Gender Inequality In Sikhi

[Jo Kicch Hai So Tera Waheguru]

Waheguru Ji Ka Khalsa

Waheguru Ji Ki Fateh

Its so saddening that there is so much inequality in terms of gender that still shines through in the Sikh Panth today - honestly. Why the marginalisation of women so much? Our history is filled with so many great sikh women figures who fought even braver than their Singh counterparts.

Sikhi is a religion of equality as clearly stamped by Guru Nanak Dev Ji. How can we even begin to call ourselves Sikh when we haven't even understood the most basic rule. How can we even do sewa when we exclude our sisters?

As Guru Ji says in Asa di Vaar:

Awpu gvwie syvw kry qw ikCu pwey mwnu ]

aap guvaae saevaa kurae thaa kish paaeae maan

But if he eliminates his self-conceit and then performs service, he shall be honored.

so ikau mMdw AwKIAY ijqu jMmih rwjwn ]

so kio mundhaa aakheeai jith junmehi raajaan

So why call her bad? From her, kings are born.

Women not being allowed to do kirtan in darbar sahib, serving as the panj pyare during Amirt Sanchaar, carrying of Guru Granth Sahib Ji to name just a few.

May Guru Ji do kirpa and remove this veil from us for the chardikala of the Khalsa Panth

Bhul chuk maaf for any mistakes

[_K_]

:wub: tru

[S1ngh]

It is true.. BUT It's the duty of WOMEN to fight for their rights ! I agree that it's hard in reality but they give up very easily.. sorry for being blunt :H: BUT men can't do help in this.. its the right given by waheguru jee not by men.. So get your right by yourself.. fight for it.. Make changes.. Create storm if needed. Give the strong hard lessons to all males who think females are inferior or less.

[Tera]

...serving as the panj pyare during Amirt Sanchaar...

158692[/snapback]

Surely Panj Pyares should be men. Not being sexist but as Sant Jarnail Singh Ji Bhindranwale once said, the only reason being is that when the call was made back in 1699 and five Sikhs came forward, they were all men.

[Pheena]

...serving as the panj pyare during Amirt Sanchaar...

158692[/snapback]

Surely Panj Pyares should be men. Not being sexist but as Sant Jarnail Singh Ji Bhindranwale once said, the only reason being is that when the call was made back in 1699 and five Sikhs came forward, they were all men.

158801[/snapback]

During the weekend at the local gurudwara a Raagi had come to do kirtan and he too brought up this point of no woman rising when the Guru asked for 5 Heads. Later my uncle brought up a point to the Raagi that Historically speaking of the time period, Women were at majority Housewifes and this role was adhered to strictly in the Majrity of the women (not forciablly) during the age of our Gurus. It was not until the 60s or the 70s (in punjab) that women actually started to work their way up visibly in the Social status of being taken as a symbol of strength and authority next to man in the Society. How valid this is historically i do not know.

Considering the ratio of man to women during that day in the crowd would have been very minimal to say the least. So perhaps someone here can give some refrences as to roughly how many women were actually present on the day of 1699?

Now It is obvious that the Male was dominant in the area of Spirituality for a long while and even so none of our Guru were women. There are obvious valid reasoning for this and the one main point that sticks out is the Dominace of Male in being an authority. I am by no mean saying that there were no women saints or enlightened women during the time of our Guru, but i am speaking from a authoritative figure that must be able to reach the whole of humanity and it is obvious that the Male body was seen as that figure.

[Guest Narinder Singh]

Gender has never been an issue in Sikhi, so the topic of the post is flawed. If you're talking about "Sikhs" and gender inequality, that i can understand.

And secondly, the Khalsa has no GENDER, so a woman can be one of the Panj Pyare. If not, you're telling me that the mother of the Khalsa, Mata Sahib Kaur Ji cannot be one of the Panj Pyare? And who was the first Sikh? Hmmm. As much as i admire and respect Baba Jarnail Singh Ji Khalsa, he was human and humans make mistakes. Lets listen to our Guru, who is perfect, and less to humans. If our Guru didnt want women to be one of the Panj Pyare, why would he even bless women with Amrit? Why would he bless them with the name Kaur? and why would he give them same five K's? Is there a seperate reyhat for women that i dont know about? If there is, please inform me.

As for women not being able to do kirtan and seva in Harmandir Sahib, im disgusted. History shows that a mans ego and his need for power is unlimited, as Sikhs we need to crush those desires by truly "living" Gurbani rather than just reading it. It's nice talking about equality in Sikhi, but our Gurus and there "true" Sikhs acted on their word, we should too.

MEN AND WOMEN ARE EQUAL IN "ALL" WALKS OF LIFE IN SIKHI, THE PANJ PYARE HAVE BECOME A MERE TRADITION, SOMETHING THEY WERE NEVER MEANT TO BE, WE'VE FORGOTTEN THAT THE PANJ PYARE ARE THE ROOP OF THE GURU.

SIKHI IS TIMELESS AND GENDERLESS, HENCE SIKHI IS PERFECT, AND WE'RE NOT.

Sorry if i've offended anyone,

Waheguru Ji Ka Khalsa

Waheguru Ji Ki Fateh

[singhni84]

Bibi Nanaki was the first Sikh but we don't have any problem with males subsequently becoming Sikh. Why is it ia problem if the first Punj were males and subsequently, females take on the role?

[sikh supreme]

Gender has never been an issue in Sikhi, so the topic of the post is flawed. If you're talking about "Sikhs" and gender inequality, that i can understand.

And secondly, the Khalsa has no GENDER, so a woman can be one of the Panj Pyare. If not, you're telling me that the mother of the Khalsa, Mata Sahib Kaur Ji cannot be one of the Panj Pyare? And who was the first Sikh? Hmmm. As much as i admire and respect Baba Jarnail Singh Ji Khalsa, he was human and humans make mistakes. Lets listen to our Guru, who is perfect, and less to humans. If our Guru didnt want women to be one of the Panj Pyare, why would he even bless women with Amrit? Why would he bless them with the name Kaur? and why would he give them same five K's? Is there a seperate reyhat for women that i dont know about? If there is, please inform me.

As for women not being able to do kirtan and seva in Harmandir Sahib, im disgusted. History shows that a mans ego and his need for power is unlimited, as Sikhs we need to crush those desires by truly "living" Gurbani rather than just reading it. It's nice talking about equality in Sikhi, but our Gurus and there "true" Sikhs acted on their word, we should too.

MEN AND WOMEN ARE EQUAL IN "ALL" WALKS OF LIFE IN SIKHI,  THE PANJ PYARE HAVE BECOME A MERE TRADITION, SOMETHING THEY WERE NEVER MEANT TO BE, WE'VE FORGOTTEN THAT THE PANJ PYARE ARE THE ROOP OF THE GURU.

SIKHI IS TIMELESS AND GENDERLESS, HENCE SIKHI IS PERFECT, AND WE'RE NOT.

Sorry if i've offended anyone,

Waheguru Ji Ka Khalsa

Waheguru Ji Ki Fateh

158809[/snapback]

I agree with most of what you have had to say.... but the with panj pyare it has become a tradition, they represent those who are were willing to lay down their lives for the faith under extreme persecution .

If women are ready to lay down their lives in defence of Sikhism facing certain death then they should rightfully take their place alongside men as panj pyare. It should be more than just symbolism because when it comes to the crunch people need to be ready to take the brave steps and embrace death as the original panj pyare did back in 1699.

As for "SIKHI IS TIMELESS AND GENDERLESS, HENCE SIKHI IS PERFECT, AND WE'RE NOT."

That i agree with 100% unlike other religions which say women are worth half that of men in terms of spirituality. Sikhism disagree's and says these body are vessals of souls which are genderless, so women have as much chance as men to get salvation from the lord and are not disadvantage by the almighty for being women.

Waheguru Ji Ka Khalsa

Waheguru Ji Ki Fateh

[Guest Narinder Singh]

The Panj Pyare arent a "tradition" there arent any "traditions" in Sikhi, traditions always change and are only done because they're just that. traditions, Sikhi never changes and everything in Sikhi is practical. Going by a certain tradition isnt practical. If we have Panj Pyare for traditional reasons then it completely destroys the purpose of what our Guru laid down for us. The Panj Pyare represent our Gurus roop, how can we consider that a tradition?

[sikh supreme]

The Panj Pyare arent a "tradition" there arent any "traditions" in Sikhi, traditions always change and are only done because they're just that. traditions, Sikhi never changes and everything in Sikhi is practical. Going by a certain tradition isnt practical. If we have Panj Pyare for traditional reasons then it completely destroys the purpose of what our Guru laid down for us. The Panj Pyare represent our Gurus roop, how can we consider that a tradition?

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In your views what was the purpose of the panj pyare? Wasnt it to defend the faith and the oppressed? Setting a standard for Sikhs to follow. How many would pass the test of kissing the face of death even though they have taken amrit in todays society?

Now if we do away with these requirements wot is left? only meaningless symbolism, which doesnt carry any weight if the faith ever needs to be defend with arms again.