Rehatnamas

[Gupt_Singh]

this is a continuation from a previous discussion where people were stressing that bhai chaupa singh was anti women.

heres a post from the ever informative balpreet singh from tapoban.org:

The Chaupa Singh rehitnama is interesting on different levels. Chaupa Singh was a Chhiber Brahmin and sometimes he seems to let a bit of a Brahmin bias enter into his work. At other times he is completely egalitarian and condemns caste in all forms. "Naa daekhai Khatree, naa daekhai Shood ki Vaish hai. Sikh Guru kaa daekhai, jaat barn naa daekhai" meaning "One should not look at whether someone is Khatri or Shudra or Vaish. One should look whether someone is a Sikh, one should not look at caste or clan." (77) All my references on this rehitnama come from the Padam book.

The Chaupa Singh rehitnama also contains a number of internal contradictions which indicate that it has been tampered with. One very clear case is the situaton of "saluting the sun". "Guru kaa Sikh praatay outh kay sooraj noo(n) namastay aakh kay, Sikhaa(n) noo Vahiguru Jee kee Fateh bulai" (91) meaning, when a Sikh rises in the morning, he should say "namastay" to the Sun and then Fateh to the Singhs. That's problematic on a number of fronts, seeing as how Sikhs don't revere the sun and the sun hasn't risen when a Sikh gets up (last part of night ie. amrit vela). But the rehitnama later contradicts itself: "Jo sooraj dayvtay noo namaskaar karay, so Tankhaiyaa" (105), meaning, "One who salutes/does namaskaar to the sun is a Tankhaiyaa".

And so I come to the issue of women in the Chaupa Singh rehitnama. This again is a very confus

ed issue. I havn't seen the manuscript you quote which says not to give Paahul to women, but the common Chaupa Singh rehitnama says the following: "Jo Sikh, SikhNee noo(n) khanday dee paahul naa dayvay, so Tankhaiyaa" (105) meaning, "that Sikh who does not give khanday kee paahul to a female-Sikh, is a Tankhaiyaa".

Even in regards to reading Sree Guru Granth Sahib, your references are correct, but the same rehitnama then goes on to say, "Guru kee SikhNee Granth Sahib pothee paRn sikhay..." (107) meaning a female-Sikh should learn how to read Sree Guru Granth Sahib.

Overall, we can learn interesting things from rehitnamas, but we can't consider them to be the authority on rehit. Rehit has been passed down amongst Gursikhs and it's hard to find but it still exists. Only that rehit is authentic which can pass the test of GurbaaNee.

so, conclusion.............i dont think someone would so blatantly contradict themseves.....do u think that rehats have been changed over time? i heard the original bhai chaupa singh rehatnamas remain? etc

[simran_kaur]

Waheguroo Jee Ka Khalsa!

Waheguroo Jee Kee Fateh!!

iqRXw rwg sunih icq lwie ] sunhu lwl so jmpuir jwie ]17]

Those who listen to dirty lyrics and lustful tunes with attention, listen Nand Lal Jee, they will be punished by the angel of death.;

Rehatnama Bhai Nand Laal Jee

Waheguroo Jee Ka Khalsa!

Waheguroo Jee Kee Fateh!!

[Son of Guru Gobind Singh Ji]

vaaheguru ji ka khalsa vaaheguru ji ki fateh

Kalgidhar Sri Mukh Kaheo, Sunoo Sikh Nand Laal Jo Aaveh Meh Panth Mey, Tin Ko Karoun Nehaal |23|

And here's the translation of the pankti (to the best of my ability): The wearer or plume (10th mastar) said: Listen my Sikh (Sikh in this panktee could also mean teaching) Nand Laal, I will bless whosoever comes into my Panth!

some ppl sometimes argue that Bhai Nand Singh Ji Goya (Nand Laal Ji) never took amrit and stayed as practising Muslim even when living with Satguru Gobind Singh Ji Sahib, this is obviously not correct because I am sure one whoever spends time living with our Guru Sahib will be impressed enough to follow the same lifestyle of Guru Sahib and after hearing Guru Sahib make such a strong statement, HOW COULD Bhai Nand Laal Ji just simply ignore it?

hence another hukam: avar oupadhaesai aap n karai || aavath jaavath janamai marai ||

vaaheguru ji ka khalsa vaaheguru ji ki fateh

[moorakh mugadh]

vwihgurU jI kw Kwlsw!

vwihgurU jI kI &iqh!!

[Niranjana]

vaaheguru ji ka khalsa vaaheguru ji ki fateh

Kalgidhar Sri Mukh Kaheo, Sunoo Sikh Nand Laal Jo Aaveh Meh Panth Mey, Tin Ko Karoun Nehaal |23|

And here's the translation of the pankti (to the best of my ability): The wearer or plume (10th mastar) said: Listen my Sikh (Sikh in this panktee could also mean teaching) Nand Laal, I will bless whosoever comes into my Panth!

some ppl sometimes argue that Bhai Nand Singh Ji Goya (Nand Laal Ji) never took amrit and stayed as practising Muslim even when living with Satguru Gobind Singh Ji Sahib, this is obviously not correct because I am sure one whoever spends time living with our Guru Sahib will be impressed enough to follow the same lifestyle of Guru Sahib and after hearing Guru Sahib make such a strong statement, HOW COULD Bhai Nand Laal Ji just simply ignore it?

hence another hukam: avar oupadhaesai aap n karai || aavath jaavath janamai marai ||

vaaheguru ji ka khalsa vaaheguru ji ki fateh

Gur Fateh!

With all due respect, this is only your personal opinion, which I respect, but personally I don't see any evidence to suggest that Bhai N

and Lal did take Amrit (i.e. Nand Singh etc) and certainly all documented accounts indicate that he didn't as well as regular Sikh Sakhia.

Why do we have this evangelistic attitude to have everyone converted by 'baptism'???

Sorry for my foolishness,

SAT SRI AKAAAL!

[Son of Guru Gobind Singh Ji]

vaaheguru ji ka khalsa vaaheguru ji ki fateh

Bhai Sahib even the Mahan Kosh states that Bhai Nand Laal Ji took 'dekheya' from Guru Sahib when he moved to Anandpur Sahib. And as many others have said in the past, how could a non amritthari write the rehit for amrittharis?

Maybe I requote: avar oupadhaesai aap n karai || aavath jaavath janamai marai || ?

And what part of my post makes it seems like my attitude towards anyone is evangelistic?

Bhull chukk maff karni

vaaheguru ji ka khalsa vaaheguru ji ki fateh

[Niranjana]

vaaheguru ji ka khalsa vaaheguru ji ki fateh

Bhai Sahib even the Mahan Kosh states that Bhai Nand Laal Ji took 'dekheya' from Guru Sahib when he moved to Anandpur Sahib. And as many others have said in the past, how could a non amritthari write the rehit for amrittharis?

Maybe I requote: avar oupadhaesai aap n karai || aavath jaavath janamai marai || ?

And what part of my post makes it seems like my attitude towards anyone is evangelistic?

Bhull chukk maff karni

vaaheguru ji ka khalsa vaaheguru ji ki fateh

Gur Fateh!

Ah yes, Mahan Kosh, the classic Singh Sabha text...the first one in fact to mention Bhai Nand Lal, Guru Ji's wives and an array of others as being Amritdharis, Singhs or Kaurs...

interesting how that way missed by all former scholars and historians! I admire Bhai Khan Singh Nabha for his works, however I also ask that you consider the references prior to his writings...I agree that Mahan Kosh is a great work, forming much of the basis for Sikhi today, however it is not entirely in synch with many of its predecessors...

...I don't wish to make this into an argument about authors, so I'll agree to disagree on this point with you and Bhai Sahib, please note the evangelical comment didn't refer to you in particular, hen

ce the use of the word 'we'...

Singh Sahib, please accept my apologies for any offence I may have caused to you, it certainly wasn't intended.

Sat Sri Akal!

[Son of Guru Gobind Singh Ji]

vaaheguru ji ka khalsa vaaheguru ji ki fateh

Bhai Sahib thanks for replying to my post. I'm not really sure if there are any texts out there which clearly prove that Bhai Nand Laal Ji did not take amrit, but if you know of any please let me know of their name and where might be a good place to get it. Also, if you wish to further enlighten me and the sangat on this topic then please start a new thread, my beanti

thanks!

vaaheguru ji ka khalsa vaaheguru ji ki fateh

[Niranjana]

gur Fateh!

Son of Guru Gobind Singh, I trust the PM I sent you adequately addressed your points insofar as I am personally concerned. Again I thank you for the opportunity to correspond with you.

Dear All,

Back to the main topic, the reactions to the rehitnamas of Bhai Chaupa Singh and Bhai Nand Lal that I had posted earlier are interesting.

Without getting involved in any personality issues on the matter, I can see where these reactions are coming from, indeed I too had them, however, my views as to these puratan sources is simply that each document is complete in it's own right for the time period it was written, the location and surrounding socio-politcal events and the particular sangat to which it was addressed......

...the merits of this approach is that it allows, for me at least, one to look at the document in question wihtout any present day emotional/subjective filters...

...I don't personally agree with all that in written in the documents as per their relevance today, however, I'm certain if we try and understand the context in which they were written, the reasoning may become apparent...

...in short, let us not forget that these are rehitnamas, not the Sri Guru, which is timeless and impeccable...the rehitnamas in my personal opinion, included those in vogue today are related to socio-political-economic aspects of the age in which they have been written, hence the changes that may occur in them and the differences we find between them...

...I have de

liberately chosen not to express what I may feel the reasoning behind the apparently obscure rehits to be, as this is largely speculative at present and noting the sensitivities that these matters affect, I'd rather that any individual interested in finding out, does so by applying in addition to the touchstone of Gurbani, the touchstone of historical occurrences and circumstances.

Apologies if any of the foregoing has offended anyone...

GUR BAR AKAAAAAL!

[bismaadh kaur]

waheguru jee ka khalsa! waheguru jee kee fateh!!

woah man....there are soooo many different rehit maryada's...how are u supposed to know which one to follow??

i follow akal thakath maryada as much as possible...i don't eat meat...or none of that...but i always thought of it to be the bare minimum...i read 5 bineeya in the morning..don't eat meat...wear a dastaar (not sure what my opinion about it being kakar is though)...

so how are u supposed to know which one to follow..?? if we all take this from here and that from there...won't every sikh follow a different maryada?? how will we ever be one??

i've noticed, that everyone is for their own maryada...if u dont' follow this u are not a sikh...or u are lesser of a sikh and we can not associate with u...this is something that i've seen...it's kind of getting sad i think...it's our generation that should see beyond all this non-sense of "my maryada is right and urs is wrong..."

anyways that was soooo out of topic...but just something i wanted to bring up...there are so many different jathay bandhiya...so many new ones being made...waheguru jee please just bless us with unity...

but anyhoo...i wanted to post a rehit nama

every sikh, should wake up amrit velay...do ishnaan...and do "waheguru" dha jaap.

SGPC

bhul chuck maaf karna

sandeep kaur