Spirits, Curses And Superstitions

[Manchester_Sikhi]

Sangat Ji,

I need your assistance.

I'm a scientist by nature and as such do not readily accept the notion of Spirits and Evil Spirits and Curses.

However, I have spoken to some Amritdharis who vehemently belive in spirits and say their relatives are cursed or have been cursed. They also have said they have 'cured' people by carrying our a Jap of Guru Nanaks', and have seen spirits leaving the bodies of these people.

I would like to know if, within Sikhism, we accept evil spirits exist and can take over people. I would also like to know if we belive in curses and that people are able to curse us.

I'm looking for quotes from GGSJ as opposed to your viewpoints because if its stated in GGSJ then I will accept they may exist.

Thanks for your help!

[crayzy]

well yea they do,

I don't have time right now for quotes - I'll give em later.

[Manchester_Sikhi]

Ok crazyzy...

Why does it say in he Reht Maryada that we:

Section 4: Article XVI

The Guru's tenets are:

"Not believing in caste or descent untouchabililty, Magic spells, incantation, omens, auspicious times, days and occasions, influence of stars, horoscopic dispositions,"

"Not believing in or according any authority to Muslim seers, Brahmins' holiness, soothsayers, clairvoyants, oracles" <<< which i think includes those Sikhia who claim to be able to drive out evil spirts or remove curses

Also:

"While on his way to Talwandi Sabo Guru Gobind Singh camped here for the night outside the mausoleum of the Muslim saint Haji Rattan. The tomb keepers tried to dissuade the Guru from sleeping here with the excuse that the place was haunted. Since the Guru neither believed in tombs or ghosts he spent the night here to show the people that such superstitions were not followed by Sikhs."

take from: http://www.sikhs.org/gurdwaras/guru10-24.htm

OK...so it's still not too clear.

This is probably one of the those one that wont clear up eaisly.

I've seen people say if you Jap parts of Maharaji no ghosts will come near you...

But then those people who do Jap for that purpose, arent they using Maharaji as a incantation....against the RM....and what of Guru Gobind Singh Jis comments...??

Can someone explain the apparant contradiction in the RM and GGSJ?

[London Singh]

Yep Manchester_Sikhi, I was also brought up not to believe in ghosts and evil spirits but recently have come across viewpoints that they do exist. However, this "new information" is kind of irrelevant as Waheguru is all powerful and by meditating on Waheguru nothing can harm you:

thaathee vaao n lagee paarabreham saranaaee ||

The hot wind does not even touch one who is under the Protection of the Supreme Lord God.

chougiradh hamaarai raam kaar dhukh lagai n bhaaee ||1||

On all four sides I am surrounded by the Lord's Circle of Protection; pain does not afflict me, O Siblings of Destiny. ||1||

So the rehat maryada you have quoted paaji isn't at odds with the existence of such paraphernalia - even if they do exist, we simply must not divert our concentration from Waheguru towards them.

Great website btw! Although I don't know what most of it means :lol: , it sounds impressive!

[crayzy]

its not a contradiction - in this case the word 'believe' means we are not supposed to use them.

psu pRyq muGd pwQr kau qwrY ]

pas praeth mughadh paathhar ko thaarai ||

Even beasts, ghosts and the stone-hearted are saved.

srb rog kw AauKdu nwmu ]

sarab rog kaa aoukhadh naam ||

The Naam is the panacea, the remedy to cure all ills.

mÚ 5 ]

ma 5 ||

Fifth Mehl:

pryqhu kIqonu dyvqw iqin krxYhwry ]

paraethahu keethon dhaevathaa thin karanaihaarae ||

The ghost has been transformed into an angel by the Creator Lord.

sBy isK aubwirAnu pRiB kwj svwry ]

sabhae sikh oubaarian prabh kaaj savaarae ||

God has emancipated all the Sikhs and resolved their affairs.

inMdk pkiV pCwiVAnu JUTy drbwry ]

ni(n)dhak pakarr pashhaarrian jhoot(h)ae dharabaarae ||

He has seized the slanderers and thrown them to the ground, and declared them false in His Court.

nwnk kw pRBu vfw hY Awip swij svwry ]2]

naanak kaa prabh vaddaa hai aap saaj savaarae ||2||

Nanak's God is glorious and great; He Himself creates and adorns. ||2||

[Singhstah]

all these things are real. however as sikhs we dont use curses or any of those evil things, and we are also in complete protection from them if we jap naam. Ghosts are real, gurbani tells us this, as shown in the quotes shared by crayzy ji. Id also like to share that ghosts and spirits are not the same thing, the spirit is wat we all have inside of us, and is what survives after the body dies. However a ghost is actually a lifeform. a post by bhai sahib kulbir singh ji on tapoban explains this quite well:

Ghost and Aatma is not the same thing. Ghost or Bhoot is a jooni (life form) just like other life forms are. It is said that the jaama or jooni of a bhoot is made of 3 tatts (elements) as opposed to 5 tatts for most other joonis. Gurbani clearly says that Pret or Bhoot is a jooni:

Anth kaal jo mandir simrai, aisee chinta meh je marae|| Pret joon val val autarae||

(If during the last moments one thinks of one’s house and dies in this thought, such person gets the life form of a ghost in the next life).

Aatma on the other hand, in its purest form is totally free of all sins, sorrows, pains and worldly happiness.

Kulbir Singh

actually if u search on tapoban for ghosts and the like, youll find some really interesting discussions.

oh yeah, read this too http://tapoban.org/Evil%20Spirits%20Flee%2...%20Gursikhs.pdf its AMAZING

bhull chukk maaf

[crayzy]

also read this from Sikhawareness

Suleman was a pir and saw his daughter and a sadhu together romantically while he was in samaadhi and got angry and went looking for the sadhu to kill him. He couldnt find the sadhu and when he got home he burnt his daughter and a short while later his wife died of grief.

then he started doing bad things for money as he had ridhia sidhia.

after he died he was taken by jamdoot to dharamrai - took one year, beating him all the way. He describes what dharamrai looks like - 'beard white like the sun, skin red like molten copper'. Dharamraja tells him he has to go to kunbi narak until he learns his lesson, and then has to be a pret for a thousand years.

Suleman asks how he will get mukti - Dharamrai says that God will come to earth in the form of 10 Gurus, after some time when Sulemans sentence is finished there will Guru Nanak Dev ji's sant in Rara Sahib who will give him mukti.

Then he asks Dharamrai where the sadhu who slept with his daughter is as he wants revenge. Dharamrai says that he will be a boy called manmohan singh and you will recognise him when you see him. You can beat him, but you cant kill him, he will lead you to Sant Isher Singh.

Suleman says he met Guru Nanak Dev Ji in mecca medina, where he was told he had to do what Dharamraja told him. He also says that he met Guru Gobind Singh Ji but not in detail - he was questioned by someone and suleman answered "I have already told you I met him."

Suleman says that people used to to pooja at his grave (muslims), and one day a boy urinated on the grave, suleman looked at him and recognised the sadhu he has been wiating for. He started attacking him, until he remembered Dharamrajas word, and let him go, when the boy became uncoinscious. The villagers quickly came and got him, doctors found nothing wrong - didnt know what had happened.

At first he cam to Hapur in someone elses body and then started speakin in manmohan singh, who was in Maharaji's sangat.

Maharaji found someone to have suleman as a baby that both suleman and the family agreed to and suleman went. First he refused to go to someones house coz they were rich, then when he agreed to this family he said that he would go but wouldnt sell newsparers ( that was his father to be's work)

A few weeks later Suleman turned up at Rara Sahib again, Maharaji asked him why he broke his word, Suleman said he didnt break it - it takes six months for the human to form and then he will go back because the pain was too much in the womb - written in Anand Sahib paat as well (mata ke udar meh pratipal kare).

Maharaji said ok, Suleman took Manmohans singhs body again and started living in rara sahib sangat as sevadar.

This is when one of those recordings was made that is on the net. This was made by balwant singh, and the transcript is also in the book.

This conversation you've heard on the recording. He seems a nice enough guy

7 months later Suleman was still there, Maharaji called him and again asked why he broke his word, Suleman said he was sorry, but wanted see Maharajis birthday before he went. Maharaji said no - the baby was ready.

Suleman replied that Mahraji could do anything, and that he could the delay the birth, Maharaji agreed.

11 months after his mother got pregnant, Suleman was born, after Maharaji refused another extension - saying it would to painful for the mother to wait any longer. He left his nishan on manmohan singh - his tongue was all spotty.

For 4 years after he was born Suleman could remember all that had happened to him - he also described what kunbi narak was like and what people had to do - some people were being burnt again and again - didnt really understand that bit coz his urdu is strange.

Theres a couple other stories about prets and how they got mukti through saptah paat, and extracts from Gurbani about pret/bhoot etc.

He described how prets possess people - 'like how tissue sticks to sweat on a body, the pret envelopes the human'. Prets are attracted to the smell given off by people who eat meat, eggs and drink alcohol, because their food is blood and meat - which they eat through animals.

the recording can be downloaded from here

LINK

[Wicked Warrior]

Woah that was some powerful reading there.

Then again, Stings Desert Rose was playing in the background too

I have read biography of Baba Harnam Singh Ji, which also dealt with ghosts/evil spirits. Baba Ji, whilst doing paath, drove out the ghosts.

I have also heard of a place in (punjab?) India that used to be full od Ghosts. Guru Nanak Dev Maharaj apparently went to that place and drove out many ghosts and evil spirits.

anyone know where it is?

[akjforever]

Ghosts and such they do exist, there is no question. Since these things bring evil with them they can not harm us if we read Gurbani and do Naam Japna. Otherwise if you don't these things then they can hurt you. But if you have Gurbani and Naam Simran inside of you, you got nothing to worry about. So I think many have the mindset that if they can't see something with their eyes it doesn't exist. This is a very naive notion because there a hidden world which we can not see, the Spirtual realm. If you are spirtually blessed then you can see that world as well. I remember my mother telling a story once. A Baba Jee came to visit us and we were having a kirtan at our house that day but the room in which were going have the kirtan was not setup yet. The Baba Ji went for a walk and as he was walking he began running at full speed all of a sudden. He was an old person, so seeing him run at full speed was something and as he got the Kirtan room, he told my mom to quickly put white sheets on the ground so that the sangat could sit, they were waiting for the kirtan. But no one was in the room. He said that there are many souls waiting for the kirtan to start so they should have a proper place to sit....

Bul Chuk Khema Karnee Ji..

:lol:

[ms514]

Sat Sri Akal:

gur maerai sa(n)g sadhaa hai naalae ||

The Guru is always by my side.

Guru Arjan Dev Ji, Raag Aasaa, 394).

If you are a Sikh of the Guru, what you worrying about eh?