Re-taking Amrit

[TeraRoop11]

Vaahiguroo Jee Kaa Khaalsaa! Vaahiguroo Jee Kee Fateh!

Totally different topic, karokirpa Jeeo.

There is such a concept of sudhaaee. Your friend should go in for peshi, and do as the Panj Piaarae direct him. If he is honest as he must be in this court, then he will receive the gift of Amrit again as Guroo Jee wills, or will not need to. A dear friend of mine went for peshi when he visited Mehta Sahib a few years ago for his 'Taksaal training' {gata love that } and the Panj Piaarae only told him to read certain Baanees a certain amount of times, because he had slipped up in his disciplined daily routine, not done a bajjar kurehit.

Supposedly it was a punishment, but how can it be? Guroo Jee is only telling you to receive His beautiful darshan to redeem yourself. I'd love to be punished like that any day.

If your friend wants to 're-take' Amrit di daat for the sake of Naam drirh or a change of jathas, he can simply go in at the time of an AKJ Amrit Sanchaar {or any other jathas that have Naam Drirh at Amrit Sanchaars, I am not sure of any}, and get Naam Drirh.

As for the difference in Rehit.. a different step a bit further ahead on the path.

Kirpaa karke bhull chuk maaf karnee, Maharaj

Vaahiguroo Jee Kaa Khaalsaa! Vaahiguroo Jee Kee Fateh!

[Guest A Singh.]

"amrit pevoo sadha chir jevoo" Veer Ji asked if there is a "right" way of doing Simran. As per Puratan texts such as Prem Surag Granth, Sau Sakhi and Bhai Mani Singh's Bhagat Ratnavali, there is indeed a Gurmat Jugti for Simran. Implantation of Naam/Naam DriRh can only be given by the Panj Pyare as has been already mentioned on this thread. The Abhilakees repeating the Gurmantar five times (often not even on an individual basis but all together) after the Panj repeat it does not qualify as Naam DriRh.

I think there is a complete consensus that to take Amrit at a Sanchar organised by a different Jathebandi just to become part of this Jathebandi is wrong.

However I believe that if an Amrit Sanchar was not conducted properly (for example, each member of the Panj did not individually give Amrit to the Abhilakee, a stainless steel Batta was used rather than Sarbloh, or if Naam DriRh was not given) I think that there should not be anything stopping the Abhilakee presenting themselves for Pesh.

[randip singh]

Problem is that people (usually Jatha's) have addded their own bits to the amrit ceremont.

The amrit ceremony from Guru Gobind Singh ji times would be very different to todays.

Edited - Such insulting remarks against Amrit are not allowed.

[AK-47]

Please take note of this ...

If he had commited a Bujhar Kurehat and he was in desperate need of re-validating is Amrit then yes. If however, he wanted to try something new, if he was led by others who made out that "their" amrit sanchar was much better than his original one. Or if they stated that in order for him to do Amrit Vela sangat with them he must change and now become a part of "their" jatha, then that is wrong on both his sangats and his part!!

Lets be honest i know many people who have retaken amrit for the above reasons. Whether we like it or not, it is true.

And also sorry but i have never recieved naam dhrir as many people here understand it... hence will i never be able to do simran, bhagti, find and realise vaheguru?! Despite having taken amrit from guru sahib ... Poor poor me.

Amrit is not a game, and small groups of boys going around saying "you should take it from here because its 'wicked' and better than any other amrit" is a disgrace.

And for the doubters who say naam cannot be given by repeating it 5 times... Guru ji can do as he wishes, numbers do not apply, for those who believe in the panj pyareh, if guru sahib gives them mool mantar in this way then guru ji has GIVEN it to them. Guruji can and could give it in the blink of an eye, that is his marji. If the panj represent guru sahib and give u naam, then i would say that you have it.

However, as penji has said this type of discussion will only ever lead to further arguments. Lets see what happens...

[Guest A Singh.]

And also sorry but i have never recieved naam dhrir as many people here understand it... hence will i never be able to do simran, bhagti, find and realise vaheguru?! Despite having taken amrit from guru sahib ... Poor poor me.

Veer Ji, no one claimed that without Naam DriRh you would not be able to do realise Vaheguru. Firstly the vast majority of people do not realise Vaheguru in their lifetime even if they are Rehatdhari, practising Amritdhari. Gursikhs have always told me Mukti does not come easily and we need to be aiming to be Japping Naam Aath Pehar (24 hours) to start to build a Jeevan.

Before receiving Naam DriRh, most people find it extremely hard to Jap Naam at Amritvela for the entire Pehar (3 hours). If you get enough Anand and your concentration allows you to do Simran for the entire Pehar on a daily basis without fail, with little problem and you do not feel you need Naam DriRh, no one is forcing you. I am merely stating that the vast majority of people aren't able to do this and thus I would recommend they receive Naam DriRh. As mentioned in my last post there are Puratan documents that reference this Jugti for Simran.

Secondly I agree with you that Guru Sahib can do anything. But that does not change the fact that Amrit Sanchars today, are different to Puratan Amrit Sanchars. In Puratan Amrit Sanchars Abhilakees were made to sit through Akhand Paaths before hand, and many lost consciousness in the Amrit Sanchar. Their Naam continues automatically for days afterwards.

Nowadays, Abhilakees come out of Amrit Sanchars and there doesn't seem to have been the same effect. We can gloss over the problems with "Guru Sahib will do as he wills" but there is a serious lack of Naam Kamai and Maryada in the modern Sikh Panth. In Amrit Sanchars where stainless steel Batas are used, or Simran instead of Panj Bania is done over the Amrit, there is a Panj and Saroop of Guru Sahib present; yet there are still huge lapses in Maryada going on.

[khalsa mero roop]

Vaaheguroojeekaakhaalsaa, Vaaheguroojeekeefaateh!!

I think having naam dhrih(saas giraas technique) is essential because gursikhs should do naam abyiass with every breath (aath Pehar - 24/7) Furthermore, Punj Pyare can only give you naam, in the form of Guru Gobind Singh Jee. Naam Dhirh is a easier way on attaining Vaaheguroo. Gurmukh's such as Bhai Attar Singh, it had taken them up too 15-20 years to attain naam. These gursikhs were rare jewels, Guru jee himself blessed sant jee with naam. We are so lucky that now we have rehit jeevan gurmukhs doing punj pyare de seva and the ones who don't have naam dhrih, should recieve it and make the most of their bhagti in manas Janam.

Sorry if i offended anyone!

Vaaheguroojeekaakhaalsaa, Vaaheguroojeekeefaateh!!

[All-Info]

Please take note of this ...

If he had commited a Bujhar Kurehat and he was in desperate need of re-validating is Amrit then yes. If however, he wanted to try something new, if he was led by others who made out that "their" amrit sanchar was much better than his original one. Or if they stated that in order for him to do Amrit Vela sangat with them he must change and now become a part of "their" jatha, then that is wrong on both his sangats and his part!!

Lets be honest i know many people who have retaken amrit for the above reasons. Whether we like it or not, it is true.

And also sorry but i have never recieved naam dhrir as many people here understand it... hence will i never be able to do simran, bhagti, find and realise vaheguru?! Despite having taken amrit from guru sahib ... Poor poor me.

Amrit is not a game, and small groups of boys going around saying "you should take it from here because its 'wicked' and better than any other amrit" is a disgrace.

And for the doubters who say naam cannot be given by repeating it 5 times... Guru ji can do as he wishes, numbers do not apply, for those who believe in the panj pyareh, if guru sahib gives them mool mantar in this way then guru ji has GIVEN it to them. Guruji can and could give it in the blink of an eye, that is his marji. If the panj represent guru sahib and give u naam, then i would say that you have it.

However, as penji has said this type of discussion will only ever lead to further arguments. Lets see what happens...

144362[/snapback]

Best reply i have read.

We are discussing on how important it is to jap a style of naam. But maharaj just wants you to jap naam. Simple as! If he gives you something, then you take it and treasure it. Everything is in his hand, by remembering vaheguroo and japing naam on everybreath, you are living within his Hukham.

All maharaj wants us to do, is to Jap naam. How you do it is how you are told to jap it by the Panj Piyaara. Thats the bottom line.

Not to tell others to receive something they havent been given, if they choose to on their own accord then fair play to them, but to tell them to isnt right. As far as i know, the whole point of it is to gupt. Therefore wouldnt make to much sense would it telling someone to take something unless they get exposed to it right?

I know the theory you cant explain to someone how sweet a mango is unles they try it themselves, but you can explain it to them and leave it to them to quench the thrist to try it. But initially you would have to give them some backround?

Think of this, someone ones said this.

Saas giras generally, you tend to make a reasonable amount of volume with your breathing.

In pratan days, the fauj is in the jungle, they trying to keep dealo for a mission. They doing amritvela, japping naam, now they dont want the enemy to know they are there. What do they do?

Go mad saas giras style, or stay gupt and repeat Gurmantr on their breath but in their head? Therefore keeping it gupt and remaining quiet so that they dont get recognised!!??

Sorry if i have offended anyone, i tried not to use any words which may cause offense to anyone...

WJKK WJKF

[khalsa mero roop]

I totally agree with sarbloh_geeza!

[KH4L1$T4N1]

WJKK WJKF

People who "re-take" amrit and do "pesh" for the sake of being part of a jatha make an absolute joke out of amrit and peole who say only "their jatha's" amrit is valid and only allow "their" people into prgrammes are no different from Brahmins. And also naam dhrir/saas giraas is when the naam of the lord is going on with every breath you take. This aint the same thing that only certain jathay can give you.

Sorry if I offended anyone

WJKK WJKF

[AK-47]

Before receiving Naam DriRh, most people find it extremely hard to Jap Naam at Amritvela for the entire Pehar (3 hours). If you get enough Anand and your concentration allows you to do Simran for the entire Pehar on a daily basis without fail, with little problem and you do not feel you need Naam DriRh, no one is forcing you. I am merely stating that the vast majority of people aren't able to do this and thus I would recommend they receive Naam DriRh. As mentioned in my last post there are Puratan documents that reference this Jugti for Simran.

So if at present i am unable to sit there for 3 hours without breaking my concentration, then going pesh to these panj pyareh will solve my problem? Hmmm

Do all the people who recieve this special gift sit there for the full 3 hours?

Im not arguing in the technique or anything of the sort, and yes while you may not be saying that without this technique i cannot find god, there are PLENTY of other people who do. I once heard a guy call people who had not recieved this technique as "half charged batteries". Is that the respect we have for each other?

No i disagree, i think we dont give guru ji enough credit for enough of what does happen, very few of us understand or even try to understand the concept of hukum. anyway that is not what i meant, if we accept that in an amrit sanchar where maryada is kept yet the technique for giving gurmantar and mool mantar is different and that guru ji is present in the form of the panj pyareh ... how then can we say that those attending the amrit sanchar have not recieved naam?

In any case japping naam with every breath is only one stage of simran and bhagti, there are others beyond this. I have ever recieved this technique in any formal way yet i know wat it is and i use it when and where i wish. Is this breaking the maryada that i choose to do simran in this way?

There are hundreds of pangtia in gurbani where guru ji is begging vaheguru for the gift of naam, guru ji will give it to whom he pleases and when he pleases and how he pleases. And lets be clear, naam is not just the repetition of vaheguru, it is keertan, katha, simran, contemplation etc. Gurbani which tells us to repeat his name, also tells us to sing gurbani ie keertan, to talk of him ie katha and to contemplate and meditate on him. Lets not reduce the greatness of naam to just one techinque of doing simran. it is bigger than that.

I think rather than create doubts and fears in other peoples minds by telling them that their amrit wasnt proper or that they havent recieved this tehnique and therefore they cannot do simran properly, etc. we should perhaps do what we were each given ourselves in our own amrit sanchars, very few of us practice what we were told and yet we feel strong enough to go and play with the minds of other singhs and their rehat.

Lets just do what we have to do and get on with it, if your thirsty for naam then guru ji will give it to you. Might take you 20 years or longer but if we have the thirst then maharajh will bless us, and never mind us singing his praises 24-7, we will hear his praises from the very earth and air around us.