Image Of The Guru

[Bundha]

Surat, sometimes it is best to use humour to get a point across rather then a rant and rave.

Regarding pictures of the Gurus:

I KNOW that the pictures are not a true depiction of our Gurus (apart from a couple, like Guru Nanak Dev Ji’s by Baba Nanad Singh Ji. To me this picture captures just a glimpse of the glory of Guru Nanak Dev Ji, no benevolent old person depicted here who would run out of breath after only a few steps. Here Guru Nanak Dev Ji shows a steely determination and poise, a person you can believe travelled the length and breath of Asia on foot, but I digress…..) but even though I know they are not a true depiction when I look at them they remind me of my Guru……..surely that is a good thing.

My few grey cells seem to think that idol worship is when you actually worship the wooden/stone/paper artefact infront of you as the actual object of your worship. This is not the case when I look at a picture of Guru Sahib Ji and bow to it. I am not bowing to the picture but bowing to the almighty who I envisage as being infront of me. I feel there is a big difference.

Some people do not keep any pictures of the Guru’s in their home, fair enough (their lose) but to me when I walk from one room to another and I see images of my Guru, they remind me of Him ( and God do I need to be nudged , with all the worldly things Guru Ji is the one person I forget about in my daily life) I may mentally bow my head towards Guru Ji – not to the picture but to Guru Ji. I feel this is a good thing.

As someone has said, why do we keep all those pictures of the wife/kids/mum/dad/grandparents in our homes. What about the picture of the husband/wife stuffed into our wallets which we gaze at longingly whenever we open it, is this not a kind of idol worship?

Please check this link of stories that may amuse you about how we Sikhs say one thing and do another.

The stories get better as you go on by the way:

http://www.info-sikh.com/PageHumIndx.html

[UntitledSingh]

Vaheguru Ji Ka Khalsa

Vaheguru Ji Ke Fateh

I dont see any thing wrong keeping pictures of the Gurus, on my computer I have a picture of vaisakhi 1699, here it is:

this picture is worth a thousand words,

but I can see why many people didn't want any pictures of the Gurus, it is because they were afraid people would start bowing to them and worshiping them. Yes, I do think it is wrong to bow to a picture of Guru ji, or even a tree, or the nishan sahib, Sikhs can only bow to the Guru Granth Sahib. And what exactly are we bowing to? the hard outer covering? the pages? the writing? No, it is the devine knowledge it gives us.

In the other post regarding the Nanaksar Gurdwara, I dont think they intended to put the picture behind the Guru Granth Sahib so people could bow to it, I think it was just there.

Vaheguru Ji Ka Khalsa

Vaheguru Ji Ke Fateh

[gupt_paapi]

Nothing wrong with pictures, they give you inspiration

Just don't refer to them as Waheguru. That all i suppose

[WGJKKWGJKF]

WAHEGURU JI KA KHALSA WAHEGURU JI KI FATEH

I agree with the above post.

As these images can remind us of the Gurus teachings and inspire us to live a better life.

WAHEGURU JI KA KHALSA WAHEGURU JI KI FATEH

[disguised]

true.. adn dont liek worship them either.. (i.e. bowing) thts wrong!!

[TeraRoop11]

Actually, the reason so many people disagree with pictures and other forms of visual representations of our Beloved Guru Sahibaans is because they see it as disrespectful. Who knows what Guru Ji's physical roop looked like? I am sure everyone here has heard something or other about that ONE painting that someone attempted of Guru Ji, and barely reached the neck?

Even if you do not worship the pictures, or bow down to them, or consider them the embodiment of Guru Ji or Waheguru Ji.. we still give those pictures a certain a mount of respect. The question is, should we respect those pictures which have nothing to do at all with our true Guru Ji's? I mean, we can't DISrespect them, because they do, in fact, represent Guru Sahibaans.. but that shouldn't be a problem in the first place.. because it's just like idols then.

Let me put it this way - if you saw a picture of Guru Ji on the floor, would you not pick it up? If you say yes, you would, then you have grown to give such pictures the acknowledgement that they are actual pictures of our Guru Ji's.

bhull chuk maaf

Waheguru Ji Ka Khalsa! Waheguru Ji Ki Fateh!

[rKr]

Baba Harnaam Singh Jee RampurKhera Saahib vale said that it is good to have pictures, to focus your mind on.

Once you focus your mind on the pic, begin to focus on your recitation, the two will tie up along the line, and your concentration on baani will increase.

It seems to work for me. There are others who don't feel the need to have a picture to concentrate, that is not a bad thing either.

Forgive me for my many mistakes.

[GuruManeyoGranth]

Waheguroo Jee Ka Khalsa!

Waheguroo Jee Kee Fateh!!

I agree with rKr Bhaen Jee. As well as the Bachans of Baba Harnaam Singh Jee, Baba Nand Singh Jee had the picture of Guru Nanak Dev Jee painted after sangat asked them what Guroo Nanak Dev Jee look liked. Baba Nand Singh gave them his interpretation of what Guroo Nanak Dev Jee looked like. This arose because his avastha was so high that Guroo Jee gave him Darshan everyday. The painting is there not to be worshipped, because as Sikhs we worship Akaal Purakh and Gur-Shabad. However, if the picture helps to tune your attention to Waheguroo and the teachings of Guroo Sahibaan, then it's all good.

We have pictures of Guroo Sahib's and Sikh history around our house. These are not worshipped, but provide a reminder of our history and heritage. For example, my young cousins do not have much of a Sikhi upbringing because their parents aren't into Sikhi. But when they come round, the pictures stimulate them to ask questions. From this, they learn about Sikh history.

If we worship the pictures, then that's wrong. But if we use them to help focus our attention to Waheguroo, then it's commendable. For those of you that do not need pictures, then that's good for you. But don't criticise those that do need those pictures. At the end of the day, it's all about the context within which we use these things.

Bhul Chuk Maaf

Waheguroo

[Guest A Singh.]

I would like to see a quote of where Baba Harnam Singh has said this because I find this difficult to believe. Gursikhs have told me we should do Simran exactly how our Panj Pyare have taught us; doing the way as taught in the Amrit Sanchar by Guru Sahib is obviously the best.

Kulbir Singh has written a short piece on Tapoban regarding this:

what you are suggesting is totally contrary to Gurmat way of naam abhyaas. Gurmat way of naam abhyaas is summarized in the following pankiti:

SHABAD GUR, SURAT DHUN CHELA||

The pankiti should be translated as follows. Surat i.e. our concentration is the chela and dhuni i.e. sound of shabad (Gurmantr) is Guru. This means that we our concentration that is chela i.e. disciple should listen attentively to the dhuni i.e. sound that comes out of jap of Shabad. This is the Gurmat technique of Naam.

Here are pankitis to support this:

SUNAIYAI, LAAGAI SEHAJ DHYAAN||

(Through listening to Naam, sehaj dhyaan is attained)

RAAM NAAM SUNN, RASNA KEHTAY||

(While doing swaas swaas simran in Baikharee baani, one should listen to it at the same time. Raam naam noo suno, rasna naal kehinde hoye. Rasna naan naam is bakharee form of abhyaas i.e. the audible abhyaas. While we are in public all day we do same swaas swaas abhyaas in non-baikharee form i.e. non-audible form. It is audible to us but not to the world)

A very famous abhyaasi Singh – Bhai Raghbir Singh Bir used to do abhyaas by keeping a picture of Guru Nanak Dev jee in front of him. He would focus on the picture and do abhyaas. After a while this picture took a live form and would smile at him and even talk to him. Bhai Raghbir Singh Bir used to think that he had attained a great avastha but later he found out that he had actually gone the wrong way.

It took him many years to get back to the Gurmat way of abhyaas i.e. only listening to naam. He wasted 10 years in this process. Hopefully our veer and bhains will learn up from this singh’s experience.

TO DO NAAM ABHYAAS HAVING ANY MATERIAL THING IN FRONT IS PURE IDOL WORSHIPPING.

Daas,

Kulbir Singh

[rKr]

Baba Jee told my parents when they graced our moorakh family with their presance sometime in 1981 I think. They were at our residence here in the UK and my parents asked the question.

Baba Jee told them about satkaar and love for Guru Saahib and how a picture can focus our minds on thought.

Baba Jee did a lot of katha when at our residence... I will ask Harvinder Singh from Wolves if they perhaps something in writing, but cannot guarantee it.