2nd Generation Sikh Fanaticism

[Raju]

why are folks here always saying (esp about facial hair) that it does not matter what people think of you but instead focus on what Guruji thinks of you ??

Are not all human beings, animals etc the creation of the One God himself ??

And if all human beings are the creation of God, then can they all be dismissed as irrelevant along with their opinions ??

It is possible that human opinions can be flawed, but can one be overtly dismissive of everything ?? Don't all living beings represent a face of God ??

[GurSa Singh]

Waheguru Ji Ka Khalsa Waheguru Ji Ki Fateh!

Kandola Ji, why have you put a Dastar & Dara on Homer Simpson. What's the significance in that? Just curious....

GurFateh!

[gupt_paapi]

NO THAT CANT BE THE REHIT! no jopes that is just anti sikh in every way. i mnt he caste thing wot the chutney?!?!

this cant be Khalsa.. who follows dis

kandola veerji i agree with u n i seem 2 be sur[rised for ur viewpoints to be this (n also that u a monah.. i would never had gessed, n NO its not coz of dat homer pic lol)

its not only abt rehit. i min sum people jsut get twisted into rehit so much! its lyk wheres ur sikhi gone? ur better opff in an army camp if u wanta  strict discipline. this discipline should at least AID you 4 spiritual gaining idont see how the above mentioned rehit helps this..

Hope u understand this fool..

waheguruuu :doh:

113865[/snapback]

Sorry i dont understand what you mean. Because, the Khalsa is a Strict way of life. Its enjoyable but its strict hence its distinct. Also, the Khalsa is an army, the Army of God hence the reason you pick up arms at the last resort. Hence Sikhs are born Warriors. I must have got this wrong somewhere in my personal learning of Sikhi and also the Sikhi i learned in school... <_< @

113866[/snapback]

Nah veerji im on abt the quotes made by a veerji abt caste rules etc etc. but yeh ur right, spot on :TH:

[gupt_paapi]

yo... people

shut up

this sureal guy posted once, and never came back.... think MAYBE he's jus tryin to get y'all to fight amongst each other?

SUCCESS!

113875[/snapback]

bahahahahahahaha

113883[/snapback]

cant beleve how right dat is :doh: @ damn! wot mockery

[Guest SScom]

hmmm

ultimate source for how to live your life is:

DHAN SRI GURU GRANTH SAHIB JEE MAHARAJ.

Dont just go by rough loose translations and dont be fooled by what other interpretations people give u. U have to study Guru Jee's bachans very in depth. You have to have a special relationship with Guru Jee and to do that you have to take the time and spend time. Tell me, if a child does not spend time with his father, how will he be able to recognise or know his father? Our Father is always there... we have to go and spend time to get all the answers because Guru Granth Sahib Jee is the key... they key to all the answers you seek. ALL OF THEM. What are you doing, personally, to get to know that Jot?

bhul chuk maaf. Just my two cents...

[All-Info]

"please someone, give me a quote from SGGS saying that appearence is very i

important"

EK ONKAR - There is only one - There is One God. There is One Roop.

Guru Gobind Singh Ji asked, i want to see the Roop of Waheguru. And who does he see, BABA FATEH SINGH!!! Standing proud in Bana, Bunga Dhumala, Shastar, and Farla. Guru Ji then says thats what i want my Gursikhs to Look Like.

Khalsa Mera Roop Ha Khas (apologies if i have spelt wrong)

Guru Ji gave HIS APPEARANCE to HIS SIKHS and said whenever there is a crowd, i will see MY SIKHS standing tall and distinct in it.

Thats the importance of appearance.

I am unable to give you more qoutes, unfortunatly i have not been blessed with such Gian to ready Gurbani but the above should be help ful enough for you to understand.

But then why dont u make the effort to go and ask Guru Ji Himself. Makes sense!!! Say to him, does it really matter if i dnt keep your roop. I love you but i reject your appearance.

Maharaj also says, if you cant see me, for what ever reason that may be, then when you see another GurSikh! You should be so happy that you treat them with the same respect as you would treat Guru.

Ever wondered why when you go on holiday and you see another sikh family u jump up and down with joy?? you may never any thing to them but u know u get happy feelings inside! Now if that person was just another monay for example and had sleepves etc on, wasnt wearing a kara.. U wudnt recognise them as a sikh, u wud see them as maybe a hindu or a muslim. That is why APPEARANCE is so important in Sikhi.

WJKK WJKF

[K Singh 82]

protect the cow

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protect the cow being Rehat?????

Kandola neither do i worship cows, neither do i need to protect ONLY cows

Sikhs protect all animals not just cows, cows don't hold any more importance than any other animal

If you talk about animals and sikhi.. a horse or a baaj come to mind, and NOT cows, i don't know what Saakhi you been reading

We ain't Hindu's m8

u aint been watchin mahabharat hav you

[gupt_paapi]

Maharaj also says, if you cant see me, for what ever reason that may be, then when you see another GurSikh! You should be so happy that you treat them with the same respect as you would treat Guru.

Ever wondered why when you go on holiday and you see another sikh family u jump up and down with joy?? you may never any thing to them but u know u get happy feelings inside! Now if that person was just another monay for example and had sleepves etc on, wasnt wearing a kara.. U wudnt recognise them as a sikh, u wud see them as maybe a hindu or a muslim. That is why APPEARANCE is so important in Sikhi.

YES! dat is soo true!

[sureal69]

The point about facial hair on women is i believe you should not remove any hair on your face unless its caused by an illness, then i personally believe that it is an exception. The reason i believe this is because my cousins best mate had alot of facial hair but she wore a  keski since she was a kid like most of us. But when she got to her teens the hair started to get really bad but her parents said no you cant remove it even though it was really noticeable. So instead she started waxing and stuff not blatantly but to keep the growth at bay. When her parents found out they were like you basharam you should be ashamed  of yourself who are you doing this for the usual. That was it for she became depressed cuz she felt trapped she couldnt just give up sikhi because she still had that pyaar their but she felt to concious to go to keertan programmes where people would stare at her. Unfortunately she stopped going out the house and all she ever did was obsess about how she wanted to do kirtyan in sangat and would love to go to a rehnsbahi but just couldnt.

At the present moment she is now not wearing a keski has given up all hope with alot of sikhs and their extremism and has had laser treatment to sort the problem out. And believe it or not she is the most boosted woman i know she does loads of seva and wakes up everyday at amritvela that more than i can say for those people who were saying to her that you have to live with.

Bhul chuck maaf

113833[/snapback]

Thank you Cksinghani for you above story. It speaks volumes on how out of touch many parents are with respect to the world we all live in here in the west. Look how much she had to go through simply to become who she is inside.

I will cover a few recurring points I’ve seen on this thread because I think its important that I do so to add credibility to this discussion and my views.

1) I am very much a Sikh and have always loved my religion in a way that is very personal to me. It is always easy to attack someone else’s commitment rather than evaluate or be critical of your own. So stop and look at how you’re damaging your own faith and excluding others by your Bana’s and your talk of rehats. Instead of welcoming another soul into such a wonderful and peaceful religion.

2) Khalistan: Before posting any further comments on this site please read Fighting for Faith and Nation by Amazon link: http://www.amazon.com/exec/obidos/tg/detai...=books&n=507846 These people fought for our religion in order to fight tyranny. Not to build some utopian society it was a reaction to oppression, the things that lead to 1984 etc.. are still present today. Look at gurudwara politics and you’ll see we are incapable of defending ourselves. We are hardly united and particularly limited in our ability to see the long term ramifications of this infighting. A nation that cannot decide on whether to sit on the ground or in chairs during langar has no business aspiring to nationhood. Our much revered Raja Ranjit Singh who some worship alongside the gurus was addicted to opium and drank himself to death. We are the largest per capita hard liquor drinkers in the world, Punjab, India. The drinking ability of Sikhs is renowned throughout India yet, we pretend as if we’re this mighty army of god. I must say when I hear the word Army and God in the same sentence I feel it starts sounding a lot like Islam and fanaticism.

3) Guru Nanak Dev Ji, was impressed if not influenced to a degree by Sufi philosophy, he spent time with these people. Bhia Mardana was a muslim and died a muslim, Guru Ji didn’t even want others to change their religion, he just wanted them to experience god’s love with him. Within the Guru Granth Sahib, we have bani’s written by muslims, by hindu’s and trust me they didn’t wear turbans and their women didn’t have beards. I guess in your mind they weren’t Sikhs even though their banis is in the Guru Granth Sahib. If you with your facial hair and beard ever met Bhai Mardana or some of the hindu’s or muslims who have their “Bani” within our Granth Sahib you would dismiss them as Moslem or Hindu. Never even taking time to listen to what they had to say. Sad but that’s the state of affairs for the vast majority of Sikhs.

4) The things that would attract someone to Sikhism.

a. Translations of the Guru granth sahib and the open including vision of all of the Gurus. They did not care who you were, what you were as long as you had love for humanity and were willing to serve others and see god within them as we are all god’s creation.

5) The things that will distract and repulse someone from Sikhism:

a. Crazy talk of Rehats.

b. Women with beards.

c. Crazy talk of a eutopian society and about giving your head to guru ji. Very violent image if you ask me.

d. Wearing a large turban on your head (women) when a simple scarf would surely suffice.

e. Trying to always exclude others and finding things to wear that make it look like you’re more religious than the next person.

6) Women and beards and turbans.

a. Can we all agree that women are either much more image conscious than men?

i. In any culture you will notice how women will always prep themselves better than men.

b. Women will never give you a straight answer on these topics.

i. Weight

ii. Age (as they get older mind you but you know what I mean.)

c. What they will do:

i. Make up and concealers

ii. Fake hair color

iii. Fake nails

iv. Fake hair extensions

v. Straighten their hair if its curly, curl it if its straight.

vi. Wax almost anything at any time.

7) This is an Indian hair removal system practiced to this day all over

Punjab. I’m sure its not just western image forced onto us about beauty that makes female facial hair unattractive.

a. http://www.niralimagazine.com/beauty/0504_shobha-salon.html

b. Women will try to differentiate themselves from men as much as possible to accentuate the difference between the sexes.

c. Men big and strong, women feminine and nurturing. Facial hair confuses the issue, that’s why women do remove it. Nothing to do with western culture and all that stuff.

I am simply exhausted but I’ll continue the good fight later on. As a woman if you think putting on a turban and growing a beard and moustache makes you equal then I am saddened by your lack of learning with respect to men and society and Sikhism.

The same parents who encourage all of this will be shocked to learn that even the men in these samagams who cheer you on will refuse to marry you because they’ll opt for the traditional Punjabi looking girl. Waxed and sans turban. I’ve seen it happen time and time again. Its sad to see the hypocrisy but it exists. All this talk about giving your head to the guru, whatever! The guru doesn’t want your head you <banned word filter activated>, the guru’s want a nation that is confident, open and accepting. With love for humanity and service to society. What the tenth Guru did was a culmination of everything the other nine had taught and believed. It is:

1) Bani

2) Then Kesh

3) Then Amrit.

Not wear a Tokra (basket) on your head and walk around pointing your finger at other religions and other Sikhs be they cut, trimmed or whatever. The trimmed will stop cutting your hair once he sees you live by example. The cut will grow his hair as he sees you include him/her. Sikhism is focused on quality not quantity but still if we cannot even convince Sikhs born into sikh households about Sikhism how can we propagate our message?

As for the comment that Sikhs are discriminated against in India and that’s why you see so few Sikhs wearing turbans.

LOLOLOLO Give me a <mod edit>: First Warning break!!! They are all into looking like Sunny Deol, it has nothing to do with discrimination. It has to do with the fact that our forefathers felt it necessary to fight in the Gurudwaras rather than build anything meaningful for the next generation. If you go to a Gurudwara today do you see anything meaningful there for us? A message aimed at us however randomly. NOPE! Just another push to build another gurudwara because there was some fight within the committee during election time.

Definitions:

Fanatic:

marked by excessive enthusiasm and often intense uncritical devotion.

Fundamentalist:

a movement or attitude stressing strict and literal adherence to a set of basic principles

So being a sikh and not questioning beliefs with “often intense uncritical devotion” makes you a fanatic and hence anti-sikh.

So being a sikh: stressing strict and literal adherence to a set of basic principles, makes you a fundamentalist and hence not a Sikh.

We had Guru’s and we had Sikhs. Guru = teacher, Sikh = equals student or disciple. Sikhism says we don’t have all the answering but we’re learning from our teachers the Gurus. So being a fanatic or a fundamentalist is being ant-sikh. Being proud of being either makes you a joke.

[sureal69]

The point about facial hair on women is i believe you should not remove any hair on your face unless its caused by an illness, then i personally believe that it is an exception. The reason i believe this is because my cousins best mate had alot of facial hair but she wore a  keski since she was a kid like most of us. But when she got to her teens the hair started to get really bad but her parents said no you cant remove it even though it was really noticeable. So instead she started waxing and stuff not blatantly but to keep the growth at bay. When her parents found out they were like you basharam you should be ashamed  of yourself who are you doing this for the usual. That was it for she became depressed cuz she felt trapped she couldnt just give up sikhi because she still had that pyaar their but she felt to concious to go to keertan programmes where people would stare at her. Unfortunately she stopped going out the house and all she ever did was obsess about how she wanted to do kirtyan in sangat and would love to go to a rehnsbahi but just couldnt.

At the present moment she is now not wearing a keski has given up all hope with alot of sikhs and their extremism and has had laser treatment to sort the problem out. And believe it or not she is the most boosted woman i know she does loads of seva and wakes up everyday at amritvela that more than i can say for those people who were saying to her that you have to live with.

Bhul chuck maaf

113833[/snapback]

Thank you Cksinghani for you above story. It speaks volumes on how out of touch many parents are with respect to the world we all live in here in the west. Look how much she had to go through simply to become who she is inside.

I will cover a few recurring points I’ve seen on this thread because I think its important that I do so to add credibility to this discussion and my views.

1) I am very much a Sikh and have always loved my religion in a way that is very personal to me. It is always easy to attack someone else’s commitment rather than evaluate or be critical of your own. So stop and look at how you’re damaging your own faith and excluding others by your Bana’s and your talk of rehats. Instead of welcoming another soul into such a wonderful and peaceful religion.

2) Khalistan: Before posting any further comments on this site please read Fighting for Faith and Nation by Amazon link: http://www.amazon.com/exec/obidos/tg/detai...=books&n=507846 These people fought for our religion in order to fight tyranny. Not to build some utopian society it was a reaction to oppression, the things that lead to 1984 etc.. are still present today. Look at gurudwara politics and you’ll see we are incapable of defending ourselves. We are hardly united and particularly limited in our ability to see the long term ramifications of this infighting. A nation that cannot decide on whether to sit on the ground or in chairs during langar has no business aspiring to nationhood. Our much revered Raja Ranjit Singh who some worship alongside the gurus was addicted to opium and drank himself to death. We are the largest per capita hard liquor drinkers in the world, Punjab, India. The drinking ability of Sikhs is renowned throughout India yet, we pretend as if we’re this mighty army of god. I must say when I hear the word Army and God in the same sentence I feel it starts sounding a lot like Islam and fanaticism.

3) Guru Nanak Dev Ji, was impressed if not influenced to a degree by Sufi philosophy, he spent time with these people. Bhia Mardana was a muslim and died a muslim, Guru Ji didn’t even want others to change their religion, he just wanted them to experience god’s love with him. Within the Guru Granth Sahib, we have bani’s written by muslims, by hindu’s and trust me they didn’t wear turbans and their women didn’t have beards. I guess in your mind they weren’t Sikhs even though their banis is in the Guru Granth Sahib. If you with your facial hair and beard ever met Bhai Mardana or some of the hindu’s or muslims who have their “Bani” within our Granth Sahib you would dismiss them as Moslem or Hindu. Never even taking time to listen to what they had to say. Sad but that’s the state of affairs for the vast majority of Sikhs.

4) The things that would attract someone to Sikhism.

a. Translations of the Guru granth sahib and the open including vision of all of the Gurus. They did not care who you were, what you were as long as you had love for humanity and were willing to serve others and see god within them as we are all god’s creation.

5) The things that will distract and repulse someone from Sikhism:

a. Crazy talk of Rehats.

b. Women with beards.

c. Crazy talk of a eutopian society and about giving your head to guru ji. Very violent image if you ask me.

d. Wearing a large turban on your head (women) when a simple scarf would surely suffice.

e. Trying to always exclude others and finding things to wear that make it look like you’re more religious than the next person.

6) Women and beards and turbans.

a. Can we all agree that women are either much more image conscious than men?

i. In any culture you will notice how women will always prep themselves better than men.

b. Women will never give you a straight answer on these topics.

i. Weight

ii. Age (as they get older mind you but you know what I mean.)

c. What they will do:

i. Make up and concealers

ii. Fake hair color

iii. Fake nails

iv. Fake hair extensions

v. Straighten their hair if its curly, curl it if its straight.

vi. Wax almost anything at any time.

7) This is an Indian hair removal system practiced to this day all over

Punjab. I’m sure its not just western image forced onto us about beauty that makes female facial hair unattractive.

a. http://www.niralimagazine.com/beauty/0504_shobha-salon.html

b. Women will try to differentiate themselves from men as much as possible to accentuate the difference between the sexes.

c. Men big and strong, women feminine and nurturing. Facial hair confuses the issue, that’s why women do remove it. Nothing to do with western culture and all that stuff.

I am simply exhausted but I’ll continue the good fight later on. As a woman if you think putting on a turban and growing a beard and moustache makes you equal then I am saddened by your lack of learning with respect to men and society and Sikhism.

The same parents who encourage all of this will be shocked to learn that even the men in these samagams who cheer you on will refuse to marry you because they’ll opt for the traditional Punjabi looking girl. Waxed and sans turban. I’ve seen it happen time and time again. Its sad to see the hypocrisy but it exists. All this talk about giving your head to the guru, whatever! The guru doesn’t want your head you <banned word filter activated>, the guru’s want a nation that is confident, open and accepting. With love for humanity and service to society. What the tenth Guru did was a culmination of everything the other nine had taught and believed. It is:

1) Bani

2) Then Kesh

3) Then Amrit.

Not wear a Tokra (basket) on your head and walk around pointing your finger at other religions and other Sikhs be they cut, trimmed or whatever. The trimmed will stop cutting your hair once he sees you live by example. The cut will grow his hair as he sees you include him/her. Sikhism is focused on quality not quantity but still if we cannot even convince Sikhs born into sikh households about Sikhism how can we propagate our message?

As for the comment that Sikhs are discriminated against in India and that’s why you see so few Sikhs wearing turbans.

LOLOLOLO Give me a break!!! They are all into looking like Sunny Deol, it has nothing to do with discrimination. It has to do with the fact that our forefathers felt it necessary to fight in the Gurudwaras rather than build anything meaningful for the next generation. If you go to a Gurudwara today do you see anything meaningful there for us? A message aimed at us however randomly. NOPE! Just another push to build another gurudwara because there was some fight within the committee during election time.

Definitions:

Fanatic:

marked by excessive enthusiasm and often intense uncritical devotion.

Fundamentalist:

a movement or attitude stressing strict and literal adherence to a set of basic principles

So being a sikh and not questioning beliefs with “often intense uncritical devotion” makes you a fanatic and hence anti-sikh.

So being a sikh: stressing strict and literal adherence to a set of basic principles, makes you a fundamentalist and hence not a Sikh.

We had Guru’s and we had Sikhs. Guru = teacher, Sikh = equals student or disciple. Sikhism says we don’t have all the answering but we’re learning from our teachers the Gurus. So being a fanatic or a fundamentalist is being ant-sikh. Being proud of being either makes you a joke.

113936[/snapback]

Just to further add to my never ending essay on contemporary sikhism I must say the overwhelming message about our Gurudwaras is that they are voilent unwelcoming places. The message is loud and it is clear, YOU ARE NOT WELCOME.

If you are one of the following.

1) Not of the right caste. Thats why you see Jat gurudwaras, Ramgharia Gurudwaras and Chumar Gurudwaras.

2) You do not wear a turban, because i have often heard the comment I refuse to listen to kirtan or kutha from someone who has a hair cut. Sikh means to learn and to listen and disagree. That is how you learn as a Sikh.

I am not out to cause contraversy or to hurt anyone's feeling but give me a break about the whole bearded woman thing. When I see that I'm repulsed and I don't care what alot of guys say, I know what people say in the background and how they make their marriage choices. That speaks volumes.