Bhagat Ravidass / Guru Ravidass?

[mann_kaum_layee_qurbaan]

Guru Sahib blessed us with bhagat Ravidas ji's experience with akaal purakh through his words. Bhagat ravidas ji's baani is in guru granth shaib and guru sahib himself refers to ravidas ji as bhagat. as a sikh, if guru nanak called him a BHAGAT, and not guru, then no sikh can assume otherwise.

other people, non-sikhs, can call ravidas ji, guru, god, avtar, whatever, guru sahib has clearly called ravidas ji a bhagat.

peace.

[TheVampire]

IMHO the question of whether Ravidas Jee was a Guru or a bhagat is not relevant.

The Shabads that make up Guru Granth Sahib Jee is our Guru.

So that means all the shabads whether composed by Guru Nanak Jee or Ravidas Jee = Guru.

Shabads are the thoughts of Guru Nanak Jee/ Ravidas Jee = Guru.

Everything in Guru Granth Sahib Jee = Guru.

Therefore we are saying thoughts of Ravidas Jee = Guru.

However some are saying, thoughts of Ravidas Jee = Guru but Ravidas Jee himself does not = Guru.

So what makes a Guru - the body frame or the teachings?

[apne]

... then Bhai Mardana too is our Guru. And Shabads of Guru Nanak are not 'thoughts' they are 'what he recieved from Parbrahm Parmeshwar'

[TheVampire]

So who did Ravidas Jee receive his thoughts from?

And what about 'Dhur kee Bani' - or does it only apply to a part of Guru Granth Sahib Jee?

[apne]

So who did Ravidas Jee receive his thoughts from?

That is a million dollar question!

[manvir s]

I do not believe that there was a Guru Ravidass. Gurgadi Passed from Guru to Guru and as it was not passed to Bhagat Ravidaas then i do not belive there is a Guru Ravidass. Dont get me wrong i respect his teachings if they were deemed to be worthy of Sri Guru Granth Sahib Ji but he did not ever recieve the place of Guruship so no. There was no Guru Ravidass but Bhagat Ravidass. I hope everyone agrees.

[Singhstah]

those particular shabads of dhan dhan bhagat ravidas sahib ji form part of Satguroo Ji, however we haven't really got a right to tell those who follow ONLY bhagat ravidas sahib ji not to call him their Guroo, as for them he as a person is the Guroo. If someone is as a Sikh calling Bhagat Sahib Ji a Guru, then there are problems.

[N30S1NGH]

those particular shabads of dhan dhan bhagat ravidas sahib ji form part of Satguroo Ji, however we haven't really got a right to tell those who follow ONLY bhagat ravidas sahib ji not to call him their Guroo, as for them he as a person is the Guroo. If someone is as a Sikh calling Bhagat Sahib Ji a Guru, then there are problems.

There is no problem if upasak of ravidas call or label bhagat ravidas ji as their guru or gurdev as guru word orginated from sanskrit and has many context. Guru term itself is not bought by tat khalsa or sikhs..sikhs have no ownership of guru term itself which came from sanskrit...yes sikh every right and have ownership and have right to defend guru's term context within gurmat sikhi framework.

There is a panthic problem when sangat from ravidas asharams think guru/bhagat ravidas is higher than or equate with sri guru granth sahib ji maharaj parkash saroop either in misguidance or with malicous intent...these are two different issues and must be understood before having knickers in twist.

[Singhstah]

^I said pretty much the same thing, i actually agree with you on this one.

[N30S1NGH]

sorry bro, should have read your post properly instead of jumping the bandwagon or getting my own knicker in a twist.. opps.