is in the right place but being a mere mortal I do feel the hurt. Throughout the history and also in present times, it has always been the preachers that have preached hatred. And it's most damaging/disparaging when it comes from the house of God himself. My concern is about what is going on within the Sikh community that such hate for hindus is on the rise. Regards Siddharth

@Siddhartha I would like to say this, our religion, our Granth, our Gurudwaras do not incite or preach hatred against any other group of people or religion. So your Sikh friend(s) that are getting playful with Hindu jokes are not representative of the religion. However, their actions and sentiments towards Hindus, which though condemnable, have occurred for several reasons if I may say so. In fact, taking a recent look at Sikh-Hindu relations, one would conclude that their actions/sentiments are natural responses to what's taking place. See, Sikh-Hindu differences have always been present from the start (think Gangu), but have never been as extreme as they have been in the past 33 years. I don't think I need to state the obvious, but 1984 was a deciding factor for the Sikh-Hindu relationship, one that has gotten bitter and sour. And to be honest, it was not the people, but the work of governments that divided religious groups for the vote bank, but the damage has already been done. And Sikh jokes, Sikhs not getting constitution rights, the Sikh identity being ridiculed and misconstrued, the rise of the Hindutva supporting BJP, the rise of RSS and its clashes with Sikhs are not making any things better, and are instead dividing the relationship our two communities share even further. So, what do you expect from your Sikh friends? To go along happily seeing the ridicule their community faces, or to act out, albeit foolishly, against the community doing the ridicule. Come on now, be realistic. If the Hindus want to have a cordial relationship with Sikhs, why don't they then amend their mistakes. Perhaps the Indian youth (including the majority of Hindus) can join up together to ban Sikh jokes that are subversively cancerous to my community's image, maligning us as idiots. But no, instead I see even the most liberal, educated Hindu youth take pleasure in these jokes, and they expect my Indian Sikh cousins to laugh along. Oh come on, how low can you people get! Take a look at Vir Sanghvi, an Oxford-educated gentleman, who believes that Sikh jokes are part of the "good-natured Indian tradition", well what a "great" tradition the Indian people have, ridiculing a minority to whom many Indian Hindus owe their very existence to. Perhaps you could get us our identity in the Indian constitution, as we are Sikhs, an independent group of people with independent beliefs not affiliated to Hinduism. But no, even the most "informed" Indian I've met is likely to say that Sikhs are nothing more than the military hand of Hinduism, and have been created to protect it. Well, thank you for completely tossing out the foundations of our religion, and resorting us to nothing but a military faction of Hindus. Perhaps, you can collectively get us justice for 1984 by punishing the perpetrators walking in broad day light. But no, not only do the governments protect them, many Hindutva supporting people of India justify the deaths of Sikhs in 1984, and believe that we deserved it. What's funny is that with a significant percentage of Indian Hindus holding the opinions of above, how do you not expect us to not only break away from you, but also to despise you. We are Sikhs, but we are also humans with flaws, and so we have every right to hate what's been done to us, and to hate who did it, and of course these lessons will be passed down to our children, so they that don't end up facing what we did in the past. I hope you will realize that the hate you experienced isn't senseless, it's the result of years of differences, deceits and a genocide that have led to this feeling. So perhaps take a broader look at why your Sikh friends are treating you the way they are. And I honestly believe that these relations that have been damaged by governments, can be mended by people, but in the current situation, the Indian Hindu majority doesn't seem to want that, and instead are looking towards a far more dividing goal: a Hindu India.

Hello Simran Title is a Title and is a question. Not a statement or my belief. There is a difference. So if I title a discussion as Should same-sex marriage be allowed/legalised, it doesn't in any way implies what I stand for. Or would it mean any different if it would be " Is it Hindus, Hinduism & it's beliefs vs Sikh, Sikhi & Sikhism?" When I wrote: "I'm here because I now feel that either the teachings, teachers, interpretations or the followers of Sikhism themselves are in the wrong or being guided with malacious intent." See that there is a use of word either followed by options that I feel might not have been executed in a righteous way. My quote: "Are Sikhs somehow being taught this disrespect through the family unit, gurudwaras, community congregations, media? " Again a question put across to everyone includinf you to encourage discourse. Not a statement of my belief. Now to address your question as to why I did not draw parallel between a Walmart store manager and a Gurudwara Commitee. Firstly the issue is not discrimination. I wasn't stopped from entering the gurudwara, wasn't directed to sit in a hindu only corner, wasn't asked to leave telling me that I couldn't attend a specific ceremony, wasn't stopped from approaching the granth sahib & prostrating in front of it, wasn't denied parshad, wasn't stopped from helping in the langar, wasn't stopped to partake langar, wasn't asked to leave after the langar and wasn't mistreated in anyway. So I had nothing to complain about in terms of discrimination/racism. I am not sure whether you go to a hindu temple so lets use your hindu friend's home for this example. Would you feel discriminated if you went to one of your hindu friends home for a pooja and the pundit there in his sermons start saying: "that we have to be proud of our religion and be staunch. Hindus have been turning the other cheek for so long, anyone can make fun of our Gods.make movies and mere mortals/actors can potray our God, insult us by saying Hindus drink cow urine and worship cats, dogs, monkeys etc. Hindus are peace loving and have never first raised our hand. Its always the foreigners invading and killing Hindus. He then taps into his limited knowledge/awareness and goes on to mention about hindu genocide in the decade following 1984 riots, Sikh eating beef etc." Again, before you put the above example in quote, I am telling you that it's an example and not a statement of my belief. So now at your hindu friends place there are his/her other hindu friends, family & relatives. What would you do? Would you get up and leave? Would you wait for ceremony to end, then express your displeasure to your friend then & there or at a later stage? Would you wait for ceremony to finish then approach the hindu priest? Would you stand up midst of priest's discourse and confront?...so many options. You would take one that you think is in realm of your understanding of etiquette. Ofcourse it is very normal to approach someone directly who has offended you and lot of people still take that course. You are presuming here that I didn't have a conversation with the father of that 8 year old boy. But why do you need to know whether I approached the father and/or the gurudwara committee? What would that tell you? Whether I'm confident or not? Whether I'm educated or not? Whether I'm courageous or timid? Doesn't it suffice that I have with open heart approached this forum community including you with a question? If your hindu/sikh friend would approach you that he/she felt hurt would you try to discuss why's and how's or would you ask what did he/she do to address that hurt? How does the title come across to you Simran when you read it? Would it matter if I changed it from: "Is it really Sikh, Sikhi, Sikhism vs Hindu, Hinduism and it's beliefs?", To: Is it Hindus, Hinduism & it's beliefs vs Sikh, Sikhi & Sikhism?" Or: "Bad experience at Gurdwara". Would you then draw different conclusions? Or most importantly would you still draw conclusions from a title after reading the content? I am here not to seek apology for someone you don't know who did something you don't have evidence for. I'm here to guage whether the feeling I had reasons/ground to it. Whether there is increasing discord due to misguided preachings? Whether we together can do something to mollify the anger/hurt? I stand to gain a lot Simran if you come and participate in this forum. Thanks Siddharth

vaheguru ji ka khalsa vaheguru ji ki fateh, ji Swagat to you for visiting this site Sidharth ji. As someone said before, the views of a loud minority do not necessarily represent the views of the quiet majority..! I know for sure that a lot of Hindus who also worship Sri Parbrahman ji, do not hate Sikhs (and vice versa). But, I was watching a youtube video about sikh/hindu relations, and a 'sardar' commented something very rude about hinduism, and an 'hindu' replied with saying that 'sikhs need to be attacked again' (which is very wrong thinking). Duniya kuch bhi kahe, mann meh bhakti rahe. Don't change your views because of a crowd of people, rather keep your views because of what the source says (such as for sikhism, the source would be our patth/itihas etc). I've even heard so called hindus making fun of other dharmic hindus as well, someone even made an odd rhyme in a bhajan like 'jado da baniya mera khanaa, mere te hasda hai sara jahana', but that doesn't represent the majority.. What I'm trying to say is that people only talk from what avastha they are at, a lot are not at the ideal state yet.. Apologies to all if I made any mistakes. vaheguru ji ka Khalsa vaheguru ji ki fateh

True, so the question is how are we going to implement real life real world consequences for these western / canada based hindu indian extremists let them know Sikhs will not tolerate this abuse any more. Its time for that fight back that push back to smash the face of indian hindu extremism and hindu terrorism as a collective group. They need political outlawing and legal consequences for their hate advocacy against Sikhs and our faith.

And there are Hindu Govt. undercover agents in canada, usa and other western countries who are working tirelessly against sikhs to damage our image as a community in front of western world. Recent examples are the attempts being made to spoil the leadership campaign of Jagmeet Singh.

errr you told us exactly what you saw and that was a speech by an eight year old remembering those who sacrificed their lives to avenge the countless murdered of June 1984 and immediately after in operation woodrose in Punjab. That was a historical recounting there was no hate speech so zip it with your fabrications ... since 1990s who have been attacked , whose places of worship damaged , defiled or even in the case of the Gyan Godri gurdwara totally demolished? who have been falsely imprisoned and are still being killed by police for simple naam jap protests? The facts speak for themselves and the number of times I have been told by HIndus that if I speak up about the lack of justice go live in pakistan or out right call me a terrorist ...Have shame a little before slinging mud on SIkhi or sikhs .

To Siddhartha, I actually to think you are a troll. I'll end it at that and am not going to participate in your thread, because I do see it as exactly how you've written it in the title as an insult to the whole Sikh panth. Write what you like in fancy words and long vocabulary. Yes I do think you are one of those people that cannot bear Sikhs making awareness about 1984, however way it's done, you'd probably have something to complain out. I'm not going to bow down to you and apologise for an experience that you've had like the others did. You asking if I had an experience like that, what would I do. I've experienced 100 times worse than what you've been through with people of your religion. You'd be quite surprised to what I've had to deal with in my life, the list of experiences would be 10 pages long or more, not just one of experience as yours. But I've stop communicating with those Hindu and Punjabi friends that I had bad experiences with. I've had to listen to the Sikh jokes directly and been manipulated into turning about my own religion, I've had all this bakwas from your religion trying to belittle Sikhs and making out we are troublemakers or cause fights with Hindus and had threats and my life endangered when I did oppose of what was being told to us, to Sikhs to go against their own faith. What did I do? I simply left those people that gave me grief and turned to Guruji and it's the best thing I did. But that doesn't mean I think all Hindus are bad, there are good and bad people in every faith/religion. Your experience is nothing to what our family have been through, but we don't go around saying "Is it Hindus, Hinduism & it's beliefs vs Sikh, Sikhi & Sikhism?" That's because we know the whole community is not at fault, as you are asking about the Sikh community. Tu ik ceremony di gal karda? Sade te kehi saal lang gey c is bakwas ch. You've had one experience from a visit to the Gurdwara, whereas I've lost loved one in my family and have to live with it for the rest of my life and still we dont openly tell people what we've been through and accept it as past and try to carry on with the best we can. How would I feel, you ask? I feel this:

No translation of Sri Guru Granth Sahib ji in any language can equal Sri Guru Granth Sahib ji. Others languages are in Sri Guru Granth Sahib ji but in Gurmukhi script. Why write Sanskrit in Gurmukhi? A question you should be asking is why didn't Sri Guru Gobind Singh ji do Parkash of Sri Guru Granth Sahib ji in a different language like Urdu? Language is more or less a medium as you say. Why did Sri Guru Arjun Dev ji take all the different languages and write them in Gurmukhi script only in Sri Guru Granth Sahib ji. Anyone who as tried translating Sri Guru Granth Sahib ji in a different language can tell you. Firstly other languages cannot grasp what is said. Many words used in Sri Guru Granth Sahib ji are not in other languages. So lets replace the word with a phrase that will capture the word. The problem arises here because the word that was replaced by a phrase is not the image of the Guru but what a person may think of the word. The word can't be simply replaced by a phrase. The translator can't grasp what is said with his limited intellect and then fails because the other language is limited in various ways. Only the Guru can fully deliver the message. 3ho are a prime example of what terrible mistakes are made when the translation of Sri Guru Granth Sahib ji in a different language is done. Even some of the 3ho are recognizing the huge mistake made by their leadership and are learning Gurmukhi to actually see Sri Guru Granth Sahib ji grace.

My brother I took my time to reply to you because your comments hurt me and I was contemplating whether I should reply or not. But I came the conclusion that if I don't reply then I defeat the purpose of my visit here. Yes, I have a very smart 6 year old who has been evaluated as gifted and doing year 7 mathematics in year 1. Thankyou that you somehow acknowledge that I'm bringing up my child the right way when you say "good for you". Now when I wrote that half of the congregation were hindus with their head covered and bowed, you answered that maybe they should pick up some books and educate themselves. So if they are educated about the issues and have comtempt for Sikhs, Sikhism, Gurus and their teachings, what do you suppose they are doing there in the gurudwara? When I wrote History is documented, I meant that if any child goes on the internet and search for 1984 riots, he/she will come across lot of conflicting information. Same goes with the books. For the sake of this argument, let's take sides. Being a hindu I can quote you books written by hindus, civilians, military personnel n analysts & Caucasians, information on websites and blogs that document The atrocities hindus endured at the hands of Sikhs. Being a Sikh, I'm sure you can bombard me with links and information depicting the atrocities inflicted by hindus on Sikhs. That's why I wrote history is documented and suffers the bane of opinions & biases. Now if you yourself witnessed the horrors of 1984, who in their sanity can question the authenticity of the experience and its aftermath.Now our kids access these conflicting sources of information and approach their parents. How you handle that query and how you answer that inquisitiveness dictates whether your kid would hate mine just because they are of different beliefs. And this is why I'm here. I don't want that ti happen. Then you wrote "No it's the other way around" to the the question whether Sikhs hate hindus. And then you ask me to spare you my BS, tell me I'm lying and call me the worst of venemous snake hiding behind kind words. You chose to ignore the kind words, my approach, my demeanour and relied on your presumption to call me names and then went on to write "no it's other way around". Brother, Gurudwara - door/pathway to Guru. I was there. And you chose to ignore that. Hope you don't anymore feel that I'm someone using spurious IP addresses & trolling the public forums on Sikhism to spew venom and then come to party to have a heartwarming discussion. Your brother Siddharth

There is so much pain, so much hatred, so much anger... it is horrible, just sickening, zombies having thirst for blood. Found these soothing words, may those who so wish, take advantage from their contents and calm themselves, there is no need to set fire, from no one, from no side. If you have wisdom, you don’t have to go through pain to learn. We go through pain because we lack wisdom. But remember that you will come out of pain or hurt at some time or the other. It is important for one to have a larger context to life. When you have a larger context, then trivial things don’t really bother you. They are like waves on the surface of the ocean – they rise and fall. So, if you are in pain, or have been hurt, here are the four ways of looking at the situation that will ease your pain! 1) The one who has hurt you is pained Many a times, people cause hurt to others because they have scars, and they are unhappy and miserable. They can only share what they have. They are hurt and they are sharing the hurt with you. You might think that these people are hurting you purposely, but in fact it is because they do not have happiness inside them, they don’t have joy or peace. They have pain inside them, which is why they are causing you hurt. So, what should the wounded party do? Compassion. You have to be compassionate to those who hurt you, because they are wounded themselves. 2)The one causing you hurt is just ignorant There are people who hurt others out of sheer ignorance. They are not sensitive and they are not aware that their actions are hurting others. They don’t know themselves and they don’t know what they are doing. They are ignorant and arrogant. You can only feel sorry for them and hope that someday they will become sensitive and intelligent. 3)You’re hurting, because It is just karma You had to get this hurt, and if not this person, then someone else would have given it to you. You must have caused some hurt to someone in the past, so nature is bringing it back to you now. When you know that it's just the karma being repaid, you feel very settled. 4)It is being done to make you strong Nature is bringing this pain to you so that you become strong, so that you discover the strength and power within you. Usually, when a pole is being installed, after the installation, they shake the pole to check whether it is rooted well enough or not. Hurt is just that, to see whether you are well established in yourself, whether you are in wisdom or not. Every hurt is trying to shake you, to see whether you are strong or not. It tests your strength. It is to make you stronger. If you think a wise person or someone intelligent is hurting you, then you should be thankful because there is some purpose in that. They want you to be strong. If your mother is scolding you, she is not doing it with bad intentions. If your father is scolding you, you can’t say, “Oh my father hurt me! My mother hurt me!” Your parents are not hurting you – they are coming from a space of care and concern for you. We must recognize that they are doing things out of their limited understanding and love for you. *Having said all this above, in my personal opinion, terrorists, criminals, and racists, they should get punished for their evil acts against humanity. Of course, there is no doubt, there is no escape in the hereafter world, they will get their dues, but they should get punished here also, and the punishment should be exemplary, in the sense that if someone wants to do some wicked actions, will have to think twice before doing so, though I am quite aware, that when they do all those evil acts, it is evident, they neither have brains nor heart. Sat Sree Akal.

Seriously? Take a chill pill, bro. He's discussing his experiences with words (that, too, pretty seriously), not taking an AK-47 spraying pilgrims in the parikarma.

You want to pray for the hurricane??? Wouldn't it be better to pray for the victims?

They're really nobodies. Average Sikh wouldn't even be aware they exist, they're very insignificant. Sikhs are much more powerful than Hindus in Canada. Our own traitors are more of a threat, as well as the Indian agents who are well hidden behind the scene.

Yes, I was aware of this. But how can we as a community raise this idea up to the people, the few elites as you say, that can make this happen? Surely, there's something we can do to get Ravi Singh more exposure.

I can read write Hindi/Urdu which are basically the same when spoken. But nothing matches my mother tongue Punjabi, such a sweet language.

Good idea if you got ways to implement it, there needs to be more people politically aware of canada based hindu extremists. I'm sure canada must have some laws against hate speech and calls to violence all which ron bannerjee has advocated against Sikhs in the past. I'm amazed no canadian Sikh group has got the authorities to take action against him and his racist hindu jewish group of nutjobs. This one man group + a handful of canadian jewish extremists + social media / internet can be quite powerful if you spread hate against your victims to violent ignorants. Remember hitlers mein kemp and views was just that. It was all in the head of one deranged man until he spread his hateful views about jews and others by his book and speeches and soon there was mayhem against minorities in 1930s germany. Ron bannerjee is a very ugly mentall ill hindu bengali extremist but dangerous also because of his ability to spread evil the calls for violence and hate against sikhs, muslims and others.

I agree with Akalifauj. Translation to other languages leads to distortion of Guru's true message. Bhuk Chuk maaf ji..

ਮੇਰੈ ਮਾਥੈ ਲਾਗੀ ਲੇ ਧੂਰਿ ਗੋਬਿੰਦ ਚਰਨਨ ਕੀ ॥ मेरै माथै लागी ले धूरि गोबिंद चरनन की ॥ Merai māthai lāgī le ḏẖūr gobinḏ cẖarnan kī. To my forehead is attached the dust of the feet of the Master of the universe. ਸੁਰਿ ਨਰ ਮੁਨਿ ਜਨ ਤਿਨਹੂ ਤੇ ਦੂਰਿ ॥੧॥ ਰਹਾਉ ॥ सुरि नर मुनि जन तिनहू ते दूरि ॥१॥ रहाउ ॥ Sur nar mun jan ṯinhū ṯe ḏūr. ||1|| rahā▫o. The demigods, ordinary men, and the silent saints, from them, this boon is afar. Pause ਦੀਨ ਕਾ ਦਇਆਲੁ ਮਾਧੌ ਗਰਬ ਪਰਹਾਰੀ ॥ दीन का दइआलु माधौ गरब परहारी ॥ Ḏīn kā ḏa▫i▫āl māḏẖou garab parhārī. O Lord, compassionate to the poor and the destroyer of pride, ਚਰਨ ਸਰਨ ਨਾਮਾ ਬਲਿ ਤਿਹਾਰੀ ॥੨॥੫॥ चरन सरन नामा बलि तिहारी ॥२॥५॥ Cẖaran saran nāmā bal ṯihārī. ||2||5|| Nama seeks the asylum of Thine feet and is a sacrifice unto Thee. SGGSji Ang 694 Dhan Bhagat Namdev ji ??

simple answer is Guru Granth Sahib says again and again Akal Purakh is the Satguru and the Bani is the Guru Guru Amar Das ji in Salok Mahala 3 tells us on ang 515: Waho Waho banee nirankaar hai tis jayvad avar na ko-ay. Waaho! Waaho! is the Bani, the Word, of the Formless Lord. There is no other as great as He is. Waho Waho agam athaahu hai Waho Waho sachaa so-ay. Waaho! Waaho! The Lord is unfathomable and inaccessible. Waaho! Waaho! He is the True One. Waho Waho vaypar Waho hai Waho Waho karay so ho-ay. Waaho! Waaho! He is the self-existent Lord. Waaho! Waaho! As He wills, so it comes to pass. Waho Waho amrit naam hai gurmukh paavai ko-ay. Waaho! Waaho! is the Ambrosial Nectar of the Naam, the Name of the Lord, obtained by the Gurmukh. Waho Waho karmee paa-ee-ai aap da-i-aa kar day-ay. Waaho! Waaho! This is realized by His Grace, as He Himself grants His Grace. naanak Waho Waho gurmukh paa-ee-ai an-din naam la-ay-ay O Nanak, Waaho! Waaho! This is obtained by the Gurmukhs, who hold tight to the Naam, night and day.

who are the sikhs? where is written that dehdari are not sikhs then our 10 guru were also in deh in body what will you say about them ? our gurus write that ਸਿਖੀ ਸਿਖਿਆ ਗੁਰ ਵੀਚਾਰਿ ॥ Sikhee Sikhiaa Gur Veechaar || Contemplating the Guru, I have been taught these teachings;

Sure I'm lost. I'm willing to accept it, but I'm not going around calling myself God. In that respect I differ from Devtas. If you're going to be snarky at-least be a bit more subtle about it. All I've done is stated what Guru Gobind Singh Ji wrote in his bani, if that's a bitter pill to swallow for you then so be it.

Yeah but there's still no one more lost than you LoL

vaheguru ji ka khalsa vaheguru ji Ki fateh, ji Sat Sri Akal, ji! I understand what you're saying, but it would be hard to explain that to them because they have already made up their minds.. I think people should just be told once, after that just let them be since they will accumulate karmas, and justice will be served. They say Kalyug is going to get worse anyways ;( Personally speaking, I can't do much about it, so I practice bhakti to receive shanti for the mind + body and inspire others to practice pavitr karmas too if they ask me for help. Satya, Swachhta, Bhakti, & Daya are neccesary. Vaheguru ji ka khalsa vaheguru ji ki Fateh

The Devs have always been egotistical, even now they still are as they are all bound to Death and will feel his force. Even Durga is lost is Maya, She herself is powerless without God and would have died at the hands of the Asuras if God hadn't given her the power she possessed. On a side note also the trinity are NOT Sikhs, that's a load of nonsense. Sikhs accept Gurbani and never proclaim themselves as Supreme, like all the trinity did. Durga didn't foretell anything, she ran away from the field of battle as the Daints were beating her, she would have died if she stayed. She went to Rishi Ji as she was running for her life and begged him to save her. The Chandi Guru Gobind SIngh Ji used was never Durga or any Devi, he was against any form of worship of any Devi. Durga is nothing more than one of countless maids that served him. Not the other way around. She serves him.

That was classic!

First of all were just assuming they were hindus how do you know they wern't just moneh sikhs? Secondly suppose they were all hindus when did I say that hindus visiting a gurudwara had contempt for sikhi? I specifically said hindus and hindu leaders who had malicious intent for sikhi. Now this is what you said "Majority of sangat in gurudwara were Hindus with their head covered n bowed in reverence, most of an age incapable of comprehending the hatred let alone the reason behind it." THATS why I said they should go pick up some books maybe that would help them understand the hatred(as u put it) a bit better NOT simply because they were hindus at a gurudwara. In the future please dont twist my words its not gonna help us see eye to eye any better. Now here is big issue im having with all your posts which is HUGE false equivalency during the period from 84-95 tens of thousands of sikhs were killed by the indian government,hindu mobs and the punjab police(under directions from hindus) how many hindus were killed during that period? 300 or 400 most likely even less(Note I'm not trying to downplay the deaths of innocent hindus any loss of innocent life is tragic just pointing out that the number of hindu lives lost was miniscule compared to the number of sikh lives lost) now this is were you'll bring out numbers from books written by hindus and information from hindu websites and hindu blogs with shamelessly over inflated numbers of hindu deaths at which point I'll cease responding to you because I'm not interested in playing he said she said with you I'm interested in FACTS. On one hand you have a majority quom of 966 million attempting genocide and persecuting a minority of 20million and yet that minority quom is the one spreading hatred simply when they point out the injustices they've suffered? Maybe it was the fact that Shaheeds Bhai Satwant Singh and Beant Singh were being honored in that Gurudwara is what got you upset maybe thats what you call spreading hatred. Well this may be a tough pill for you to swallow but until the earth is swallowed by the sun we will always honor our shaheeds and we will never forget there sacrifice. Isnt the fact that Indira Gandhi is remembered as hero by hindus all over India spreading hatred? Isnt the fact that the evil kutti has a international airport named after her spreading hatred? Isnt the fact the BJP supported RSS is spreading propaganda and trying to destroy the very fabric of sikhi in our own motherland of Punjab spreading hatred? Yet you have the audacity to come to a sikh forum and tell us sikhs are the ones with malicious intent and that were spreading hatred in our gurudwaras that is why I called you a snake. Watch the whole video. Shaheed Bhai Jaswant Singh Ji was tortured and killed by the Punjab Police shortly after he made that speech. If you truly dont have venom in your heart you should also check out the works of Ram Naryan Kumar(hes a fellow hindu as I said I'm only against hindus who have malicious intent towards sikhs and sikhi). I also noticed that in your post you conveniently avoided answering my question about if you though KP Gill was a hero or not hmmm I wonder why.... Yet after all this you come to us and tell us were the ones spreading hatred honestly it makes me wanna puke. Maybe u think that Shaheed Bhai Jaswant Singh ji was spreading hatred in the above video also. Now you will probably start spouting the usual bs of "times are now different what uses is bringing this all up now" and the answer to that is simple these aren't some events which happened 100 years ago were the perpetrators and victims are all dead THE MURDERERS OF OUR PEOPLE ARE STILL OUT THERE AND INSTEAD OF BRING THEM TO JUSTICE HINDUS WORSHIP THEM AS HEROS. I'm sorry but until you get the honesty to acknowledge that hindus have fu@ked sikhs over and are continuing to f us over to this day we will never see eye to eye.As for my kids hating your kids for there different beliefs no that will never happen though they might hate them because instead of helping us in our time of need there parents stood by and let our people be butchered not only that but because they swallowed government propaganda hook line and sinker. Siddartha you sound like a good person without a agenda(I may be completely wrong here but lets assume I'm not) but from the sound of it you want us to forget what happened in the recent past and turn a blind eye to whats happening to this day and just start singing kumbaya with you but if we do that the snakes within your community will ensure that sikhi goes the same way buddhism did in India

Can you please explain what you mean by safety measures that the Gurus have put in place to prevent dogma? Because bani being poetic and musical does not prevent dogma. In fact, in Islam, an Abrahamic relgion, the koran is written in poetic verse. In Christianity, also an Abraham religion, gospels are sung to music. So your argument doesn't exactly hold true here.

I think this thread has gone off-topic. To wrap up the previous argument on my part, I'll say this, I believe that Sikhi is a rule of principles that need to be followed, and therefore it is dogmatic. Now if any of you would like to argue this further, you or I can either make a separate thread for this. I'm hoping that members on this forum can further criticize and contribute to my list. And then eventually, we can collectively come up with a way to put this list into motion and not just talk. I would like many of the things on this list to happen soon, and I would definitely like to be a part of it. So, any suggestions, ideas, criticisms are welcomed.

you do realise wildlife may used it to make nests e.g. mice would you be happy to encourage that?

but surely maya was the first because the three serve under her and also got influenced by maya and had internal argument where they forgot who was the source of their power ...? And also Maya begged at Guru ji 's duar (Guru Ram das ji) for help to be made pavitar by being used in sewa...she would only beg at Akal Puarkh's door as she is sworn to serve only It/they/SHe/He

Ajeet...what do you think I'm doing here in this forum my brother? Seeking apology? For what? And you say it takes two to tango and in same breath you say don't go to gurudwara, no one is forcing you. Brother...ek haath se taali nahi bajti...I'm requesting you to not hurt...and you are telling me to introspect...what do you think I have done that I'm here? Who is blaming sikhs? Did I even mention it? How did you deduce it? Mere bhai...taali meri gaal pe baja ke kuch shanti milti ho to aisa hi sahi... I can't stop words coming from your mouth just like you couldn't in case of your hindu friend. But I also would have not let go the opportunity to put him on his behind if he had committed such disrespect. I can't stop what MY RSS is doing and you can't rein in the conduct of various factions in SGPC. Circle of concern and circle of influence. We have our concerns Ajeet about which we can't do anything but what are we doing with issues that we have influence on? This is why Im here. We should be doing our bit to reduce this hatred by inviting eachother my brother. Not push away by saying no one is forcing you to go to gurudwara. It takes two to tango. I am here my brother with open mind and open heart.

bro one point Guru ji is app Parmeshvar i.e. mukht (free from Maya, panj chor etc.) Guru ji has also pointed out how Brahma, Vishnu, Shiva are subject to Maya and panj chor according to ancient texts so how can they be equivalent ? Sikhi is the true underlying path for all the universe because it expresses the truth behind sargun roop and how labels fall away as one progresses .

Great advice. And it's your life, and hers. You two decide when you want kids, not your parents. They need to mind their own business.

It's important to note that both sides- east and west Punjab are fighting rigorous battle against the system that is pushing Urdu and Hindi on Punjabi speaking culture.

Hello BhForce My friend, I'll attempt to assign words to my thoughts in the best possible way that I know of though might not be able to answer to all your points/questions in one sitting. Beautiful shlok that rings so true with what I stand for hence rendering every other point of yours in condradiction with the message in that shlok. You have taken undue advantage by apologising for someone else's actions thus putting me on a backfoot. Such is the nature of this gesture. I thank you for it. You will have no argument from my side in relation to the exploitation and sheer inhumanity perpetrated by priests and Brahmin class amongst Hindus. I am a Brahmin by birth and absolutely abhor the past n present conduct/rituals that would dehumanise. I won't go into my faith n beliefs. That's for some other day. The social structure of that society was lateral with equality which was exploited by people with power and so called knowledge and was turned into a caste system. That was an act of men in the name of a religion. I'm sure you would be aware that some Sikhs consider themselves superior than other Sikhs and won't marry their daugthers into some family names that they consider inferior. I'm sure you would be aware of terminology widely used in Punjab in denigrating tones for field workers from UP/Bihar/Bengal/Pahadi and their treatment. I am aware that ancient caste system still prevails in sections of Hindu society. My point is that that dehumanising that you mentioned still happens. Within your n my community. Do you support it? No you don't. My comment of Sikhs making Hindu jokes have been given too much significance where I felt the hurt behind the need for such jokes. But since you made point pertaining to that comment that no wonder such denigrating jokes are being made, so I'll assume that you include Sikhs amongst the group that were dehumanised alongwith Shudras. But I dont see Hindu "lower caste/shudras/BC's making Hindu jokes despite of the atrocities. So its definitely only Sikhs making Hindu jokes. Now comes the topic of content of these jokes. I have cracked many a Santa Banta jokes in life and never have I come across a content of the joke that potrays anything but foolishness/dumbness/stupidity. Meaning that if Santa/Banta of that joke were replaced with Ram/Shyam or Nasir/Beg, Irish/Yank/Jap/Pommy the joke would still potray the same meaning with no hint of religious/communal undertone. I understand that some Sikhs play along by their own choice or they feel they don't have a choice but bear/laugh or some retaliate and express their displeasure. That's a personal choice. Where I choose to laugh on a pandit joke, brahmin joke, indian joke, currymuncher joke, jew joke, irish/scottish joke, jap/chinese/go.k joke etc., I am acutely aware of the setting the joke is made in, the content of the joke, the intention of the joke and most importantly the sensitivity of the audience. And I vehemently check anyone cracking any hurtful joke. Then you have drawn a parallel with the white/black situation and the related jokes. About KKK and no issues in denigrating them. And in another point a joke about "sardarji barah vaj gaye?". I completely understand your logic behind these points. I completely understand that some Sikhs might feel offended by Santa/Banta jokes just like some Hindus with pandit jokes. And I implicitly understand that some Sikh might feel the right to making such jokes due to the oppression they felt and/or feel. I completely understand that what you might think as funny I might consider offensive and vice versa. But are the likes of Colbert/trump denigrating white people or KKK? Do you think everyone paints white people and KKK with the same brush? Are white people represented by KKK? Are the black priests/preachers deriding/condemning white people or KKK? Have you ever come across a Sardarji joke that is about Sikhism, teachings, any gurujis, Sikh women, Sikh sexual prowess, Sikh valour/cowardice etc.? I have never. Never would I ever be a part of such demeaning act. Again, I understand your logic of denigrating while/after being oppressed. But Sir, this is today. We don't need this hatred now. Are Sikhs still feeling oppressed in USA, Uk, Canada n in other countries? Why do we have to teach our kids that Hindus did this and Hindus did that, even while living overseas? One of the brothers in this forum has asked me to spare him my BS etc. Why such hate? Where is the need of such hate? To support a cause? Does the faith need the crutches of insults? Sir, you are forever vigilant as to what your child might read/watch/hear on the internet, in a mall, on the tv. But we apply no filter in preaching hatred. I have heard arguments that our children need to know the history. And my answer to that is with the same analogy of what you allow your child to be exposed to on the media. A child will learn history, will learn of your viewpoint/stand and will learn of the hurt it has caused to his/her community. But when he learns that, how he learns that dictate whether he develops hate along with that lesson. Unless the motive of that lesson is to teach hate too. Then I'm fighting a lost battle. A brother here said that I might show my true colours after a bit of prodding. Isn't it sad that he feels the need to prod? I have searched for a forum to discuss how I'm feeling about our children and their future. And he could only see a snake behind kind words. I don't consider Guru Nanak Dev Ji as hindu. I don't consider Sikhs as Hindus. I don't consider Buddhist as Hindus. And even if I do or anyone does, does that falter your faith? And then because you deride other sikhs you can do the same for Hindus? And if I take a stand, as many (most?) Hindu, that Sikhs are Hindus, then does it give me a right to deride Sikhs? No one in their right minds would call a wrong right. No one human would call 84 riots anything but a heartbreaking and abhorrent tragedy. Sir, I filter violent/sexual/age-inappropriate content for my kids, same as you do/will do or would have done. But when I was sitting in the gurudwara and on both sides of Guru Granth Sahibji the images/videos of Sikhs been beaten and burning bodies were being played as a backdrop to an 8 year old's speech that Hindus did it, I couldn't filter it for my 6 year old. My children would learn about this tragedy themselves. And children when reading about 84 riots will also come across numerous articles about Hindus being segregated and killed during terrorism, whether you and I believe it to be true or not. But what I'll ensure is that they have the mental acuity to understand the nature of a man before they are exposed to such sufferings . And then when they'll approach me to ask whether it's true or not, I'll answer that it hurt deep. Hurt millions. Inflicted millions. Wounded milions. Such is what a man is capable of. Not Hindu or a Sikh but a man. And that the lesson is to not hurt and when you know someone is hurt, you be that extra compassionate. Same as you. Koi bhi anjane mein hui galti ke liye maafi maangta hun.

I never said that dogma gives way to freedom, instead I believe dogma and more importantly religion require restraint. Seva is also every Sikh's duty, therefore a principle and dogma of Sikhi. But the Guru's have told us the answers, the truths in a way. They have enabled us to do certain things, and restricted other things through their bani. So I fail to see how is Sikhi not dogmatic. Casteism, idolatry and such are things that have been accepted as false in our religion, and we do not accept as truths. Bani states there is a creator, Waheguru and therefore it is an accepted truth in Sikhi. We as human beings can challenge the existence of a creator, but as Sikhs we cannot, because it has already been accepted by our religion. Also, how does accepting certain truths inhibit us from learning further, learning is not only gaining new knowledge of whether something is a truth or not, but also applying that knowledge in our day-to-day lives. I would say that Sikhi is perhaps the closest to the Abrahamic religions out of the Dharmic religion group, as we have a fixed set of principles that are incontrovertible truths, just like Abrahamic religions.

Brother, I fail to understand the freedom you talk about. Let me take an example of yours, you said that Khalsa Aid was the kind of parchaar that we needed. I researched into them, and I agreed. I agreed because they put "seva" into practice, and not just preached about it. They became examples of Sikhi in practice. However, the concept of seva is a defined principle in Sikhi: ਸੇਵਾ ਕਰਤ ਹੋਇ ਨਿਹਕਾਮੀ ॥ ਤਿਸ ਕਉ ਹੋਤ ਪਰਾਪਤਿ ਸੁਆਮੀ So, in a way, Khalsa Aid is essentially adhering to the dogma of Sikhi established by the Gurus, and thus Khalsa Aid is dogmatic as well. So when you say total freedom unbridled by dogma, what do you really mean? Please, can youelaborate more, because I have failed to understand what freedom you are talking about.

This dude isn't the brightest star in the cosmos is he?

Punjabi Hindus betrayed Punjab when they voted for Hindi language even 100% of their life in home and outside they only spoke Punjabi. This is one reason why Punjab got betrayed by these backstabers (of course those who voted for Hindi).

I don't think you have to do that. I think he meant if someone doesn't have an account, he can post in the Gupt section. In any case, if you post in the Gupt section, you're likely to get lower-quality responses, because people post as Guest accounts, and are neither responsible for what they write, nor can they receive notifications which allow for a better conversation flow. So I would say, just post in the normal sections. and ask where it is written in gurbani that human can not be a guru ? Well, on the ਗੁਰੁ ਬਾਣੀ ਕਹੈ tuk, is the English translation what your dehdhari-following friends tell you or your own translation? Also, are your dehdhari friends Punjabi-speaking? If so, they should know that ਪਰਤਖਿ does NOT mean "in person". "In person" in Punjabi would be something like ਸ਼ਾਖਸਾਤ. ਪਰਤਖਿ , on the other hand, means "clearly", "not hidden". The literal meaning, according to Mahan Kosh, is "before your eyes": ਸੰ. ਪ੍ਰਤ੍ਯਕ੍ਸ਼੍. ਪ੍ਰਤਿ- ਅਕ੍ਸ਼੍ ਵਿ- ਅੱਖ ਦੇ ਸਾਮ੍ਹਣੇ. ਜਾਹਿਰ. "ਪਰਤਖਿ ਦੇਹ ਪਾਰ ਬ੍ਰਹਮ ਸੁਆਮੀ." (ਸਵੈਯੇ ਮਃ ੪. ਕੇ) "ਪਰਤਛਿ ਰਿਦੈ ਗੁਰੁ ਅਰਜਨ ਕੈ ਹਰਿ ਪੂਰਨ ਬ੍ਰਹਮ." (ਸਵੈਯੇ ਮਃ ੫. ਕੇ) "ਗੁਰੁ ਅਰਜਨ ਪਰਤਖ੍ਯ ਹਰਿ." (ਸਵੈਯੇ ਮਃ ੫. ਕੇ)

Why, bro? A question on Gurbani meanings is not some embarrassing personal problem where you have to keep your identity secret.

Thanks Dear sir next time ill post any question regarding gurbani to GUPT Section, Now I know these Gurbani tuks ਬਾਣੀ ਗੁਰੂ ਗੁਰੂ ਹੈ ਬਾਣੀ ਵਿਚਿ ਬਾਣੀ ਅੰਮ੍ਰਿਤੁ ਸਾਰੇ ॥ I always put this to my all brothers who believes in dehdari, after that they replied me with this complete TUK given below. and ask where it is written in gurbani that human can not be a guru ?

Why were you feeling that way?

Someone made my day by posting this today... New York is 3 hours ahead of California, but it does not make California slow. Someone graduated at the age of 22, but waited 5 years before securing a good job! Someone became a CEO at 25, and died at 50. While another became a CEO at 50, and lived to 90 years. Someone is still single, while someone else got married. Obama retires at 55, but Trump starts at 70. Absolutely everyone in this world works based on their Time Zone. People around you might seem to go ahead of you, some might seem to be behind you. But everyone is running their own RACE, in their own TIME. Don’t envy them or mock them. They are in their TIME ZONE, and you are in yours! Life is about waiting for the right moment to act. So, RELAX. You’re not LATE. You’re not EARLY. You are very much ON TIME, and in your TIME ZONE Destiny set up for you. In conclusion don't rush to get, and don't be sad . Make today your day!!

LIFE DOES NOT ALLOW FOR US TO GO BACK AND FIX WHAT WE HAVE DONE WRONG IN THE PAST BUT IT DOES ALLOW US TO LIVE EACH DAY BETTER THAN OUR LAST. WORRY IS THE ADVANCED PRICE YOU PAY FOR TROUBLES THAT MAY NEVER COME LIFE AND TIME ARE WORLD´S TWO TEACHERS. LIFE TEACHES US TO MAKE GOOD USE OF TIME AND TIME TEACHES US THE VALUE OF TIME