proactive

If there is anything positive that can come out of this whole dirty business of the SGPC elections it could be that most of the followers of these so-called Mahapurkhs, especially in the West will realise that they are worst than the politicians, So how is that these so-called Brahmgyanis made common cause with Badal?

This is a video of a protest in Pilibhit where the Singhs attacked BJP hoardings as well as cars and buses. They also have the UP police on the run.

Jassa, HSD has already given you half a dozen weapons that were used in the Anglo-Sikhs wars which weren't around at the time of Guru Hargobind. HSD's analysis make a lot of sense and no doubt based on research on the subject whereas with respect to you, your comments speak more of obstinate belief in the superiority of your so-called Dal Panth. Also if you think Santa Singh is a 'panth rattan' then I think we have every right to ask that Lal Singh and Tej Singh also be referred to as 'panth rattans' The modernisation of the army by Maharaja Ranjit Singh was the most important decision that he made, it ensured that the British did not attempt to annex his kingdom during the time that he was alive. Even after the army had become degraded due to the machinations in the court after the death of the Maharaja, the common company sepoy still feared the Khalsa army and was apprehensive of any coming contest. Post 1839 the British lowered their estimation of the abilities of the Khalsa soldier yet after a few years the Khalsa army gave the British the shock of their lives! Do you really believe that an army of similar numbers of Akalis as the Khalsa army would have been able to make a dent on the British army? The strategy of Dhai-phat would never have worked with the British. Their tactics and technology would have overwhelmed the Akalis. After the annexation there were still thousands of Akalis around, then why didn't they launch a guerilla war against the British? If Niddar's fantasy stories are to be believed, they all ran off the South India. This is not to deny the courage and fighting ability of the common Akali, in a one to one contest a Akali would probably have worsted the company sepoy 99% of the time, but as HSD has shown the Anglo-Sikh wars were the first modern war that the Khalsa army had fought. Prior to this they had faced Afghans, Muslim Rajputs, Hindu Hill Rajputs and Gurkhas who still fought the way they had fought for thousands of years. There were positives with the way the Akalis fought in the war. There is an example that Akalis would place razais over themselves just as the sepoys were overwhelming a position, they would then wait for the sepoys to pass and then attack them from the rear! I do share your view that the Khalsa army should have been a purely Sikh army. Provided the enticements were there, there is no doubt that significant numbers of Hindu and Muslim Jats would have taken Amrit, had that been the requirements to join the Khalsa army. The British were able to achieve the same when they started the recruitment into the Sikh regiments.

http://yespunjab.wordpress.com/2011/02/04/sikh-bodies-ask-badal-to-sack-izhar-alam-from-sad/

Avoid them like the plague! They are con men. I was approached by one in the supermarket and he also showed me some ID card and some photos. He said he was collecting for Pingalwara. Having had relatives visit Pingalwara, I know for a fact that they actively tell you not to give any money to people claiming to be collecting on their behalf. They advise the best way to help is to go direct to Amritsar and donate there. They have some people who collect for them in some main Gurdwaras but no one who goes around in the streets or knocks on doors collecting for them. The guy who approached me was also wearing a dastar and full dahra. When I told him that Pingalwara themselves say don't give money to people like him, he legged it out. I suggest that if they come around again, tell them what I said (you can confirm this by ringing Pingalwara themselves) and say that you will call the police to check their ID and they will run a mile. These people are the lowest of the low, they work on the respect that UK Sikhs have in the seeing a Singh in Bana as well as their desire to help out people in need. These thugs are just an extension of those crooks you get in India who go around the villages in Punjab and get money from villagers for such things as orphanages or old people's homes. Don't feel bad that you have been hoodwinked out of money, it can happen to anyone. They keep coming around because they have a network which shares details of people who have donated to them so that other thugs like them can also go and ask for money. There was a story of a similar scam these lowlifes indulged in which brings Sikhi into disrepute. http://www.hounslowchronicle.co.uk/west-london-news/local-hounslow-news/2011/08/01/prayer-pair-barge-in-and-demand-money-109642-29142542/

You guys should have watched the conspiracy files documentary on 9/11 that aired recently. It would have put your straight. I would have expected this kind of conspiracy rubbish on a Muslim forum as they are trying to distance their religion away from the attack but to see Sikhs promoting these conspiracy theories just shows how dumbed down our religion has become in the last few years. http://www.bbc.co.uk/iplayer/episode/b0148yz5/The_Conspiracy_Files_9_11_Ten_Years_On/

Nice Pic. Seems like a photo taken on his graduation day.

Give it a rest. There is no proof of a Shastarvidya lineage that you claim is real. It's supposed to be secret art so where the hell did you get the lineage? Are you meant to publicise the lineage all over the internet? So now to the facts your only evidence of the lineage is that was what you were told by Niddar.Have you done any independent verification or have you accepted what he told you. I will hazard a guess that you wouldn't have a clue about how to research the lineage and hence you accept any guppan you get told after all they come straight from the Gurdev, right? It's funny how the SV proponents come on here expecting evidence and proof but accept any bit of guppan they get told at their akhara. Btw I don't do Gatka so no use asking me about the lineage.

Wales85 has made some comment which the moderators have deleted because it was felt to be harsh. The moderators comment is about wales85's post not your post.

The original poster is actually talking about the period AFTER partition. Of course Hindus and Sikhs were sizeable minorities in the areas that went to Pakistan in 1947. Apart from just the population, the Sikhs owned the majority of the land in central Punjab and the Hindus owned the businesses in the towns and cities. The creation of Pakistan especially in the eastern parts of West Punjab was akin to a family of tenants usurping the house of the their landlord because they are 5 in number and the landowner is just one person!

Sorry to hear about your problem. You shouldn't take it personally, it's just that amongst many Punjabi families there is a widespread belief that western people are likely to go clubbing, drink and smoke and even start to bring members of the opposite sex home. Many Punjabis only have experience of the negative aspects of westerners, just as some Germans in say a small town in Germany would have all sorts of misconceptions if they saw a Sikh for the first time. Have you thought of contacting the local Gurdwara or if you in West London, the Sikh missionary society? They might be able to put you in touch with a family who have accommodation. The Shepherds Bush Gurdwara is also a good contact point because the Sikhs there tend to be more progressive. You can get the contact details of all these places by googling them. Also have you thought of put an ad yourself on places like gumtree, in this you can put forward what kind of family you want to live with and the ones who respond are the ones who would like to offer you the accommodation? Viel Gluck in your search!!

You have started off with a factual error. After partition the claim that 40% of the population of Pakistan was Hindu and Sikhs is clearly an error. This 'fact' is a favourite with RSS and Hindutva websites. The facts are -; in 1951 according to the census of Pakistan, West Pakistan had 27,741,000 out of 28,706,000 were Muslims or 96.63% were Muslims in East Pakistan 32,227,000 out of 41,932,000 were Muslims or 76.85 %. As a total of both East and West Pakistan, Muslims were 84.89% of the population. In West Pakistan in 1952 Hindus were 528,000 and there were probably a few hundred Sikhs who weren't even officially counted. In 1998 the last time the census was conducted in Pakistan, Hindus were 2,448,000. So within about 47 years the Hindus had increased from 528,000 to 2,448,000. That's about nearly a fivefold increase in 47 years. However with regard to East Pakistan which is now Bangladesh there had been migration and forced conversion of Hindus. In 1951 the Hindus in East Pakistan were 9,239,000 and had only increased to 11,379,000 by 2001. They were 29% of the population in 1951 and had decreased to 9.2% in 2001.

The initial post is so obvious a fake and the admins need to delete it.

What you were looking at was the Lok Sabha elections which are to the central parliament in Delhi. The Punjab state elections to the Vidhan Sabha were held in 2007. The Akalis won 49 seats, BJP won 19 seats and the congress won 44. The total number of seats is 117.

There's a Punjabi proverb that states it's difficult for a teetotaller to sit with a group of drinkers and it's difficult for a drinker to sit with a group of teetotallers.

The only issue I can see is that the sewa does not seem to have been well thought out at the beginning. How takes a loan of 1.2M for TWO years? Surely the loan should have been taken for a longer period or they should have looked at a more modest building and hence a smaller loan from the bank. It would appear that they placed too much reliance on the community being able to cover the interest and perhaps even being able to pay off the loan in 2 years. If they had not taken the loan for such a short period, the bank would not have been able to demand it's money back. Another issue which does come to mind is that most Sikhs in the UK have never heard of the academy or have only heard off it when it was announced some months ago that it was going to close and needed funds. The Sewadars should have made an effort to publicise their work and got the community, not just the local community but all across the UK. What this sad event shows is that until the youth start to take an active interest in taking part in the politics of the Gurdwara by becoming committee members then they will have no access to Gurdwara funds and resources such as halls etc. It doesn't take a genius to work out that most of the Gurdwaras in the area would have made minimal if any contributions to the academy. What the youth need to do is to take part and run in Gurdwara elections like they have done recently in Canada and defeat the old codgers and leftie/communitist nakammay that run Gurdwaras at the moment. If the academy sewadars were also members of or ran committees in the local Gurdwaras they would not firstly have needed to take a loan on a property as Gurdwara halls would have been available to them. Even if they required a property then they could have covered the interest quite easily. Now it looks like a lot of money has been spent on renovating a property which will be lost to the community.

I don't watch SangatTV myself and only caught some of the footage on Tuesday night, But rather than put your points across here, I think you guys should be phoning up the channel during their phone in shows and putting forward you views about how they have let the community down. On here most people understand how stupid SangatTV have been but their viewers also need to be told. Not sure if that Randhawa muppet does live call in shows but that would an ideal way to unmask him in front of the entire community.

I say we send our resident dhimmi doormats eSingh and Cool Water to Kashmir and tell those Muslims what TRUE Islam is! Apparently our doormats know more about what Islam is than those Kashmiris who have been Muslims all their lives!

Both Quilliam Foundation and Majid Nawaz are a joke. There's no difference between Salafis refusing to work and getting dole money from the government and Quilliam getting grants from the govt. Both are milking the system. Quilliam plays on the fears of the govt that they will get another 7/7 from 'radicalised' Muslims. This is from historical study. Show me a time that Muslims have lived in peace in a non-Muslim country without at some stage resorting to threats and blackmailing that country. Look at the 1947 violence, the Muslims started the killings in Calcutta in 1946 to get their own state but when during partition the Muslims of Calcutta were being massacred the Muslim leader Suhrawardy who had ordered the 1946 massacre suddenly became a disciple of Gandhi! Do you think we would be around today has our ancestors in the 18th century trusted Muslim goodwill. How about the Sikhs who went through partition, had they not used counter violence against the Muslims the Sikhs today wouldn't be around or we would be like the Christians are in Pakistan at the moment. It is interesting that when the Sikhs countered the violence of the Muslims, the Pakistani govt was complaining to the UN about the Sikh actions! They have even brought out booklets about a Sikh Plan to wipe out the Muslims! With Islam and Muslims, non-violence doesn't work. That's a bit like saying that the neo-Nazis in the UK aren't dangerous as there are BNP, NF and Combat 18 factions and not all of them agree on everything! You are right, Islam is split and one type of Muslim would happily slit another type of Muslim's throat than he would a non-Muslim's. But that doesn't mean Islam is harmless. Look anywhere around the world and Muslims are at war with non-Muslims. In countries where Muslims are a majority they will discriminate against non-Muslims and make their lives hell. In countries where Muslims are minorities they will demand special status and work to undermine that country from within. You are just regurgitating a liberal myth that gets being aired whenever there is a bombing or some tensions occur in community relations. That there is a majority of Muslims who just want peace with the rest of society and the extremists are just a small minority. Unfortunately this is wishful thinking. If these moderate Muslims exist they are the non-practising westernised Muslims only in name. They are not dangerous purely because they do not practise Islam! They are not stupid. If they did start up something then their community would get it's butt kicked. The government and the people might appear dumb and useless but if they perceive their future is in danger, the Pakistanis won't have a chance. The Pakistanis and Muslims just keep the threat at a certain level. For every Anjem Chaudhry they pull out a Majid Nawaz. The focus is to keep the money coming into the community. Muslims are about 4% of the population yet are 12% of the prison population. The issues you have are monumental in proportion. Sometimes a community may have issues with criminality such as drug dealing but the Pakistanis appear to have all these issues. Health issues with inbreeding, drug dealing, paedophilia, terrorism! Your country is a basketcase economy relying on American dollars to keep you afloat. The Pakistani immigrants have brought criminal activity to other countries. Even the Arabs hate you and that has to show you something given all the arselicking your guys do towards your Arab religious masters!

This is where you are getting it wrong. Such posts don't create haters, they create awareness amongst Sikh youth which has been so lacking in the last few decades and hence the reason that things like grooming occur. The problem all along has been that the Mosques and the Pakistani families teach their kids the supremacist BS and that their religion is the best in the world. Gurdwaras and Sikh families are more likely to propagate a liberal version of Sikhism which is totally unsuited to the present environment. Look at the generations prior to ours, they had more awareness of what Muslims are like. You would probably call that hatred but read the Rehatnamas and see how well the writers knew but the Muslim mentality. Those Muslims of the 18th and 19th centuries were Wahabis or Salafis who are today scape goated as the 'bad' Muslims. The Muslims the rehatnamas talk about are the normal Muslims who if they follow the Quran and Sunnah of Mohammed invariably become similar to Nazis. The Sikh generation that lived through 1947 knows what Islam and Muslims are capable off and none would have a good word about both. It was their AWARENESS of Islam and Muslims that allowed them to survive through 1947 just as in the 18th and 19th centuries the Sikhs of that time survived through the ghallugharas. It is awareness not hatred. I don't know what experience you have with Muslims but it seems that you see the world through rose tinted glasses which is never a good idea. Most of the posters on her who write the posts you like to describe as 'hate filled' base their posts around their experiences and I dare say they are older and have more experience than you.

Your situation is not unique. I know a few people who get ripped off by the landlords. I am a landlord myself and everything I do is above board but you do get others who want to squeeze every last penny out of their tenants. There are also tenants who treat the landlord's house like a pigsty. Your best bet would be to start looking for another place to live. Avoid a place where the landlord lives in the property and live where all the rooms have tenants and then you pay only a share of the electricity and gas. If he is a crook he is unlikely to change so the less sangat of his you keep the better!

It's interesting how we have two very different descriptions of what happened. One which states that two Sikh interlopers crashed a Muslim solemn occasion and the other that a Muslim used Sangat TV to put across his dawah. Will be interested to see what is the truth but knowing Pakistanis I would guess it would be the latter!

I think where the channels have gone wrong is that they have no co-ordination and they seem to be competing with each other. It would have been better if there were two channels, one where most of the programming was in English or at least with subtitling for the majority of it's output the other could be majority in Punjabi. This would have been ideal. Even now given the fact that there are three channels, they could still co-ordinate their output, ie one could have the dhadi vaars, one could have a discussion in English and the other could have Katha. Sometimes you switch between the three channels and they have similar programmes at the same time. You either miss some very good programmes or there's not much to see across all three channels.

BritishPakistani Yours is the classic blame the victim attitude which isn't a surprise to be honest. Look at all the Imams around the world who have been referring to women who go around without a veil/hijab as uncovered meat and basically inviting sexual assault. What is the affect of these statements on Muslims considering that most Muslims need a religious ruling on how and with which hand and with how many stones they should wipe their backsides! I've never come across any Giani or Kathakar saying that women should dress modestly otherwise they are just asking for it. They will ask for modesty in dress for both men and women but never try and imply that dispensing with this will invite a rape assault on women. Your community has very serious issues both with terrorism and with criminality. Pakistanis like to imply that they have control of their community but having a disproportionate amount of drug dealers, terrorists and paedophiles tells a different story. Sweeping the grooming issue under the carpet and trying to imply that it is a media witch hunt won't resolve these issues. According to official figures, 53 out of 56 convictions for grooming were 'Asians'! Of which 50 were Muslims and the majority of these were Pakistanis! That's about 90%! I've lost count of the times I've opened the newspaper and had to look at the ugly mugs of some inbred Pakistanis who have just been convicted of grooming. Before you take offence at me describing them as inbred, please note that most of them have been married to some cousin from Pakistan! Isn't that what the EDL is doing now? Raising awareness of the attitudes that Muslims have towards non-Muslim girls. So why you complaining about the EDL?

Bit like asking the Jews and Nazis to work together! Will the Muslims dispense with the Mein Kampf of Mohammed? Historically the only semblance of unity and co-operation occurred when the Sikhs ruled Punjab, although even that is overplayed by some of the liberal Sikhs. The fact that many Sikhs on here don't want to accept is that our ancestors were much wiser than we are when it comes to knowing what Islam is and what attitudes and behaviours it inculcates in Muslims. Muslims only understand the language of violence. After 9/11 and 7/7 most Muslims thought the game was up and the West would be putting them into concentration camps and then on the first flight back to Pakiland. I heard this from literally hundreds of Muslims from Pakistanis to Somalis. But when they discovered that the liberal west was more interested in finding out what IT had done wrong that caused the Muslims to get violent, the Muslims changed their attitudes. Rather than a meek minority, they became more and more aggressive. Muppets like Blair and Brown threw millions of pounds at the Muslims and they like most thought "when we behave they give us nothing but when we get violent and bomb their people we get millions of pounds!" So what do you think? That they will behave in the future? BritishPakistani might very well be one of those small minority of Muslims who actually feel some loyalty to the country they reside in as well as a fellow feeling with non-Muslims. The first could be argued as being in line with the Quran but the second certainly isn't! It's interesting that he seeks to divide his community into a minority who are criminals (drug dealers, sex abusers ), another minority who are religious extremists and the majority who he tells us are the same as him. I beg to differ, scratch any of his 'good' Pakistanis and you will, depending on the circumstances get a religious extremist or a criminal! As I have written before, the Sikhs who are acting as if the Pakistanis are our best friends are just acting like useful idiots. The Pakistanis have the worst reputation in the UK even worse than the Kalay have. Even though a majority of the rioters were kalay yet you will still hear and read more bad comments from the general society against Pakistanis than kalay. The Pakistanis need good media after all the terrorist plots and grooming news stories that we have been getting on a daily basis. By standing with them, the Sikhs are creating an impression that we are also like them and there will be some very bad outcomes because of this in the future.