Gender Inequality In Sikhi

[ms514]

Sat Sri Akal:

There is nothing in Sikhi that promotes gender inqeuality...it is some Sikhs that are perpetuating this in violation of Sikhi.

As per women in the Panj Pyare and Sant Ji...with all due and deep respect, the Panth had decided long ago in the Panthic Rehat Maryada that women can serve in the Punj Pyare. No one individual, no matter how esteemed, can override the will of the Panth.

Bhul Chuk Maaf.

[Jai Tegang!]

Sat Sri Akal:

There is nothing in Sikhi that promotes gender inqeuality...it is some Sikhs that are perpetuating this in violation of Sikhi.

As per women in the Panj Pyare and Sant Ji...with all due and deep respect, the Panth had decided long ago in the Panthic Rehat Maryada that women can serve in the Punj Pyare.  No one individual, no matter how esteemed, can override the will of the Panth.

Bhul Chuk Maaf.

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Not the whole panth, only a section of it. As much as we would like to have one uniform maryada for the whole panth, it's not possible.

Certainly all sections of the Panth have much in common, but there are differences.

[mann_kaum_layee_qurbaan]

just wanted to add my two cents....how many of you guys been to punjab?

when there is a public gathering, how many people in the pinds or villages let their daughters go out alone? Watch the Z tv news today, when you see politicians come to a town to make a speech, you wil see all men sitting together and women separated, why? because men in punjab get pretty crazy around women, you never know when a guy will pinch a bibi to flirt and so forth....no one's daughter in punjab sits among men alone in a huge group, it is considered wrong.

I know punjabis who live in the west and they don't let their daughters go out alone.

so when talking about guru sahib asking for five heads(18th century), do we honestly believe that in a mass gathering of let's say thousands of people, the women of punjab were just chilling alongside thousands of men? in punjab when there are massive gatherings, the men go out to them, not many women. So obviously the number of women on that blessed day had to be very very small.

same goes with sewa at darbar sahib. i posted this before but the last thing we need is some rotten "giani" to tease a bibi doing sewa...it is mostly a cultural thing but people throw other excuses around....

bhul chuk muaaf.

[Lionchild]

It is true.. BUT It's the duty of WOMEN to fight for their rights ! I agree that it's hard in reality but they give up very easily.. sorry for being blunt  :H: BUT men can't do help in this.. its the right given by waheguru jee not by men..

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yes but it would be help if there was a supporting hand...

[Taksali Singh]

wjkkwjkp!

First of all why is it that 99% of the people that are arguing for womens rights on this topic are male?!

If you guys truly believe that women are equal then why is it that 90% of males go to work and expect the dinner ready?

Why do the majority of women do the cooking in a household?

Why do the majority of women do the cleaning in a household?

Why do the majority of women do the ironing, the washing, the laundry...the list goes on....

For those who are sitting on this forum trying to change Sikhi, I ask you to do this... think about the above. If you REALLY want to defend women and their rights then YOU do the above, the cooking, cleaning, the washing etc... Thats where it counts.

At the end of the day its seva, do a Gursikhs Seva; your sisters, mothers, wifes Seva of cooking, cleaning etc then start shouting about Bibian doing seva in the Panj.

The topic has been discussed many times before and if those who are doubting Guroo Saahib by saying Bibian are allowed to take part in the Panj want "confirmation" that they are wrong then look no further:

pWc isMG jo AMimRq dyvY [ qw ko isr Dir Cik pun lyvY [

pun imil pWchu rhq ju BwKih [ qW ko mn mNY idRVH kir rwKih [7[

"Five Singhs administer Amrit, to whose command you must take on your head to receive the boon of Amrit. The five narrate a discipline, which is to be thought of at all times and never forgotten."

(Rehatnama Bhai Desa Singh ji)

It clearly states panj SINGHS not panj 'SINGHNIAAN' not panj 'Sikhs' or panj 'Khalsay' just PANJ SINGHS!

It's very disturbing to hear Sikh brothers trying to alter Guroo Saahibs commands. Nevertheless, this is all a part of their game and we shall all see the truth in the end...

till then... Amrit Schako, Bani Paro, Gursikh Bano...

wjkkwjkp!

[Lion(LK)King]

Singh,

1 - You have listed a bunch of things that Women are in society 'responsible' for doing? And?

Does that mean that Sikhi says that's okay?

You brought up completly irrelevent subjects, that have no meaning in this thread. Let me ask you, by posing above questions are you trying to hint that Sikhi and Vaheguru did not believe in equality?

2 - Mkhalsa has already answered your Singh Singhnee theory before in one of his posts.

So what if it says Singh? Arent all of Guru Sahib's children lions?

Panch Singh, Amrit jo devey. Now let me ask you, in the rehitnamey, whenever they refer to Sikh BIBIYA specifically, and only BIBIYA? They don't. Look at every single rehitnama, they'll (99.9% of the time) be unisex. No distinction is made between the genders, thus a rehitnama pointed towards women is also pointed towards men. THe Rehit is the same.

If women be in Panj Pyare then it becomes Panj Pyareean.

is it not practice to call gursikhs in the "they" form. such as Baba Jarnail Singh Jee Bhindra Valae, not Bhindra Vala.. same for singhnee not valee but valae... thus it would still be punj pyarae.

Also, If women are in the Khalsa, why aren’t they called Khalsee? We are all Khalsa, regardless of gender.

Can you say that a soul has a gender?

As for altering Guru Sahib hukam, I think there's no-one other than those saying bibiya can't be part of Panj that are going against the Hukam of the Guru Since Guru Sahib said on the Vaisakhi day :

"Women shall be equal to men in EVERY way. No Purdah (veil) for them any more, nor the burning alive of the widow on the yre of her spouse. He who kills his daughter, the Khalsa shall not deal with him" (Quoted from Sangat Singhs ' The Sikhs in Hitory')

EVERY SINGLE ASPECT. Who is changing Guru Ji's hukam?

Also Many rehitnamas have been modified and bahmanized, some saying that one shuld serve Bahmans and to protect cows (Desa Singh)

Now lets quote what a Singh wrote in response to your post:

Author: Singh

Date: 05-05-06 13:20

Jaskeerth-Gyan Singh,

Your argument supplied on the link is flawed as Desa Singh Rehatnama contains many questionable lines which go against Gurmat. For example, the consumption of opium/bhang is condoned, and only 2 Bania are mentioned for Nitnem. It is also stated alcohol is acceptable before battle.

Furthermore as you consider yourself a "Taksali Singh", it is unsuprising you have this view since the Taksal Rehat Maryada states that a wife must treat her husband as if he is God. With these types of views I am not sure how valid the stance of Taksal thus is on this issue.

Bhull Chukk Maaf

[S.S.F]

WJKK WJKF

can someone pleez tell me when did bibian strt doin the panj pyare seva?

and does gurbani say evrything a male can do a female can do?

srry if i offended ne1

WJKK WJKF

[Revolutionary]

WJKK WJKF

can someone pleez tell me when did bibian strt doin the panj pyare seva?

and does gurbani say evrything a male can do a female can do?

srry if i offended ne1

WJKK WJKF

Gurbani has nothing about this.

Why? Gurbani just says: Look heres the path to God. Follow it if you want to reach God. Simple.

Not: Women should do this, Men should do that bla bla etc

[Khalsa Fauji]

Gurfateh!!

This is a short reply as im limited for time and will probably upset some people, but...

We talk about equality in Sikhi, ..

Equality is when one and another are exactly the same eg. 1=1

Men and women are not equal and it was Akaal who decided that, if we were equal we would have the same body parts for a start, also our levels of metabolism would be roughly the same...the list goes on....

I don't believe Sikhi preaches equality, what it does however teach is respect....

Men on the whole have been given physical superiority by Akaal, it is our responsibily not to abuse that position but to use it to respect Women.

They are the Princesses we are the Singhs, it is our job to defend them,.

Going to the Panj Piare issue, i also believe it was Akaal's hukham that Panj men stood up, if He wished then Women would have stood up also....this is why the rehitnameh state men as the Panj Piare.....

Please feel free to air you views.

Bhul Chuk Maaf!

Gurfateh!!

[Akhoza]

so ikau mMdw AwKIAY ijqu jMmih rwjwn ]

so kio mundhaa aakheeai jith junmehi raajaan

So why call her bad? From her, kings are born.

Just want to say thats a great quote and that women in Sikhism are just as equal as men and that they should go and assert their rights.