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Here is the small attempt to compile all the sikh mantra's and their deep spiritual meaning: Bij Mantar Ikongkar- One universal awareness being(JOT) all in one, one in all -which is nirlaip (de-attached free from all, infused in all), unchanged thoughtless awareness being expressing in its movement - creating, preserving and changing creation spontaneously. -------------- Maha Mantra: IkOngkar Satnaam Kartapurkh Nirbhauo Nirvair Akaal Murat Ajoni Sahibhang Gurparsad Ikongkar- One universal awareness being(JOT) all in one, one in all -which is nirlaip (de-attached free from all, infused in all), unchanged thoughtless awareness being expressing in its movement - creating, preserving and changing creation spontaneously. which is Satnaam- Eternal Absolute existence truth which is never changing. Kartapurkh- Creative consciousness Nirbhauo- Pure love compassion/No fear Nirvair- No enimty towards anyone Akaal Morat- Timeless being. Ajooni- No birth or death Saihbhang- Self-illuminating Gurparsad- Pure Awareness Bliss. Gurparsad- Realized by grace of Guru (sargun) / all prevading (one in all, all in one) one universal awareness being (ikongkar) within ----------- Mool Mantra IkOngkar Satnaam Kartapurkh Nirbhauo Nirvair Akaal Murat Ajoni Sahibhang Gurparsad || Jaap || Aad Sach Jugad Sach Hai Bhi Sach Nanak Hosi Bhi Sach || Ikongkar- One universal awareness being(JOT) all in one, one in all -which is nirlaip (de-attached free from all, infused in all), unchanged thoughtless awareness being expressing in its movement - creating, preserving and changing creation spontaneously.. which is Satnaam- Eternal Absolute existence truth which is never changing. Kartapurkh- Creative consciousness Nirbhauo- Pure love compassion/No fear Nirvair- No enimty towards anyone Akaal Morat- Timeless being. Ajooni- No birth or death Saihbhang- Self-illuminating Gurparsad- Pure Awareness Bliss. Gurparsad- Realized by grace of Guru (sargun) / all prevading (one in all, all in one) one universal awareness being (ikongkar) within Jaap- Meditate on above mantra which is Aaad Sach- Primal Truth Jugad Sach- Truth of all ages Hai Bhi Sach- Truth ever present now Nanak Hosi bhi sach - Nanak says, truth always been there. ----------------------------- Mahavak Mantra: Ikongkar Satgurparsad: Ikongkar- One universal awareness being(JOT) all in one, one in all -which is nirlaip (de-attached free from all, infused in all), unchanged thoughtless awareness being expressing in its movement - creating, preserving and changing creation spontaneously. Satgurparsad: Sat (Eternal Truth) Gur- Awareness Parsad- Bliss Ikongkar Satgurpsad- One universal awareness which is always Eternal Truth Awareness Bliss realized by grace of SatGuru Nanak (sargun) / all prevading (one in all, all in one) one universal awareness being (ikongkar) within Page- 955 pdf of japji sahib by sant gyani gurbachan singh bhindranwale ---------------------------------------------- Gur Mantra VahiGuro Vahi- Wow, blissful ecstasy, Guru- Pure light awareness. It's expression of absolute divine. Vahi- Intoxicated Guru- Awareness - Intoxicated Awareness. Vahi- Wonderful Guru- Awareness/Consciousness. Va- Vypak, Ha- Pargat, Gu- Bhram Ru- Chaitan- Nirvakalp Vahiguru- Spiritual meaning- Va- Vypak (Everywhere), Hi- Pargat(Appearance), Gu- Bhram (Paratma-Bhram) Ru- Chaitan (Supreme Consciouness) - Sant Baba Gurbachan Singh Ji Bhindranwale. ~ Paratma supreme consciousness which exist everywhere which is pargat. ~ ---------------------------------------------------------------------------------

New South Wales, not Australia. In other states, you can still wear a kirpan to school, just not nsw where it happen.

by one of the thakts lol

Maybe we should get some written documentation of an exemption or something

yeeah and baba mohan is more infamous for the "baba mohan valian pothian" (sometimes called goindvaal wali pothi") sakhi where he refused to give up the historic pothi during sewa of adi granth prakash was going on under agvaahi of guru arjan dev sahib paatshah

Yea that's what I've learned as well

The sikh kid stabbed the other kid after multiple incidents of bullying. Then that kid removed the sikh kid's dastar so he got stabbed. The injuries were minor. It would have been better if the kid had not taken the kirpan out and used something else instead.

So why is Laughter good for your health ? Laughter makes you feel good. And the good feeling that you get when you laugh remains with you even after the laughter subsides. Humor helps you keep a positive, optimistic outlook through difficult situations, disappointments, and loss. In fact laughter is so powerfull it has helped people in life threatening situations back to health. Humor changes behavior - when we experience humor we talk more, make more eye contact with others, touch others, etc. Humor increases your get-up-and-go, and with increased vigor we perform activities that we might otherwise avoid. The lack of humor in your life increases distress. so lighten up, count your blessings. Write down all the things you are grateful for. You will be surprised how much it distances you from negative thoughts. Negative thoughts are a roadblock to humor and laughter. and when in a state of unhappiness, we have further to journey to become filled with humor and laughter. Laughter heals the body and mind, laughs and smiles are enjoyed best when shared with others. Laughter encourages better communication. Laughter charges our immune system in which in turn helps us resist disease. The benefits of laughter Laughter relaxes the whole body. A good, hearty laugh relieves physical tension and stress, leaving your muscles relaxed for up to 45 minutes after. Laughter boosts the immune system. Laughter decreases stress hormones and increases immune cells and infection-fighting antibodies, thus improving your resistance to disease. Laughter triggers the release of endorphins, the body's natural feel-good chemicals. Endorphins promote an overall sense of well-being and can even temporarily relieve pain. Laughter protects the heart. Laughter improves the function of blood vessels and increases blood flow, which can help protect you against a heart attack and other cardiovascular problems. Physical Benefits Boosts immunity Lowers stress hormones Decreases pain Relaxes your muscles Prevents heart disease Mental Benefits Adds joy and zest to life Eases anxiety and fear Relieves stress Improves mood Enhances resilience Social Benefits Strengthens relationships Attracts others to us Enhances teamwork Helps defuse conflict Promotes group bonding Humourous Facts. "Did you know that by having a deep down belly laugh you are giving your body an internal aerobics workout"

Erudite scholars of the Dasam Granth, and Sri Sarbloh Granth, have concluded that Kali plays an important role in both scriptures. She is a metaphor for associating femininity with the Akal. In this article I hope to highlight the societal, and familial factors which convinced Guru Gobind Singh Ji to utilise Kali in his works. The Dasam Granth residences a plethora of mystical-cum-spiritual metaphors which are fecund spectres of an ubiquitous vision. One such spectre is that of Kali, the dark Goddess. Evolving from a primeval genesis, Kali is presently a household deity amongst the sub-continent's denizens. Possessing a bloody historicity, to rival that of the Mexica pantheon, Kali for the Khalsa is not a reverential deity but a figurative utility for it's femininity. The often bloody historicity of the Khalsa has marginalized it's feminism, in pursuit of a more hyper-masculine monomania. Despite it's Gurus' emphasis on gender equivocalism, the latter principle is found ardently lacking in practice. Even today the pseudo-inter religious governing body, the SGPC, veto's women from performing Kirtan in the cardinal Darbar Sahib. A similar strain is also visible in the collective Sikh psyche of today. Despite acknowledging the existence of a formless God in their ethos, they will still opt for a more patricentric God in an emulation of Semitism. Ironically this is a notion which directly contradicts the feminism invoked in the Dasam Granth. To understand why the Dasam Granth utilises Kali, to showcase femininity, one has to understand the historic milieu orbiting it's creation. Authored by Akali-Nihung Guru Gobind Singh Ji, it was written at a time when the societal segregation of Hinduism was at it's peak, and subsequent Islamic invasions had divided sub-continental society in believer and non-believe. The elite strata, of Hinduism, had escaped the greater Islamic penchant for persecution via allying themselves with the Mughal dynasty. Approving the latter course, the Mughal nucleus had readily allowed the latter a constrained practice of their faith. Summarily the nadir strata of Hinduism now faced two dangers. The orthodox hegemony lead by the fanatical Brahmins, or religious clerics, and the whims of Islamic radicals. Simultaneously the Brahmins restrained the performance and observance of religiosity to themselves and their male hierarchy, whilst forbidding women and the servile classes from emulating them. In the periods which followed the servile classes, and women, were slowly deprived of their deities, until penultimately Kali was left. Kali herself was perceived as being an ostracised deity by the Brahmins. Born during a mythical era of warfare, her figurative symbolism had been lost through the ages until ultimately her figure was defined in numerous modes. For the ostracised layers of Hinduism she represented a sporadic escape, an hearkening to an era where she would manifest and slaughter the malesh (filth) plaguing them. Her persona spoke volumes to the Guru who not only wanted to parent a distinct socio-religious parcel but also uplift the proletariat regardless of the latter's allegiances, associations and beliefs. Decrying her worship, he nonetheless adopted her as a clandestine metaphor for his literary works. Kali's spectral prowess over death was employed by him to depict the maternal aspect of the Akal, or the deathless entity. Simultaneously her ability to consume time was another element which he favoured and aligned with the Akal who fluidly exists over time and it's offshoots. Other factors, which were pivotal, in the Guru's adoption of Kali are found in his own life and hierarchy. Wendy Doniger argues that 'other people's myths' assist one in bettering one's own persona and traits. These 'other myths' provide an anti-inertial, and diverse, balance in one's understanding of one's own life and environment. The Khalsa Gurus' resided during a time when the folklore of Hinduism was a sub-continental phenomena, thus to assist their apostles in understanding their own unique dictums they employed well-recognised and known figures to assist them. His predecessor's anti-inertial devices were not lost on the Guru, who also forwarded the latter tradition. Secondly, despite his masculine attributes and generalship he was also close to feminism himself. His father had been executed by the fanatical Aurangzeb, and he had been left in the care of a mother who had acted as a decisive vizier for him in his early years. His own grandfather, Guru Hargobind Sahib Ji, had also deputed his wife and mother as his regents when he himself was imprisoned by the Mughals. Thus his family had seen a balance between male and female paradigms, a course not lost on him. Thirdly he employed a sublime figure. Kali is not overly beauteous, but nor was her role as an embodiment of warfare. Acknowledging this reality, the Guru added her to his own growing repertoire of literal arsenals. Fourthly Kali, for the Guru, became a stereotypical element of his own war against the contemporaneous polity. The dark, almost devilish, goddess wars against injustice in order to liberate her pantheist brethren. Simultaneously the Guru also uplifted the servile out castes of his milieu and armed them to fight the tyranny inflicted upon them. In Kali he found a kindred spirit and acknowledged this element in his writings. Fourthly the Guru gifted a parental Kali to the embryonic Khalsa. For him the purity of a female was beyond doubt, and the Khalsa too would have to imbue the same spirit in order to wage it's perpetual war against abibek. Conclusively, for the Guru, Kali became an integrative element of his revitalising of society. The fact that he could envision a female wielding a sword depicts the importance of both masculinity and femininity in human society. In the post-Guru era, Khalsa women would foster a strong tradition of warrior-dom and leadership. Mata Bhag Kaur, the Guru-mother's Mata Sahib Kaur and Sundar Kaur, Sada Kaur, Rani Jind Kaur are only few of the names which come to mind when acknowledging the matriarchal aspect of Khalsa historicity. Thus one cane easily summarise that for the Guru, Kali was a multi-faceted deity which he employed for anti-inertial and figurative upliftment. http://tisarpanth.blogspot.co.nz/2014/05/why-kali.html?view=magazine

Schools can't force any one type of prayer. In the united states for example we respect all relgions supposedly. Nobody complains it says In God We Trust on the money when they spend it. God is written into our founding documents. A period could be held every morning still where students are invited to pray, meditate, or remain quiet and focus. It's supposed to be all religions equal not no religion. The military provides services for a variety of religions with different chaplains. You can go to your group or you can go learn about someone elses. There's no reason federal schools can't do the same as federal armed forces. To remove God from all things is enforced Atheism. Which is not constitutional or in spirit with the founding documents of this country.

Everyones moral compass is different, and everyones moral priorities are different. Kindness, forgiveness, and all that is good but the eradication of discrimination and tyranny would be more important (although one can argue the former qualities are integral to achieving these, but more people would agree that killing someone is far bigger moral issue than having to greet your neighbor everyday) These things are up to the individual, you get what I mean

https://www.sikhawareness.com/topic/14822-debunking-sri-gur-katha/

https://www.patreon.com/posts/43263260 - Review of Granth

But schools cannot administrate any of that unless you want to send your kids to a certain school It begins in the family Do what you want with your kids regarding their education (home school, sikh institution, etc.) But dont expect the public education system to implement a curriculum to accommodate any specific community, you get what I mean?

My mother was alive to see prayer removed from schools. She said she could see a difference in people almost immediately. When I was really young she told me sometimes you see a religous person, and you think... they're not the best person...she told me religion was probably the only thing keeping them good at all and an atheist is the same quality of person just with nothing to keep them good.

I agree. It seems like the school is not focusing on the bullying at all and this is 1 case that is setting the standard for all Amritdhari/Shastrdhari Sikhs

Looks like it. ... Shouldn't he be able to manifest more than one of those adonus like bodies then. ...

Nice summary

During Maharaja Ranjit Singh's time, there was a Halemi Raj and death penalty was never used...

Better is subjective.

honestly I sympathize with some of the regulators in that any domestic terrorist can simply grow a beard and tie a turban they should also require people claiming to be amritdhari to read panj bania or something like that if the sikh is strict about kirpan rehit, should be strict on nitnem as well so it makes sense lol

Humans are more vegetarian than carnivorous as we have teeth suited for vegetables

What is stopping other countries looking at this incident and wanting to ban kirpan as well? How can we prevent it from being banned?

How do you know this ?

I have responded to the views and arguments expressed by Bhai Ranjit Singh Ji in the above video. I apologize for the length. Maryada Guru Gobind Singh Ji made one maryada Correct, he gave the Khalsa one maryada How do we as Sikhs determine what that maryada is? The first step is to compile and analyze all historical documents and literature that shed light on the Khalsa's maryada at the time of Guru Gobind Singh Ji and the early 18th century. Bhai Ranjit Singh Ji has not presented any historical research or analysis to prove what was the original Khalsa maryada If people take Amrit at different places, can their views ever be the same? They can be the same and are the same for a vast majority of topics. Udasis, Nirmale, Taksaal/Giani, Nihang Singhs all have maryadas that differ, however all of these sampardas agree on the foundational principles and values of Sikhi. The areas they have differing views on (meat, length of mool mantar, keski as a kakaar) are all smaller details and subsidiary aspects of maryada. The sampardas agree on the core of how to understand, practice, and experience Sikhi. Sampardas/Babas claim their maryada is supreme I have never heard any Samparda/Baba make the claim that their maryada is above all others. Bhai Ranjit Singh Ji must provide evidence of showing that a specific Samparda/Baba has claimed this Sampardas may voice the merits of their maryada, that it is based on historical rehitnamas or has been in place and untouched for hundreds of years, but that does not mean that they come from an egotistical position of "holier-than-thou" as Bhai Ranjit Singh Ji is trying to paint their position as Babas put their own views into maryada and spread it using Amrit/Panj Pyare. They do this in order to build a unique identity, to avoid making one Panthic maryada, and get "Star Baba" treatment Bhai Ranjit Singh Ji is relying solely on his perception to reach the conclusion that what Sampardas/Babas are doing is undoubtedly with nefarious intentions Bhai Ranjit Singh Ji may be using a logical fallacy here related to apophenia (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Apophenia). Specifically, he is connecting patterns of behaviour (Sampardas/Babas preaching their maryada) with meaning and intention (doing it for selfish reasons + to divide the Panth) without providing any evidence to prove that supposed intention In order to make this claim, Bhai Ranjit Singh Ji must have evidence that can prove the intention, motives, and mental thoughts the Samparda/Babas he is pointing to Without providing any evidence, Bhai Ranjit Singh Ji has created a toxic narrative about Sampardas/Babas which then will transplant into the minds of his followers/listeners fermenting further disdain for fellow Sikhs Bhai Ranjit Singh Ji believes everyone should conform to the Akal Thakt Maryada because he believes it is the closest to Gurmat Is the Akal Thakt maryada the one that was given to the Khalsa by Guru Gobind Singh Ji? Obviously not. So then why is this maryada considered the most accurate one by Bhai Ranjit Singh Ji? He offers no historical historical research or written sources to prove that this maryada is most in line with the maryada Guru Gobind Singh Ji gave us Bhai Ranjit Singh Ji, and the missionary parchariks at large, are interpreting Sikhi using western philosophy (logic/science). This results in a distorted, warped, and inaccurate understanding of Gurmat. Thus, we cannot believe his assertions of a particular maryada being in line or out of line with Gurmat because his understanding of Gurmat is, at its core, flawed Background on Akal Thakt Maryada Sources: The Sikh Reht Maryada, The 50 Year History of the SGPC by Shamsher Singh Ashok Is this maryada Panth Parvanit? Has it been passed and approved by the Panth? Or the Akal Thakt? The answer, which may surprise many, is NO. The SGPC created a committee in 1927 to create a Sikh Rehit Maryada The 29 original members of this committee included: Sant Sundar Singh Ji of Damdami Taksal, Akali Kaur Singh of the Nihangs, Sant Sangat Singh Ji of the Sevapanthis, Bhai Kahan Singh Ji Nabha, Sant Gulab Singh Ji Gholia, Bhai Vir Singh Ji, Sant Man Singh Ji Khankhal of the Nirmale, Bhai Randhir Singh Ji of the Akhand Kirtani Jatha + more 11 of these original members, including representatives from Taksal, AKJ, Nirmale, and Sevapanthis, as well as, Bhai Vir Singh Ji and Prof. Jodh Singh Ji, were never present at the deliberations that took place Over the years additional comments and opinions were incorporated from dozens of other Sikhs, but whole sections of the Panth still were not part of the deliberations Committees were constituted over the years and discussions/debates took place in 1927, 1931, 1932, 1933, The 1933 deliberations were at an impasse and they were put on hold for a undetermined amount of time. These were the last deliberations In 1936, without any further deliberations taking place to get full consensus and approval from the Panth, it was passed by the SGPC The current version you see today is everything the Panth could agree upon as being the "at minimum" maryada. They still were deliberating on other details and aspects where they couldn't build consensus. At no point was this maryada passed by the representatives of the Panth to be the governing maryada for all Sikhs. It was still a work-in-process document As pointed out earlier, sections of the Panth did not even have the chance to take part in the deliberations, therefor the resulting document is still incomplete in that respect too Bhai Ranjit Singh Ji believes the Akal Thakt Maryada is supreme and "is the best one to make us one" He wants everyone to conform to the Akal Thakt Maryada as a prerequisite for Panthic unity, yet this is a maryada that is incomplete and left halfway through deliberations Bhai Ranjit Singh Ji views other maryadas as "going backwards" He has already decided that other maryadas from different Sampardas are nonsense He wants all Sikhs to conform to the Akal Thakt maryada first, and then make any changes This is illogical. Why not deliberate and agree on a maryada first before making it applicable to the whole Panth? It seems he wants one Panthic maryada but only on his terms. Not with the samvaadh and consensus of the entire Panth. He is unwilling to consider the merits of other Sikhs' views and any historical/philosophical evidence they might present Bhai Ranjit Singh Ji says "Babas divided the maryada" How can Babas have divided the maryada if there was never one singular maryada to begin with? Before the 1936 SGPC passed maryada, there were already numerous versions being followed Rather, one singular maryada has never been constituted and passed by the entire Panth Bhai Ranjit Singh Ji makes numerous claims of "you believe in x, y, z" which is against Gurmat Instead of addressing the individual person who may have said what he finds frivolous, he paints all those who disagree with his viewpoints with the same brush He generalizes here to depict all those who don't agree with him to be nonsensical. He does not distinguish. This creates animosity in his followers/listeners for everyone who disagrees with him Bhai Ranjit Singh Ji says "I say what seems right to me" He shouldn't say what seems right to him. He should say what is right according to the Guru If others in the Khalsa Panth think the viewpoint and philosophy he is using to determine "what is right" is incorrect and flawed, he should want to genuinely hear out critiques, not dismiss them The excuse that all those who don't agree with him are violent is a farce. There are plenty he could have a genuine conversation with History Bhai Ranjit Singh Ji says "he only accepts history that is correct" He brings forth no historical evidence, new research, documentation, or archaeological discoveries to disprove accounts in Suraj Parkash He does not even mention that Suraj Parkash is an unedited Granth and the Brahmin assistants of Kavi Bhai Santokh Singh Ji inserted their own writings into his work He either does not know the history behind Suraj Parkash or is purposely withholding these facts from his followers/listeners The tall tales the Bhai Ranjit Singh Ji is referencing in Suraj Parkash is not accepted BY ANYONE in the Panth. However, Bhai Ranjit Singh Ji seems to be implying that the Samparda parchariks do believe in those tall tales Can Bhai Ranjit Singh Ji provide a single example when anyone has done Katha of those sections in Suraj Parkash? These parts are entirely omitted from katha or an explanation of the inaccuracies are given. He is using this point to show other parchariks in a negative light by implying they believe and do katha of these tall tales If Bhai Ranjit Singh Ji thinks something in our history is false, he must prove his case. It is foolish to state you think something is wrong but not show your opinion is based on evidence To disprove those written accounts one must: Do their own historical research, find additional written sources, do archaeological studies, that result in differing evidence Bhai Vir Singh Ji did that in his Suraj Parkash Steek There are inaccuracies in Suraj Parkash due to: 1. Incomplete information compiled by Bhai Santokh Singh Ji 2. Tampering and alteration of his work by his Brahmin assistants  Bhai Vir Singh Ji brings forth additional evidence through his own historical research to show that some things in the Granth are inaccurate. Bhai Ranjit Singh Ji says "they already killed one of our guys" He's implying with "they", that everyone who disagrees with him or find inaccuracies in his views are of the same group of people who tried to kill him Card Stacking Card stacking is a method of argumentation in which important counter-arguments are purposefully omitted, creating an imbalance of evidence in an effort to bias the argument This is a logical fallacy that Bhai Ranjit Singh Ji seems to make use of over and over in his arguments. I don't know if its intentional or unintentional but it misleads people and is a deceitful tactic

He actually wears ghagri. I don’t see any normal rehatvaan Sikh wearing such clothing. Due to his fashion taste people call him ghagri wala baba. Just telling of what I hear from folks.

Bhai Ranjit Singh Ji and the missionaries are very evasive to having any discussion. Whenever someone has gotten a chance to sit with them and pose some questions to them they become combative, begin leveling allegations at others, finger pointing, speak over the questioner, stray away from the question, and ultimately don't address any question/point being raised. Here is one such example involving Sarabjit Singh Ji Dundha not addressing the questions raised to him and avoiding giving a straight answer: Try your best to keep emotions out of it. I can relate to your feelings of exasperation and frustration. In those cases, just put up all the arguments, evidence, and facts you have. If the person genuinely is considering the points you raise, continue having that conversation. When they aren't genuinely trying to engage with you, end the discussion and don't waste any further time. But leave all your arguments and ideas for others to see, hear, read, etc. wherever you're having the conversation. At least that's what my short experience tells me is best to do.

I agree with that. The problem is that Dhadrianwale and crew have refused to debate/discuss. There were big Dasam Granth Samagams where they were invited, they failed to show up. I agree that you have to be constructive. I disagree with some Singhs all out condemning Dhadrianwale and then call for his assassination. I'm usually constructive, though I admit I've been a bit testy with Mahadulai. (I'm not the only one. Even Harsharan000, probably the most mellow poster on this whole board, became exasperated with him. For the rare case, I think you have to take an aggressive approach, just to shock the other person into clarifying his thoughts.

I appreciate it! But one thing I really believe is that when we have differences in opinion or we think people in our Panth are heading down the wrong track, we must do our best to try and have a constructive conversation with them. It shouldn't be an adversarial or hostile exchange. When you antagonize someone who opposes you via name calling, snide comments, or projecting them in a negative light, they just dig in and become more entrenched in their views. That neither helps you in trying to introduce them to different ideas or convince them that their current opinions may be wrong. It pumps our ego when we 'stick it' to someone but it changes nothing. Opinions just become more polarized. People need to try and more plainly state their views, provide arguments, reference evidence, and let others engage with your ideas. I find it's the only way to really get through to others. There are scholars in our Panth that would be more than capable to have such discussions on all these philisophical/historical debates, but I find Bhai Ranjit Singh Ji and the missionaries are very evasive when it comes to sitting down for a discussion. Imagine a 1-2 hour discussion on a single topic Two sides can make their opening statements about what they're views are on the topic Each side is then capped to 10-15 minute periods to make their arguments and respond to the opposing side A neutral person can moderate, to keep everyone on time and force everyone to address and respond to the arguments raised by either side Debaters would be kept accountable. They'd have to respond to every point raised Viewers would be able to easily see who's arguments are backed up with facts and evidence Such a discussion would actually be fruitful to dispelling peoples' misinformed views

Singhballer, you are so on point with your posts in this thread. Highly detailed, they strike at the very heart of the so-called "rationalist" Sikhs, who, in the end, really don't even believe in the very existence of God, which, after all, is a superstition, according to the rationalist mode of thought. Fans of Dhadrianwale have been left flailing and mouthing generalities. Kudos.

No worries. Listening yes, no reading/santhiya. In particular, the end of the Suraj Parkash, Guru Gobind Singh Ji's and Baba Banda Singh Ji Bahadur's history is what I have the most recollection of.

Lol, that's the thing, all these followers of Dhadrianwale (including the NKJ crew) have to decide whether they follow the mat (philosophy) previously preached by Dhadrianwale, or they just follow Dhadrianwale, no matter what he says. If they choose to follow Dhadrianwale off a cliff, they then become bande de bande (slave of a man) instead of slave of God. ਸਤਿਗੁਰ ਸਾਹਿਬੁ ਛਡਿ ਕੈ ਮਨਮੁਖ ਹੋਇ ਬੰਦੇ ਦਾ ਬੰਦਾ। Satigur Saahibu Chhadi Kai Manamukhu Hoi Banday Daa Bandaa | Manmukh, the mind-orientated, leaving away the true Guru Lord becomes slave of man. ਵਾਰਾਂ ਭਾਈ ਗੁਰਦਾਸ : ਵਾਰ ੧੫ ਪਉੜੀ ੪ ਪੰ. ੧

Kavi Bhai Santokh Singh Ji, was a poet indeed, but beyond that he was an immense vidhvaan of the Panth. He was a great scholar and theologian too, as is exemplified by his Japji Sahib translation in his Garab Ganjani Teeka. I would say Bhai Santokh Singh Ji also fits the mold of an historian. It was immense work and research he did compiling historical literature/records, recording oral accounts, visiting historical sites, and then analyzing all the information, scrutinizing it for accuracy, and compiling it all into the poetic masterpiece that is Suraj Parkash. He may even be the Panth's foremost historian!

https://youtu.be/e-ZWeWAgr7U

The main fault that Sikhs find with Bhai Ranjit Singh Ji's parchaar, I think, is the following: He is redefining Sikhi, Gurbani, our history, our traditions, our culture, our literature, by using western philosophy (logic, science, etc.), that too with an incomplete comprehension of it Specifically, he is interpreting Sikhi through a lens that is not Gurmat, but a foreign philosophy. Thus it leads to: His interpretations causing him to change core principles and values of Sikhi His distorted understanding of Sikhi leads him to renounce and discard Panth-approved Sikh history Is it wrong to "call out" history/sakhian? In short, no. But to disprove accepted history, you have to have evidence the written history is factually incorrect, that the Poet's research was flawed, or that the written history is philosophically incorrect, that it is plainly against Sikh values and principles. Our written history is compiled in many granths (Suraj Parkash, Panth Parkash, Gurbilas Patshaahi 6, etc.), and each written by different poets (Bhai Santokh Singh, Bhai Rattan Singh Bhangoo, etc.) To disprove those written accounts one must: Do their own historical research, find additional written sources, do archaeological studies, that result in differing evidence Bhai Vir Singh Ji did that in his Suraj Parkash Steek There are inaccuracies in Suraj Parkash due to: 1. Incomplete information compiled by Bhai Santokh Singh Ji 2. Tampering and alteration of his work by his Brahmin assistants Bhai Vir Singh Ji brings forth additional evidence through his own historical research to show that some things in the Granth are inaccurate. For example, some of the battles of Baba Banda Singh Ji Bahadur are stated to have taken place in the wrong villages I don't believe Bhai Ranjit Singh Ji has done any santhiyaa/adhyaain of any of those historical granths. You may notice he doesn't present any new historical or archaeological evidence when denouncing historical accounts. To prove them to be inauthentic it requires immense work and research, which he is not doing. Everyone is entitled to their own interpretation of Sikhi/Gurbani, but for it to be accepted in the Panth's court, it has to be rooted in the Guru's Mat. As I said in my original post, even the RSS has their own interpretation of Sikhi and the Khalsa (as the military wing of Hindus created to protect Hindustan). But their interpretation comes from the viewpoint of Hindu philosophy In the same way Bhai Ranjit Singh Ji, and the missionary parchariks at large, are interpreting Sikhi using western philosophy (logic/science). This results in a distorted and skewed understanding of Sikhi that is incorrect. The Panth largely agreed on a vast majority of Sikhi values, principles, and history. Its okay to challenge these if done with sound evidence and relying on Gurmat, and not a foreign philosophy. Sikhs are upset with Bhai Ranjit Singh Ji because his challenges are not evidence based and are rooted in non-Sikh philosophies. There have been differing interpretations of Sikhi/Gurbani for hundreds of years. But you will notice the differences of the interpretations are not that large. All the different Viakhiya or interpretations by the Udasis, Nirmale, Gianis/Taksaal, and Nihang Singhs are within the same spectrum of thought. Bhai Ranjit Singh Ji and the missionaries are creating a completely new off-shoot and spin-off of interpretation that is not based on the Guru's mat. To understand the different branches of interpretation within Sikhi, how western philosophy found its way into our interpretations, and an analysis of our current state, I HIGHLY RECOMMEND listening to the following video of Sardar Prabhsharandeep Singh. It will be well worth your 40 minutes. Start at 7:51.

The guys a chubby d1ck

Using logic/science as your fundamental tool to understand Sikhi, Gurbani, Gur-ithihaas, or Gurmat is wrong and misguided. Why is it wrong? When someone uses a philosophy, ideology, or doctrine that does not originate from the Guru to try to develop an understanding of Sikhi/Gurbani, the resulting "understanding" of Sikhi they develop will be distorted, warped, and ultimately incorrect If you use any Mat (a philosophy, like Hindu-Mat, Budh-Mat, Marxism, Existentialism, Western Logic, etc.) to understand Sikhi/Gurbani, you use their viewpoint/principles to define and understand Sikhi/Gurbani To truly understand Sikhi/Gurbani, you must use the world view that the Guru has given us. You must take on the nazariya (perspective, viewpoint, frame of reference) of the Guru and use that to learn, understand, and analyze Sikhi What problems occur when you use a Non-Sikh philosophy? Some Hindus including the RSS use their own philosophical principles to define Sikhi They view the Khalsa as being a sena (fighting force) for the protection of Hindus, that Sikhs are merely a military arm to the wider Hindu community They develop this understanding by using THEIR philosophy/ideology as Hindus, to define US as Sikhs Using Western Philosophy/Logic/Science to define Sikhi is wrong in the same way Specific problems with using Logic/Western Philosophy to define Sikhi Not just Sikhi but can any Dharam be truly understood using logic/science? 1.The subject of Sikhi/Dharam and Logic/Science are two separate things Sikhi's subject matter is the invisible, transcendental (spiritual, non-physical) world, Waheguru, the divine, metaphysics, that which you experience internally, beyond the material world. Logic/Science's subject matter is the visible world. The world you can experience through your five senses, that you can count, measure, observe, and analyze. 2. The foundation of Sikhi and Logic/Science are two separate things Sikhi is anchored in Vishwaash, a faith in the Guru that is unwavering. Logic/Science is anchored in Shanka, in questioning. You begin with suspicion, ask why for everything 3. By using Logic/Science as your benchmark to test what ideas you accept/reject, you've consciously or unconsciously accepted that Logic/Science has as a higher importance than Sikhi If you test Sikhi/Gurbani by using Logic/Science, you automatically are accepting that Sikhi/Gurbani is only correct if it is acceptable by the standards of Logic/Science 4. Logic/Science has a negative/dark side to it Logic/Science brought great acceleration in technologies and development. Along with the many benefits, it has also caused damage to society and our world. Proliferation of nuclear weapons that annihilate nature itself, the creation of extremely potent and fatal recreational drugs, the exploitation of natural resources, climate change that will cause havoc all over the world, etc. If Sikhi is compatible with Logic/Science, than just as Logic/Science has a negative/dark side, Sikhi too must have a negative/dark side. But Sikhi does not For more discourse regarding the interpretation of Sikhi/Gurbani and how Western Philosophy/Logic/Science relates to us as Sikhs I recommend listening to Prof. Prabhsharanbir Singh, Prabhsharandeep Singh, and Sardar Ajmer Singh. The following videos cover these topics if anyone would like an in-depth analysis and explanation by some of our leading Sikh thinkers. Many of the above points are derived from these videos.

and he doesn't make money? be real

The Hindus have such a complex about the sikhs they even tried to make their own version of Akal Takht for Hindus , I read the story and just laughed at their pathetic attempts to scrape together some semblence of respect when the world knows it's all based on lies ...

Bro , I wish to be very precise .When we refer to Panch tatt in philosophy , it should not be mixed with the elements as in chemistry . These are five elementry requirements for the making of the Universe , the Brahmand . While the first three Jal - VAayu and Prithvi represent the three states of the matter ( the Gas ,the Liquid & the Solid ) next is Agni , the Energy and finally the Akaash or the Space . these are the Five basic requirements of a living Universe , wherever these five are in unbalanced state , Life does not exist . The sun where Agni is the main element , no life supposedly exists . In far away planets of our solar System Vayu is almost non existant due to low temperature ( little Agni )and Solid Mass (PRithvi ) is the main component , and no life exists . and the space is which encloses all other components. Even the air or vayu needs Space to exist . Where only space exists , need I say any thing ?

Found this beautiful write up on naam on facebook

*** 1984 hukamnama *** For first time ever, maryada was not carried out at Shri Darbar Sahib on June 7, 1984 due to presence of the army. On June 8 1984, prakash was done and in the evening time only rehraas sahib was read and sukhasan was done. On this day, the following hukumnama came from Guru Sahib soriT mhlw 5 Gru 1 iqquky sorat(h) mehalaa 5 ghar 1 thithukae Sorat'h, Fifth Mehla, First House, Ti-Tukay: <> siqgur pRswid ] ik oa(n)kaar sathigur prasaadh || One Universal Creator God. By The Grace Of The True Guru: iks hau jwcI iks AwrwDI jw sBu ko kIqw hosI ] kis ho jaachee kis aaraadhhee jaa sabh ko keethaa hosee || Who should I ask? Who should I worship? All were created by Him. jo jo dIsY vfw vfyrw so so KwkU rlsI ] jo jo dheesai vaddaa vaddaeraa so so khaakoo ralasee || Whoever appears to be the greatest of the great, shall ultimately be mixed with the dust. inrBau inrMkwru Bv KMfnu siB suK nv iniD dysI ]1] nirabho nira(n)kaar bhav kha(n)ddan sabh sukh nav nidhh dhaesee ||1|| The Fearless, Formless Lord, the Destroyer of Fear bestows all comforts, and the nine treasures. ||1|| hir jIau qyrI dwqI rwjw ] har jeeo thaeree dhaathee raajaa || O Dear Lord, Your gifts alone satisfy me. mwxsu bpuVw ikAw swlwhI ikAw iqs kw muhqwjw ] rhwau ] maanas bapurraa kiaa saalaahee kiaa this kaa muhathaajaa || rehaao || Why should I praise the poor helpless man? Why should I feel subservient to him? ||Pause|| ijin hir iDAwieAw sBu ikCu iqs kw iqs kI BUK gvweI ] jin har dhhiaaeiaa sabh kishh this kaa this kee bhookh gavaaee || All things come to one who meditates on the Lord; the Lord satisfies his hunger. AYsw Dnu dIAw suKdwqY inKuit n kb hI jweI ] aisaa dhhan dheeaa sukhadhaathai nikhutt n kab hee jaaee || The Lord, the Giver of peace, bestows such wealth, that it can never be exhausted. Andu BieAw suK shij smwxy siqguir myil imlweI ]2] anadh bhaeiaa sukh sehaj samaanae sathigur mael milaaee ||2|| I am in ecstasy, absorbed in celestial peace; the True Guru has united me in His Union. ||2|| mn nwmu jip nwmu AwrwiD Anidnu nwmu vKwxI ] man naam jap naam aaraadhh anadhin naam vakhaanee || O mind, chant the Naam, the Name of the Lord; worship the Naam, night and day, and recite the Naam. aupdysu suix swD sMqn kw sB cUkI kwix jmwxI ] oupadhaes sun saadhh sa(n)than kaa sabh chookee kaan jamaanee || Listen to the Teachings of the Holy Saints, and all fear of death will be dispelled. ijn kau ik®pwlu hoAw pRBu myrw sy lwgy gur kI bwxI ]3] jin ko kirapaal hoaa prabh maeraa sae laagae gur kee baanee ||3|| Those blessed by God's Grace are attached to the Word of the Guru's Bani. ||3|| kImiq kauxu krY pRB qyrI qU srb jIAw dieAwlw ] keemath koun karai prabh thaeree thoo sarab jeeaa dhaeiaalaa || Who can estimate Your worth, God? You are kind and compassionate to all beings. sBu ikCu kIqw qyrw vrqY ikAw hm bwl gupwlw ] sabh kishh keethaa thaeraa varathai kiaa ham baal gupaalaa || Everything which You do, prevails; I am just a poor child - what can I do? rwiK lyhu nwnku jnu qumrw ijau ipqw pUq ikrpwlw ]4]1] raakh laehu naanak jan thumaraa jio pithaa pooth kirapaalaa ||4||1|| Protect and preserve Your servant Nanak; be kind to him, like a father to his son. ||4||1||

THere are currently two schools of thought on this topic. One is that the Mool Mantar ends at Gurparsad which is accepted by the new schools of thought such as the AKj, 3HO and scholars. The second schools of thought state that the mool mantra ends at Nanak Hosi Bhi Sach, these schools as Nihangs, Nirmalas, Sewapanthis, Udasis, Damdami Taksal Sant Samaj and all mahapursh The mool mantra has numerous meanings, for more details of the meanings please listen to the Jap Ji sahib katha by Giani Thakur Singh or better then that would be reading the steeks of Damdami Taksal and Sato Gali