Http://www.pokerguru.com/

[ms514]

Sat Sri Akal:

"I wonder what's insecure sikh wahabism is going to do next..."

Tis thine brother that you doth slander...be it not so, for thy father shall not be pleased with thee...

[ParwinderSingh]

WJKK WJKF!!

THE pic has been removed!! thats wikid.............. peaceful protests go along way

[kurtas]

i think this issue has to be brought up in akal takhat one day and be cleared once and for all. i hope at the end we have a huge bon-fire and burn all guru pics and believe in our real guru, shabad guru like guru Nanak dev ji intended.

just think about what you said here,

burn all the guru's picture which shows virtues or history in one way or another???

it's not the pictures of guru's in artistic way that panth is vulnerable, panth is vulnerable to this fanatical approach of burning artistic pictures of guru's which shows virtues, history. If you can't see those virtues or history in the artistic drawing, sketches, pictures....don't blame the pictures, blame your blindness(agyanta)..just calm down mate, may be some day by blessing of guru when your debdristi opens (vision gets free from tunell) then you will know each artistic pictures have history, virtues behind it(directly fetched from janamsakhis) which artist shares. Art is a kalan itself, art can tell priceless words which this tongue cannot.

You think sri guru gobind singh used this waha bi approach of "lets burn pictures" because people may idol worship those pictures- NO

He instead gave gyan to sangat and told them, purpose behind the art. 68 Poets, artist from different backgrounds in Guru Maharaj darbar is an classic example of Guru Maharaj appreciation towards Arts, calligarphy, poetries.

I wonder what's insecure sikh wahabism is going to do next, idea of lets burn the pictures already floating in the air.. what next? - lets throw all the guru's maharaj shastars, relics, malas and so on forth oh lets throw them all out, didn't you know people might start worshipping them? what type of fussar(empty) approach is that?

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Do you think Guru Gobind Singh Ji encouraged idol worship - NO

These pictures lead to idol worship whether you like it or not. This is contrary to the teachings of our Guru Ji. If anything encourages someone to go against the Rehat Maryada then there is nothing wrong with banning such items. Of cause some people like to pick and mix when it comes to the Rehat Maryada.

(extract from Rehat Maryada)

(f) Pressing the legs of the cot on which the Guru Granth Sahib is installed, rubbing nose against walls and on platforms, held sacred, or massaging these, placing water below the Guru Granth Sahib’s seat, making or installing statues, or idols inside the gurduwaras, bowing before the picture of the Sikh Gurus or elders - all these are irreligious self-willed egotism, contrary to gurmat (the Guru’s way).

As for the Shasthar of our Guru Ji, sure they should not be worshipped Yes they form part of our unique heritage and history but these Sobha Singh pop art images certainly do not. Not all of us need pictures to be inspired, it is the insecure who want to replicate the hindu dharam that need pictures.

[Ishna]

That quote from the Rehat Maryada says nothing about disapproving of pictures of the Gurus, it specifically says that bowing / worshipping the pictures is wrong. It would have to say that if it said that pictures were bad in the first place.

The issue boils down to respect, I think. By taking a picture that is supposed to represent Guru Nanak and placing cards in the pictures hand to me is similar to someone taking a Khanda and hanging, say, panties from the points. I would be offended by that disrespect to an obvious Sikh symbol. That doesn't mean I worship the khanda, or that I am going to worship the khanda. I just don't like to see it disrespected.

My two cents,

Ishna.

[kurtas]

That quote from the Rehat Maryada says nothing about disapproving of pictures of the Gurus, it specifically says that bowing / worshipping the pictures is wrong.  It would have to say that if it said that pictures were bad in the first place.

The issue boils down to respect, I think.  By taking a picture that is supposed to represent Guru Nanak and placing cards in the pictures hand to me is similar to someone taking a Khanda and hanging, say, panties from the points.  I would be offended by that disrespect to an obvious Sikh symbol.  That doesn't mean I worship the khanda, or that I am going to worship the khanda.  I just don't like to see it disrespected.

My two cents,

Ishna.

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Why did our Guru Ji forbid paintings of their images during their lifetimes ? They did not want such images turning into items of worship / reverance. Of cause we all know better and can come up with a thousand excuses to go against the teachings of our Guru Ji to justify our collection of these Sobha Singh images.

This whole pokerguru issue shows that people were offended. To be offended they must have some reverance towards the image. If they have reverance then they are not following the teachings of Guru Ji. If the teachings had been followed and Sobha Singh reprimanded and punished for his abuse then we would not be facing this issue today.

At Gurdwara in India we have metal idols of Guru Nanak Dev Ji being sold. This is just the start, tomorrow some <banned word filter activated> will make a 10ft high idol of Guru Nanak Dev Ji, then we will say balle balle look at that its very impressive lets put it in a Gurdwara. After a few days you will get people coming and bowing to the idol. Then someone will say lets add a few bells (mandir style) and put xmas lights around the idol.

We need to draw a line and decide which side of the fence we sit on, either we follow the teachings of Guru Ji or we dont. There is no room for deviation and exceptions.

If we do not want to follow the teachings of Guru Ji then lets push ourselves to the limits on the teachings of Guru Ji. lets start buying meat from the jewish kosher butchers, getting electrolysis hair removal, drinking low alcohol beer etc etc. After all our Guru Ji did not specifically mention we could not do these exact things. Guru Ji did not say dont drink real ale made in Yorkshire so that should be ok and within the limits of Rehat. Gur Ji did not say dont drink barcadi breezers so that should be ok.

It is sad to see the lack of respect towards the teaching of our Guru Ji. When we go to school and the teachers teach us the sound of letters and how to read we accept this without any questioning. But the teachings of our Guru Ji are such that we flout them and then make up rubbish to justify our violations of their teachings.

[Balbir Singh]

Satsriakal to all!

It is possible one day that pictures of the Gurus, which are anyway false, are banned.

What will happen with the pictures of Shaheeds which are true?

Balbir Singh

[mann_kaum_layee_qurbaan]

"You think sri guru gobind singh used this waha bi approach of "lets burn pictures" because people may idol worship those pictures- NO

He instead gave gyan to sangat and told them, purpose behind the art. 68 Poets, artist from different backgrounds in Guru Maharaj darbar is an classic example of Guru Maharaj appreciation towards Arts, calligarphy, poetries."

guru sahib never commissioned paintings of the gurus. poetry and calligraphy are different. shabad guru is written in peotry and calligraphy is a form of writing. I'm not a fanatic sikh, trust me on that one, i'm just not into idol worship as most sikhs are. you keep mentioning respect, come on man, no one has more respect for idols than hindus, they even give milk to idols. why does SGGs knock on hindu idols when we have our own idols and proclaim that it is respect and pyaar. 99.99% sikhs bow to pictures. deny it all you want on the internet.

and i'm sorry but those pics of the gurus are so cartoonish they are ridiculous. If you respect those pictures so much i bet you that you can pick up the latest indian or punjabi news paper and you can see your guru's picture on one page and half-naked karishma kapoor on the next, what about respect now?

these pictures are worthless. There are over a billion muslims in the world inspired by the quran, and sikhs like you think these pictures are an inspiration to sikhs. come on man.

where is the picture of bhagat ravidas, bhaghat kabir or sheikh kabir? guru arjun dev ji has the most baani in SGGS ji, where is his pic? we all say the guru's were one jot, well why the pics then? gurbaani says baani is the saroop of God so what's up with the pics. I don't believe in a fanatic version of sikhi i just think you believe in the hollow and hypocritical version of sikhi which falls apart in every argument and that is why sikh girls convert to religions with rules which at least are consistent and not self-contradictory.

[gss]

If it helps for someone to look at a picture to remember Guru Ji, whats wrong with that? Some people find it easier 2 focus on an image at first... because focusing on Waheguru whom has no form, is quite difficult for beginners. I wonder whether u guys have heard Bhagat Dhana Jis sakhi, whoms Bani is in Sri Guru Granth Sahib Ji.

[kurtas]

If it helps for someone to look at a picture to remember Guru Ji, whats wrong with that? Some people find it easier 2 focus on an image at first... because focusing on Waheguru whom has no form, is quite difficult for beginners.  I wonder whether u guys have heard Bhagat Dhana Jis sakhi, whoms Bani is in Sri Guru Granth Sahib Ji.

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Sure have heard of Bhagat Dhana Ji and his sakhi. That still does not mean we ignore the teachings of our Guru Ji.

Just remember that our Guru Ji also knew about the sakhi of Bhagat Dhanna Ji and also if our Guru Ji felt that using pictures to focus on Waheguru was ok then they would have said so.

[N30S1NGH]

If it helps for someone to look at a picture to remember Guru Ji, whats wrong with that? Some people find it easier 2 focus on an image at first... because focusing on Waheguru whom has no form, is quite difficult for beginners.  I wonder whether u guys have heard Bhagat Dhana Jis sakhi, whoms Bani is in Sri Guru Granth Sahib Ji.

151828[/snapback]

Sure have heard of Bhagat Dhana Ji and his sakhi. That still does not mean we ignore the teachings of our Guru Ji.

Just remember that our Guru Ji also knew about the sakhi of Bhagat Dhanna Ji and also if our Guru Ji felt that using pictures to focus on Waheguru was ok then they would have said so.

151834[/snapback]

so kurtas gotta question,

so everything in sikhi is black and white ?