Http://www.pokerguru.com/

[kurtas]

If it helps for someone to look at a picture to remember Guru Ji, whats wrong with that? Some people find it easier 2 focus on an image at first... because focusing on Waheguru whom has no form, is quite difficult for beginners.  I wonder whether u guys have heard Bhagat Dhana Jis sakhi, whoms Bani is in Sri Guru Granth Sahib Ji.

151828[/snapback]

Sure have heard of Bhagat Dhana Ji and his sakhi. That still does not mean we ignore the teachings of our Guru Ji.

Just remember that our Guru Ji also knew about the sakhi of Bhagat Dhanna Ji and also if our Guru Ji felt that using pictures to focus on Waheguru was ok then they would have said so.

151834[/snapback]

so kurtas gotta question,

so everything in sikhi is black and white ?

151837[/snapback]

Namstang Ji

Should we question the teachings of our Guru Ji ?

I think not afterall who could be more wiser than our Guru Ji ?

Maybe you are wise enough to question these teachings. I am not, so I will never question them.

[ParwinderSingh]

"You think sri guru gobind singh used this waha bi approach of "lets burn pictures" because people may idol worship those pictures- NO

He instead gave gyan to sangat and told them, purpose behind the art. 68 Poets, artist from different backgrounds in Guru Maharaj darbar is an classic example of Guru Maharaj appreciation towards Arts, calligarphy, poetries."

guru sahib never commissioned paintings of the gurus.  poetry and calligraphy are different.  shabad guru is written in peotry and calligraphy is a form of writing.  I'm not a fanatic sikh, trust me on that one, i'm just not into idol worship as most sikhs are.  you keep mentioning respect, come on man, no one has more respect for idols than hindus, they even give milk to idols.  why does SGGs knock on hindu idols when we have our own idols and proclaim that it is respect and pyaar.  99.99% sikhs bow to pictures.  deny it all you want on the internet. 

and i'm sorry but those pics of the gurus are so cartoonish they are ridiculous.  If you respect those pictures so much i bet you that you can pick up the latest indian or punjabi news paper and you can see your guru's picture on one page and half-naked karishma kapoor on the next, what about respect now? 

these pictures are worthless.  There are over a billion muslims in the world inspired by the quran, and sikhs like you think these pictures are an inspiration to sikhs.  come on man. 

where is the picture of bhagat ravidas, bhaghat kabir or sheikh kabir?  guru arjun dev ji has the most baani in SGGS ji, where is his pic?  we all say the guru's were one jot, well why the pics then?  gurbaani says baani is the saroop of God so what's up with the pics.  I don't believe in a fanatic version of sikhi i just think you believe in the hollow and hypocritical version of sikhi which falls apart in every argument and that is why sikh girls convert to religions with rules which at least are consistent and not self-contradictory.

151785[/snapback]

most ppl use the pictures for decorative pruposs....theres isnt anything wron with that. the problem is ppl who worship them as u pointed out..........but still i think it is disrespectful that anything related to sikhi in the slightest shud be stuck on a gambling website implying that they are into that kind of thing.......... next time theyl go a step further...........

[ParwinderSingh]

That quote from the Rehat Maryada says nothing about disapproving of pictures of the Gurus, it specifically says that bowing / worshipping the pictures is wrong.  It would have to say that if it said that pictures were bad in the first place.

The issue boils down to respect, I think.  By taking a picture that is supposed to represent Guru Nanak and placing cards in the pictures hand to me is similar to someone taking a Khanda and hanging, say, panties from the points.  I would be offended by that disrespect to an obvious Sikh symbol.  That doesn't mean I worship the khanda, or that I am going to worship the khanda.  I just don't like to see it disrespected.

My two cents,

Ishna.

151767[/snapback]

well said

[N30S1NGH]

If it helps for someone to look at a picture to remember Guru Ji, whats wrong with that? Some people find it easier 2 focus on an image at first... because focusing on Waheguru whom has no form, is quite difficult for beginners.  I wonder whether u guys have heard Bhagat Dhana Jis sakhi, whoms Bani is in Sri Guru Granth Sahib Ji.

151828[/snapback]

Sure have heard of Bhagat Dhana Ji and his sakhi. That still does not mean we ignore the teachings of our Guru Ji.

Just remember that our Guru Ji also knew about the sakhi of Bhagat Dhanna Ji and also if our Guru Ji felt that using pictures to focus on Waheguru was ok then they would have said so.

151834[/snapback]

so kurtas gotta question,

so everything in sikhi is black and white ?

151837[/snapback]

Namstang Ji

Should we question the teachings of our Guru Ji ?

I think not afterall who could be more wiser than our Guru Ji ?

Maybe you are wise enough to question these teachings. I am not, so I will never question them.

151840[/snapback]

No where, in Guru Maharaj teaching, pictures are encouraged or discouraged. Yes idol worship are discouraged. However, art(kalan) in Sikhi is quite welcome. Fact - 68 poets, artist stayed in Guru Maharaj darbar and appreciated.

You want to take things further , lets take things further, lets see the logic behind black and white sikhi:

Ok you want to ban the pictures because people are vulnerable to idolize them? ok fine ban them.

People are also vulnerable to "idiolize" - guru maharaj relics, shastars, mala's, chola, nishan sahibs, rumale of sri guru granth sahib, chaur sahib(in fact i have seen people bowing their head on chaur sahib), nagara, ganga sagar( i have seen lot of people matha taiking to ganga sagar when ganga sagar was shown in gurdwaras in toronto )????

You want to ban them too just because few handful of people are ignorant cannot see shabad guru is higher? This is my freind, is a extremely flaw approach can lead to talibanstic approach of sikhi, if promoted who knows? we will have your own set of taliban destroying anything and everything which looks idol to them.

Now coming back to the pictures, i see no difference between pictures and the items i have mentioned above. As i already said, pictures draws out inspirational sakhiya's, and virtues of our guru sahiban shown in act of picture (art expression) of an true artist.

You guys are against pictures period and wants to ban them or burn them. if you were against certain potrayal of picture or specific picture your post will make sense but since you are against ideology of pictures(artistic way of parchar fetched from janamsakhiyas, and virtues of guru) full stop, i found your approach to be flawed.

my last post on this.

[msjskb]

Why do we need to spend time discussing this issue?

Regardless of whether the picture is Guru Ji or not, it is not right to allow people to use the paintings in a disrespectful way.

We must remember the paintings are good to show our kids something visual, obviously no one really believes that is what Guru Nanak Dev Ji looked like.

We have Sri Guru Granth Sahib Ji to worship, we don't need pictures.

Any fool who gave the website abuse needs to think twice in future. It does not give a good example of a Sikh.

Lets stop discussing silly issues.

Be constuctive. It seems the site has taken the pictures off. So end of topic maybe?

[mann_kaum_layee_qurbaan]

namstang i respect your devotion but you keep comparing two different things. Ok shashtars of guru sahibs:

first of all we know that they REALLY are the shashtars of guru sahib whereas the pictures are somebody's imagination. Ganga sagar was really handled by our guru in human form, pictures are not real pictures of our gurus. Also bowing to shashtars is a part of gatka and shashtar vidya, a sikh martial art form. you are comparing things which really belonged to our gurus with something which is someone's imaginary thoughts! come on man, i think you are thinking in black and white terms. If i paint a pic of your mom and dad without ever meeting them would you put it on your wall at home? just look at what you are comparing, on one hand is a swrd held by dasam pita and on the other is a picture some guy just made up. i don't know how you compare the two.....

"No where, in Guru Maharaj teaching, pictures are encouraged or discouraged. Yes idol worship are discouraged."

that is self contradictory my friend. pictures are neither discouraged or encouraged put idol worship is forbidden. Ok pictures are not idol worship? Do sikhs not consider our Gurus as the saroop of God? that's what they tell people anyways, so how do you paint a picture of waaheguru's saroop? i'm telling you, these hypocrisies make sikhs look silly when talking to hindus and muslims. trust me, in our SSA these things come up and sikhi just looks like a hindu faith trying to be different. we held acamp at our guru ghar and kids were like we have ten gods cause they see the pictures with ten duded with beards on their walls at home....

also if pictures make people concentrate on God, then no sikh should ever tell hindus that idol worship is wrong cause they are just concentrating on God through idols like sikhs do with pictures.

honestly, i now agree with the indian gov't and india's constitution which says sikhs are hindus. maybe if the sikhs stop being hindus they would consider changing the hindu marriage act for sikhs etc but for now i think it describes sikhs pretty well. looking at sikhs, they pray at vaishno devi, pray to pictures, put toof or incense in front of guru pics, many sikh women in punjab observe karva chauth and wear sandoor...so how can you argue.

[Harjit_S_Banga]

Why do we need to spend time discussing this issue?

Regardless of whether the picture is Guru Ji or not, it is not right to allow people to use the paintings in a disrespectful way.

We must remember the paintings are good to show our kids something visual, obviously no one really believes that is what Guru Nanak Dev Ji looked like.

We have Sri Guru Granth Sahib Ji to worship, we don't need pictures.

Any fool who gave the website abuse needs to think twice in future. It does not give a good example of a Sikh.

Lets stop discussing silly issues.

Be constuctive. It seems the site has taken the pictures off. So end of topic maybe?

151856[/snapback]

I second the above thought that we should CLOSE this topic NOW as it going way off the line....Pardon me for ignorance....OPEN new topic to discuss the issues in the forum....PLEASE!!!

Stay in chardikalaaaaaaaaaa jio

MOD NOTE : Closed per above comments. Thank you.