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the most funny thing you wrote was ayodhaya getting attacked..It is so funny whenever hindu media mentions that..They make it feel like ayodhya city was attacked with tanks and mortar shelling as in a war. But in reality- a man rammed his jeep into the gate of a temple and fired some shots in the air. So in india hindu media takes it as ayodhaya was attacked ..WoW? so what did the indian newspapers wrote when darbar sahib was attacked..

later it was found out that guy was a pande a brahmin..lol.

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kashmirs don't want to live with india, why hasn't india agreed to a refrandum in kashmir?

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Define kashmiri !

a few sunni muslim madmen who wish to slaves of the arab masters and wish to be treated like dirt by pakistani elite do not constitute kashmiri in my vocabulary.

These people live mostly in and around Srinagar and a few other Sunni Islamic districts. They want all the goodies they can garner as freeloaders from India. But they also are far too cowardly to oppose pakistan-sponsored terrorism.

That is the genus of the kashmiri you are talking about.

Do you know that recently a kashmiri lady police officer was raped by a few of your so-called 'freedom fighters', her parents who share the same genus as the above category of people issued an advertisement in the local paper that their daughter was raped due to her own faults.

The Indian soldiers there are no saints, they have to fight these rotten scoundrels from across the border and inside the border. They can also do wrong, I have never denied it. But they are there on the orders of the govt of India and the people of India. And they dare not disobey if they want to see their country united.

Many common kashmiris are just plain and simple afraid of both the people they see (militants as well as Indian army) but there are a whole lot of people who won't do a single hard day's work but will jump into action for providing guidance to terrorists on where to place roadside bombs to kill and maim the maximum army personnel etc.

HRW, amnesty, US, State Dept can continue to croak as much as they want, but it is the public opinion in India that will decide what we must do with the abovementioned buggers.

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There is no good in debating you Mr Raju. How can Indians decide what kashmiris want?

do kashmiris decide what indians want?

regarding the rape of a kashmiri women by terrorists. Do you even know how many rapes indian army has done in kashmir. Indian army uses rape as a technique to harrass islamic families as in islamic culture they ussually kill the women if she is raped. what a way by the indian army and indians to justify the unity of nation.

what you are suggesting is the that the terrorist indian army should rape, kill and opress the majority if the so called utopian akhund bharat is threatened. this is the least level of animalistic behaviour shown by who sing kheer , paneer and kashmir.

let kashmiris decide what they want. don't dictate them. By making the border states like punjab,kshmir and northeast the least industrilized ones and discriminating them on lawful grounds you are denying the the justice to them and promoting the terrorism of india.

You went far from getting their voice heard thru refrandum, let them live and have a refrandum in kashmir. GOI knws kashmirs would never opt for india as they were never part of india.

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There is no good in debating you Mr Raju.

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tis good that you realized that ! hehe

How can Indians decide what kashmiris want?

do kashmiris decide what indians want?

regarding the rape of a kashmiri women by terrorists. Do you even know how many rapes indian army has done in kashmir. Indian army uses rape as a technique to harrass islamic families as in islamic culture they ussually kill the women if she is raped. what a way by the indian army and indians to justify the unity of nation.

what you are suggesting is the that the terrorist indian army should rape, kill and opress the majority if the so called utopian akhund bharat is threatened. this is the least level of animalistic behaviour shown by who sing kheer , paneer and kashmir.

let kashmiris decide what they want. don't dictate them. By making the border states like punjab,kshmir and northeast the least industrilized ones and discriminating them on lawful grounds you are denying the the justice to them and promoting the terrorism of india.

You went far from getting their voice heard thru refrandum, let them live and have a refrandum in kashmir. GOI knws kashmirs would never opt for india as they were never part of india.

Harmeet Singh je you have to understand where I come from. I am from a minority community as well. My family was the earliest to adopt christianity in the whole world because they were followers of St. Thomas of Cana (Canaan) in palestine. St. Thomas of Canaan came to India with some 300 families from Syria on a dhow (ancient wooden ship) on orders of another St. Thomas, who was the disciple of Jesus, who was believed to be preaching somewhere in Chaldea (biblical ancient India) at that time.

I am a minority in my state, in my country and wherever I go. But I do not have half or quarter the problems these Sunni muslim kashmiris seem to be having w.r.t. regarding INdia as my country. Since I was a direct witness to the 84' riots, I had a dislike for the congress and I never pinned responsibility for that on 'hindus'. Though in 88 I had to change my opinion about the opposing party called BJP/RSS when they destroyed the 'Babri masjid' because I was seeing for the second time a lawless bunch run amock, the country looked truly like a banana republic. My class @ that time had a few muslim girls as students as well and I was pretty shocked when I saw some hindus give 'high-fives' on destruction of babri masjid etc. I mean these are people who rarely talked anything about religion at all, I continued to be shocked when general people were supporting 'small-minded' policies of hindu parties like BJP/RSS.

Then much later in my life I investigated more deeply on the reasons behind hindu behaviour, it seems that hindus have a deep complex about a lot of things which they maintain to this day. Kashmir was basically a hindu and buddhist area before the Islamists came and converted the local through the threat of sword. Hindus were continually oppressed till the Dogras and Sikhs took control of kashmir. I have had the opportunity to interact with a lot of kashmiri hindus in my life and the one thing that comes across shortly is their lack of self-confidence and spiritlessness. They seem very vulnerable.

Then there are Kashmiri Shias who are as patriotic Indians as anybody, especially because they have examples to the north of their border in Gilgit and Baltistan who are continually being repressed everyday (don't believe me, just google for it & u'll know what I am talkin about). These people do not want anything else than be part of India and people in Gilgit and Baltistan curse the day when the sunni islamic entity called pakistan became the purveyors of their lives.

So Kashmiri Hindus (who are 30%), Shias, buddhists do not want to be part of anything else but India except for a few sunni muslim perpetually unsatisfied jokers then they got to be dreaming to think that India is going to give up even an inch of territory for their dream of another Islamic state in the subcontinent. India is committed not to let another Islamic entity take root in its neighbourhood whatsoever be the cost.

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India on the Frontline

By BRAHMA CHELLANEY

October 31, 2005; Page A17

Quote:

The Indian capital has faced several major acts of terror since the 1980s, but the serial bombings targeting festival shoppers over the weekend were the deadliest yet, leaving at least 61 dead. Yet India is responding typically to the latest horror -- with brave words that can do little to hide its lack of both a coherent counter- terrorism strategy and the political will to go beyond mere reprobation.

The latest bombings -- crude in their indiscriminate targeting of civilians and sophisticated in their synchronization -- were carried out at the start of Diwali, the country's main festival holiday, to maximize the effect. Although an obscure underground Kashmir outfit has claimed responsibility, there is widespread suspicion that the attacks were masterminded by Lashkar-e-Taiba, a Pakistan-based, al Qaeda-linked group labeled a terrorist organization by India and the United States. The attacks occurred on the same day that a New Delhi court had been scheduled to sentence six convicted Pakistani members of the Lashkar-e-Taiba and their Indian associates for involvement in a previous terrorist attack.

The bombers have driven home a political message: India, despite its rising international profile, is powerless to stop terror attacks. By audaciously carrying out bombings right under the nose of the Indian government, the terrorists may also be seeking to rattle foreign investors and undermine India's booming economy. The bombings also have the potential to undercut the credibility of the bureaucrat-turned-prime minister, Manmohan Singh, and constrict his leeway in the ongoing peace process with Pakistan.

Mr. Singh is the latest in a succession of weak, aging prime ministers whose absence of decisive leadership over the years has resulted in the failure to formulate a prudent counterterror strategy backed by firm resolve. Increasingly, terrorism has been treated as a law-and-order issue requiring more policing. To regard terrorism as a law-and-order problem is to do what the terrorists want -- to sap your strength. No amount of security can stop terrorism if the nation is reluctant to go after terrorist cells and networks and those that harbor extremists.

The Indian and U.S. responses to terrorism are a study in contrast. No Americans have been killed by terrorists in the United States since 9/11 because the U.S. military has gone after terrorists overseas. India, in contrast, has suffered its biggest terrorist strikes since 9/11, including attacks on the national Parliament, the Kashmir legislature, the 17th-century Red Fort, three major Hindu temples and several military camps.

Every time India is tested by terror, it characteristically responds by talking tough but doing nothing. New methodology employed by the U.S. Central Intelligence Agency's Office of Terrorism Analysis shows India has the dubious distinction of having the highest number of terrorist incidents.

India has become such a happy hunting ground for terrorists that several major acts of international terror have first been tried out against Indian targets before being replicated in Western democracies. They include attacks on symbols of state authority, midair bombing of a commercial jetliner and coordinated strikes on a city transportation system. In using India as a laboratory, the jihadists have been guided by the logic that if the world's largest democracy can be shaken, so can others.

For instance, the 1988 Pan Am 103 bombing over Lockerbie, Scotland, replicated the midair bombing over the Atlantic of an Air India commercial flight from Canada in 1985. The same Air India bombing technique was also used in the Libyan-orchestrated attack on a UTA jetliner in 1989, which blew up in midair over the Sahara.

The 1993 Bombay bombings, which targeted India's financial institutions and left hundreds dead, have served as a model act of mass terror to international jihadists. The Bombay bombings, according to Indian Defense Minister Pranab Mukherjee, were "eerily similar in modus operandi and targets to 9/11 in their synchronized, serial character and targeting of state and economic symbols."

Parallels have also emerged between the 1999 hijacking to Kandahar, Afghanistan, of Indian Airlines flight IC-814 and the 9/11 hijackings, including the similar use of box-cutters and the terrorists' knowledge of cockpit systems. Long before the London and Madrid bombings, terrorists had staged coordinated attacks on city trains and buses in India.

Transnational terrorists see India as an easy target because it imposes no costs on them and their sponsors.  :lol: If any state strikes deals with terrorists, it not only promotes stepped-up terrorism against its own interests but also creates problems for other nations.

A classic case was India's ignominious surrender, on Dec. 31, 1999, to the demands of hijackers holding passengers aboard an Indian commercial jetliner at Kandahar in Taliban-ruled Afghanistan. In a surrender unparalleled in modern world history, Indian Foreign Minister Jaswant Singh personally chaperoned three jailed terrorists to freedom in a special aircraft. One of the freed terrorists, Ahmed Omar Sheik -- a British citizen of Pakistani descent -- went on to help finance the 9/11 attacks.

For India, the chickens dramatically came home to roost when evidence on the December 2001 attack on parliament revealed the involvement of one of the terrorists hand-delivered in Kandahar -- Masood Azhar, who had formed the Jaish-e-Muhammad group in Pakistan.

What India needs is a concerted, sustained campaign against the forces of terror. But what Prime Minister Singh has offered are only words to comfort the nation. If India fails its latest test, it will only be a matter of time before the terrorists strike again at a place and time of their choice.

Mr. Chellaney is professor of strategic studies at the privately funded Center for Policy Research in New Delhi.

URL for this article:

http://online.wsj.com/article/SB113071253929083681.html

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yep... I've checked it.. its true!

MAybe too earlyt to say but i haf a tiny feeling GOI is onvolved in this.. ..

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yeah ! The Indian Govt has a nasty habit of bombing cinema houses and its own cities occassionally. Weird...innit ?

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Yeah weird <admin-profanity filter activated> khalistani response above.

God damned fanatics. people died instead of feeling sorry for them, started political war fare game.

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Namstang, I am one who wants peace and justice for all regardless of race, religion or background. I abhor all senseless violence including what happened in Delhi. Amongst a hundred other descriptors, I am a "Khalistani". In fact it is the the same passion for justice which directs me to abhor senseless violence and believe in the self-determination of a people. This passion for justice is also a foundation from which I empathize with the pain of a hindu or muslim brother or sister. In your books I am apparantly a "<admin-profanity filter activated> khalistani".

I take exception to your profanity directed at me because of this simple view. This is very relevant to the issue here as it is ill-bred and ill-informed profanity filled hatred which taken to the extreme feeds cycles of violence. Kindly explain why such profanity directed at someone because they simply hold a political belief should be tolerated on this forum.

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Namstang,

For a guy who comes out creating messages containing <admin-profanity filter activated> “khalistani” you sure turned shy very suddenly. I notice that you remain active and prolific in other posts, …awaiting your reply to the above here also Namstang.

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it is funny how india always wants the land taken by pakistan but why it doesn't want the land taken by mighty china?

<<Since I was a direct witness to the 84' riots, I had a dislike for the congress and I never pinned responsibility for that on 'hindus'. Though in 88 I had to change my opinion about the opposing party called BJP/RSS when they destroyed the 'Babri masjid' because I was seeing for the second time a lawless bunch run amock, the country looked truly like a banana republic. My class @ that time had a few muslim girls as students as well and I was pretty shocked when I saw some hindus give 'high-fives' on destruction of babri masjid etc. I mean these are people who rarely talked anything about religion at all, I continued to be shocked when general people were supporting 'small-minded' policies of hindu parties like BJP/RSS.>>

Have you ever analyzed why people still elect such parties. Sikhs were butchered in india and still people elected congress in january 85.

<<Then much later in my life I investigated more deeply on the reasons behind hindu behaviour, it seems that hindus have a deep complex about a lot of things which they maintain to this day. Kashmir was basically a hindu and buddhist area before the Islamists came and converted the local through the threat of sword. Hindus were continually oppressed till the Dogras and Sikhs took control of kashmir. I have had the opportunity to interact with a lot of kashmiri hindus in my life and the one thing that comes across shortly is their lack of self-confidence and spiritlessness. They seem very vulnerable.>>

And how many budhists did shankrchrya killed?

<<Then there are Kashmiri Shias who are as patriotic Indians as anybody, especially because they have examples to the north of their border in Gilgit and Baltistan who are continually being repressed everyday (don't believe me, just google for it & u'll know what I am talkin about). These people do not want anything else than be part of India and people in Gilgit and Baltistan curse the day when the sunni islamic entity called pakistan became the purveyors of their lives.>>

Raju you say you are christain, Do you know how many Naga christains has your beloved india killed?

They want their own land and certainy dont feel any indian in them.

<<So Kashmiri Hindus (who are 30%), Shias, buddhists do not want to be part of anything else but India except for a few sunni muslim perpetually unsatisfied jokers then they got to be dreaming to think that India is going to give up even an inch of territory for their dream of another Islamic state in the subcontinent. India is committed not to let another Islamic entity take root in its neighbourhood whatsoever be the cost.>>

For a few sunni population? check your facts they form 96% in the valley and 46% in ladakh.

The problem with indian community are in these assumption

1. ANybody who attacks indian army is a terrorist.

2. Everywhere in India who want freedom are terrorists.

3. All movements are supported by Pakistan

4. All movements are parrallel to each other.

5. India is an ancient country where there was a consensus between people of one religion and one land.

Propaganda of India

" when it comes to unity of country human rights take a back seat" indian police officer KPS Gill

So a country where ideas that human rights take a back seat and opression takes a front seat are hailed is an indication of mindless slavery. How different is indian system thatn the terrorist system which it claims to be fighting against?

Kashmir problem:

Indian media promotes kashmir problem is parrallel to the punjab. Punjab problem was based on state rights and discrimation caused by the legal system of india especially labelling them as hindus. The the movement for khalistan was labelled as a terrorist movement.

Kashmir was based because pakistan wanted to have regrandum in kashmir(UN resolution 1948)

What so hard in it?

It doesn't matter if they are sunni or shia there should be an open refrandum in kashmir based on ethnic line on who wants to stay with india or not.

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>>check your facts they form 96% in the valley and 46% in ladakh.<<

those are shia bakarwals. If your opinion differs, show me proof.

>>Kashmir was based because pakistan wanted to have regrandum in kashmir(UN resolution 1948)<<

prerequisite of your favorite referendum was DEMILITARISATION of PoK first and IoK second. the pakis never agreed to that and Indians did not follow up. You are again caught up in pakistani propaganda machine that waves UN resolutions at each and sundry.

>>Raju you say you are christain, Do you know how many Naga christains has your beloved india killed?

They want their own land and certainy dont feel any indian in them.<<

Naga's might be christians but they are no saints. They have killed a lot of manipuris, assamese, mizo (christians) in their quest for freedom. They have taken up the gun and GoI can feel free to fight back with a gun.

Though I will admit here that we are not very aware of the situation there. But again I can understand that a conflict economy has taken hold and that is why the situation thrives on.

The Nagas carry M-16 rifles, so you can guess for yourself who supports them.

>>And how many budhists did shankrchrya killed?<<

how many ??

>>" when it comes to unity of country human rights take a back seat" indian police officer KPS Gill<<

I agree. If I have a grouse against the hindus and India tomorrow then I will also have to fight KPS Gill and others. But that is something I take for granted.

Suppose tomorrow a hindu majority govt comes and launches a tirade against the Christians and people like me take up arms, and the hindu govt asks KPS Gill to quell our revolt then I am prepared for that.

I do not blame KPS Gill for that.

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Raju veer, why are you wasting your time? You think a single person here saw any of those spine chilling scenes on TV? You think anyone here cares? So why get all worked up? Lets all try to pray for those affected by this act of barbarity rather than argue among ourselves.

And to the others, what is your point behind posting your stuff in this thread which is about those blasts? Does it have any relevance to this issue? Are you people so insensitive to the death of so many people (is it because almost all were non-Sikhs?) that you are turning this thread into a tug of war? Have some least bit of shame atleast at this point. Can't you see what hatred does? It causes bloody bomb blasts! Learn this lesson from this incident for God sake!

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Mehtab If I offened you in any way , I am sorry and if your comments are directed towards me Directly or indirectly, Let me tell you that it takes guts and spine to get the truth, if we all really care about who has been bombing dfelhi in recent days why is it so hard then to get to him?

Truth is sharper than sword.

If you think I have a stone heart that being a sikh because non sikhs have died I don't care then you are 100% wrong my veer. Your assumptions that we hate non sikhs is far from reality just becasue I say that the saintly GOI is itself first a terrorist.

can't we see the both pictures. even if pakistani have bombed Delhi why do people run away from mourning when GOI's army extrajudically kills thousands in the valley. For them Army is performing there duties but sometime mistakes happen. What more of a inhumane attitude is this. Have we mourned on them?

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Harmeet, it is obvious that you don't care a dime to the 60 people who have died and 200 people who have been injured. For you it is just like 60 flies.

And going by your logic, we would not have to grieve for anyone in this world:

* We would not have to grieve for Americans OR British because of their outrages in Iraq where they have managed to kill as many people in a single year as have died in kashmir in 20 years.

* We will never have to cry for any Germans because of the outrages of Hitler and his army in the second world war.

* Never will a Japanese life be mourned because of their excesses in China, Korea, and South East Asia.

* A vietnamese would never be mourned in America because they killed many americans.

* British lives would never be mourned in India because the brits committed many atrocities here.

..and so on and so forth

let no one mourn for anyone else any more.

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So you do believe that indian army is a hitler.

130295[/snapback]

harmeet singh the way you configured that out shows that you carry something really unique inside your cranium.

Basically you are trying to spin your hatred by putting up a front of logical-souncing arguments, but you just come across as a petty-minded individual very similar to those petty-minded hindus who come up on TV to give elaborate reasonings why muslims were guilty when Gujrat was burning !

The day someone close to you is killed in a terrorist attack, you might change your narrow set of views, till then there is nothing we have to talk about.

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