Gender Inequality In Sikhi

[SSD]

Women can not be punj pyre that is it , sant jarnail Singh as said in a video should watch it

please, I respect Sant Jarnail Singh Bhinderwale, but unless his name is Guru Gobind Singh Ji he really can't know who the Punj Pyare should be. I watched his speech and according to him, the only reason the 5 have to be men is because of history. But he forgot that historically who put the large pieces of sugar(sorry I don't know the name of it), but it was a woman. Now in a Taksal Amrit Sanchar do they do that? No. Therefore, he had a flawed logic, if you use Jarnail Singh then I can use Randhir Singh to defend women being in the Punj Pyare, or more famously the Akal Takht Rehat Maryada! The official code of conduct! Lets stay to the rules and not use some Sant said this or another Sant said that, or Yogi Bhajan said. All of this is silly nonsense, does anyone say Guru Sahib said? Do we read Gurbani anymore? Are we so dependent on other people that we can't think for ourselves? According to the Akal Takht Maryada a woman can be in the Punj Pyare! Done Discussion!

[savinderpalsingh]

please, I respect Sant Jarnail Singh Bhinderwale, but unless his name is Guru Gobind Singh Ji he really can't know who the Punj Pyare should be. I watched his speech and according to him, the only reason the 5 have to be men is because of history. But he forgot that historically who put the large pieces of sugar(sorry I don't know the name of it), but it was a woman. Now in a Taksal Amrit Sanchar do they do that? No. Therefore, he had a flawed logic, if you use Jarnail Singh then I can use Randhir Singh to defend women being in the Punj Pyare, or more famously the Akal Takht Rehat Maryada! The official code of conduct! Lets stay to the rules and not use some Sant said this or another Sant said that, or Yogi Bhajan said. All of this is silly nonsense, does anyone say Guru Sahib said? Do we read Gurbani anymore? Are we so dependent on other people that we can't think for ourselves? According to the Akal Takht Maryada a woman can be in the Punj Pyare! Done Discussion!

SGPC are the idiots , no one cares for them outside punjab lol

if you read the news articles of 2006 you will see SGPC was the one who opposed it .

Sant jarnail singh ji talks about puratan maryada ,

i dont disrespect Bhai Randhir Singh ji

but jarnail singh ji followed old maryada not some man made thing

every sant wherether nanaksar or other bhramgiani's always said it was singhs to be panj pyaare

also, all of the orignal panj pyaare were , bhagats in previous life's they took human form again , which was all in devine order of akal purakh to make panj pyaare

you can read it in "khalsa moon mantar"

to respect that we have only 5 singhs as panj pyaare

besides mata sahib kaur ji nor any other famous bibi or bhramgiani opposed this .

why is the new generation too fanatic about it !!

answer is simple

the new generation is idiotic , everyone reads a few books or articles and they think they know everything

everyone talks on the base of tat gian

me too,, but heed to puratan maryada and what patshah ji says

[SSD]

SGPC are the idiots , no one cares for them outside punjab lol

if you read the news articles of 2006 you will see SGPC was the one who opposed it .

Sant jarnail singh ji talks about puratan maryada ,

i dont disrespect Bhai Randhir Singh ji

but jarnail singh ji followed old maryada not some man made thing

every sant wherether nanaksar or other bhramgiani's always said it was singhs to be panj pyaare

also, all of the orignal panj pyaare were , bhagats in previous life's they took human form again , which was all in devine order of akal purakh to make panj pyaare

you can read it in "khalsa moon mantar"

to respect that we have only 5 singhs as panj pyaare

besides mata sahib kaur ji nor any other famous bibi or bhramgiani opposed this .

why is the new generation too fanatic about it !!

answer is simple

the new generation is idiotic , everyone reads a few books or articles and they think they know everything

everyone talks on the base of tat gian

me too,, but heed to puratan maryada and what patshah ji says

But if its fully based on history, then I can say that a woman should put the sugar pieces(please tell me the proper word for this), does Taksal do that? No. So at the end of the day that isn't really following the Historic Amrit Sanchar, the first Amrit Sanchar was also given by one individual:Guru Gobind Singh Ji to Punj Pyare. If one person gave Amrit today, it would be unofficial. You can't base everything from history because it doesn't work that way. Have you ever worn red? According to the Taksal you Bhujer Kurehiti! SGPC didn't make the Maryada, the Panth did, all the Jathas came together to set an agreement(this is why Raagmala may or may not be read) http://www.google.com/imgres?imgurl=http://www.sikhnn.com/images/images2014/SantBhindranwale_Three.jpg&imgrefurl=http://www.sikhnn.com/headlines/2689/american-who-lived-bhindranwale?page%3D2&h=421&w=670&tbnid=BK20mQIbaFDbfM:&zoom=1&docid=DGFiZnEz0s_M-M&hl=en&ei=y4kRVMeCCJHisASZ4ILADA&tbm=isch&client=safari you can see in the image I posted that Jarnail Singh and Yogi Bhajan were close. Yogi Bhajan really showed the Panthic decession of a women doing Punj Pyare Sewa, Jarnail Singh didn't beat him up. You know who Jarnail Singh beat up? His Nephew for reading Raagmala in the Akal Takht!

[savinderpalsingh]

• so you mean we should not trust history ? you even remember your mothers name "mata jito ji" who put patashe in amrit sanchar and you question it?
• you want to compare a gursikh to guru gobind singh ji , what kind of non sense you taking ?
• No i never wore red or green as per maryada nor i am going too , and yes i follow it. !!!
• who said jathas came together? mate you need your knowledge updated !!
• heres , sant gurbachan singh ji's reply to your raagmala issue >>>> https://soundcloud.com/gurmat-parchar/bhairandheersinghraagmalasobha?in=gurmat-parchar/sets/sarvan-darshan-1
• that image was only on the day , yogi bhajan got jathedar hariyan vela vailed out , you wana see his face? see 1970 movie of yogi bhajan , you will want to kill him if he was alive
• sant jarnail singh ji didnt beat up , if you want more info on raag mala and other's , heres all clarifications !! https://soundcloud.com/gurmat-parchar/sets/sarvan-darshan-1
• and mata ji put patashe inamrit because the singh saw , birds fighting , he thought if singhs were like this, he requested mata jito ji and she put patashe init.would having extra sewadar as for patashe in amritsanchar make you happy?

read your history more !!

[ms514]

VAHEGURU JI KA KHALSA, VAHEGURU JI KI FATEH

Not to be a downer, but this Panthic issue is not going to get resolved on Sikhsangat. Also, contrary to what many may assume, the Sikh Rehat Maryada is implemented and given out to the majority of Sikhs during the Amrit Sanchar, as that is the Maryada applied to Amrit Sanchars in most Gurudwaras. Whatever our world view may be of Sikhi, but the majority of Sikhs are not following Taksal/AKJ/Nanaksar Maryada - they are following the Sikh Rehat Maryada.

The whole men vs. women issue - if there is a genuine need for any group, individual or institution to have women not do seva in the Punj Pyare, they would need to take this to the Akaal Takht Sahib to revise the Sikh Rehat Maryada (and applicable Hukamnama to the Panth) to get a unified application of standard. I do not see historical reference of any Mahapurakh from any institution flocking to the Akaal Takht Sahib to raise this issue, probably because the Panth has a LOT of other issues and a need for unity from then until now. There are many controversies that will not be solved until Khalsa Raj is established and a platform of power is available to the Sikhs to have these issues presented, resolved and come to one unified Maryada of the Panth.

Otherwise, this is discussion that will not really lead anywhere. As for anyone who has issues with the Sikh Rehat Maryada, I would submit that if questioning and challenging that Maryada becomes commonplace, there will be more chaos in the Panth - Jathebandi vs. Jathebandi issues on what is the "real Maryada" and of course, each group will represent themselves as the real Maryada. It is a standard - a minimum that all Maryadas should be more or less in alignment with. All Jathebandis recognize that it exists, and though they may identify deficiencies in it, still respect those who follow it as fellow Gursikhs.

Sant Jarnail Singh is often quoted as saying the statement about women and the Punj Pyare. Sant Ji also was very careful to not implement Taksal Maryada when he stayed in the Harmandir Sahib complex and maintain the sanctity of the Maryada in place there. He advocated for Taksal's Maryada, but also respected the Sikh Rehat Maryada and other Jathebandis who had their own Rehat Maryada without inviting (and actively condemning and physically punishing - slapping - those within Taksal) who would create controversy and disunity. We should take a lesson from this.

Maryada is something you are given to follow, to apply a test of your own Sikhi and progress in Sikhi - it is not a weapon or gang manifesto that you debate over and war with your fellow Sikhs. Have some faith in Guru Sahib - The life stories of Mahapurakhs are full of examples where devoted Sikhs had questions or shortcomings in their Sikhi and Guru Sahib would guide that person towards Gurmat and true Maryada.

Focus on yourself and self-progression. Have faith that Guru Sahib gave you the Maryada and Amrit Sanchar that you were destined for and that Guru Sahib will take to down the right path as long as you remain faithful and true to Sikhi.

[Mehtab Singh]

Maryada is something you are given to follow, to apply a test of your own Sikhi and progress in Sikhi - it is not a weapon or gang manifesto that you debate over and war with your fellow Sikhs. Have some faith in Guru Sahib - The life stories of Mahapurakhs are full of examples where devoted Sikhs had questions or shortcomings in their Sikhi and Guru Sahib would guide that person towards Gurmat and true Maryada.

Focus on yourself and self-progression. Have faith that Guru Sahib gave you the Maryada and Amrit Sanchar that you were destined for and that Guru Sahib will take to down the right path as long as you remain faithful and true to Sikhi.

:respect: :respect: :respect: :respect: :respect:

[SSD]

• so you mean we should not trust history ? you even remember your mothers name "mata jito ji" who put patashe in amrit sanchar and you question it?
• you want to compare a gursikh to guru gobind singh ji , what kind of non sense you taking ?
• No i never wore red or green as per maryada nor i am going too , and yes i follow it. !!!
• who said jathas came together? mate you need your knowledge updated !!
• heres , sant gurbachan singh ji's reply to your raagmala issue >>>> https://soundcloud.com/gurmat-parchar/bhairandheersinghraagmalasobha?in=gurmat-parchar/sets/sarvan-darshan-1
• that image was only on the day , yogi bhajan got jathedar hariyan vela vailed out , you wana see his face? see 1970 movie of yogi bhajan , you will want to kill him if he was alive
• sant jarnail singh ji didnt beat up , if you want more info on raag mala and other's , heres all clarifications !! https://soundcloud.com/gurmat-parchar/sets/sarvan-darshan-1
• and mata ji put patashe inamrit because the singh saw , birds fighting , he thought if singhs were like this, he requested mata jito ji and she put patashe init.would having extra sewadar as for patashe in amritsanchar make you happy?

read your history more !!</p>

I wasn't obsessed with history and our mother is Mata Sahib Kaur. There is a Sakhi on why this is, also just to make it clear the first Maryada was not Taksal, it was Guru Nanak's through Charan Pahul. I'm not a tradition fanatic, Bhai Randhir Singh actually did not do something unless it was backed up with previous Maryada decessions: don't bring your Jatha or I can mention my Jatha argument. It is true that Jarnail Singh did slap his nephew for reading Raagmala at the Akal Takht why do you not read Gurbani? Instead of arguing on my sant said this or my sant said that. Bhai Randhir Singh was a great Gursikh, only Gursikh to be given a Siropa by the then 4 Takhts, he allowed women to give Amrit as Punj Pyare.

[SSD]

VAHEGURU JI KA KHALSA, VAHEGURU JI KI FATEH

Not to be a downer, but this Panthic issue is not going to get resolved on Sikhsangat. Also, contrary to what many may assume, the Sikh Rehat Maryada is implemented and given out to the majority of Sikhs during the Amrit Sanchar, as that is the Maryada applied to Amrit Sanchars in most Gurudwaras. Whatever our world view may be of Sikhi, but the majority of Sikhs are not following Taksal/AKJ/Nanaksar Maryada - they are following the Sikh Rehat Maryada.

The whole men vs. women issue - if there is a genuine need for any group, individual or institution to have women not do seva in the Punj Pyare, they would need to take this to the Akaal Takht Sahib to revise the Sikh Rehat Maryada (and applicable Hukamnama to the Panth) to get a unified application of standard. I do not see historical reference of any Mahapurakh from any institution flocking to the Akaal Takht Sahib to raise this issue, probably because the Panth has a LOT of other issues and a need for unity from then until now. There are many controversies that will not be solved until Khalsa Raj is established and a platform of power is available to the Sikhs to have these issues presented, resolved and come to one unified Maryada of the Panth.

Otherwise, this is discussion that will not really lead anywhere. As for anyone who has issues with the Sikh Rehat Maryada, I would submit that if questioning and challenging that Maryada becomes commonplace, there will be more chaos in the Panth - Jathebandi vs. Jathebandi issues on what is the "real Maryada" and of course, each group will represent themselves as the real Maryada. It is a standard - a minimum that all Maryadas should be more or less in alignment with. All Jathebandis recognize that it exists, and though they may identify deficiencies in it, still respect those who follow it as fellow Gursikhs.

Sant Jarnail Singh is often quoted as saying the statement about women and the Punj Pyare. Sant Ji also was very careful to not implement Taksal Maryada when he stayed in the Harmandir Sahib complex and maintain the sanctity of the Maryada in place there. He advocated for Taksal's Maryada, but also respected the Sikh Rehat Maryada and other Jathebandis who had their own Rehat Maryada without inviting (and actively condemning and physically punishing - slapping - those within Taksal) who would create controversy and disunity. We should take a lesson from this.

Maryada is something you are given to follow, to apply a test of your own Sikhi and progress in Sikhi - it is not a weapon or gang manifesto that you debate over and war with your fellow Sikhs. Have some faith in Guru Sahib - The life stories of Mahapurakhs are full of examples where devoted Sikhs had questions or shortcomings in their Sikhi and Guru Sahib would guide that person towards Gurmat and true Maryada.

Focus on yourself and self-progression. Have faith that Guru Sahib gave you the Maryada and Amrit Sanchar that you were destined for and that Guru Sahib will take to down the right path as long as you remain faithful and true to Sikhi.

your right, we can't let this be a Jatha issue, or else Khalsa Raj will be a dream, the youth is probably in the risk of killing of Sikhi if this Jatha issue doesn't get solved. Let me say an example. Jugraj Singh from Basics of Sikhi said in a video that he doesn't fully want to force anyone to have a female member in the Punj Pyare, but if that is their individual choice then so be it. Our future must stay neutral on this issue or else another 1978 will happen and unlike those great Shaheeds instead of setting of our differences for the Guru we will be killing each other. Bhai Fauja Singh didn't read Raagmala but even today on Taksal's website they still honor his Shaheedi. The Panth is the most important thing not our Jathas.

[savinderpalsingh]

I wasn't obsessed with history and our mother is Mata Sahib Kaur. There is a Sakhi on why this is, also just to make it clear the first Maryada was not Taksal, it was Guru Nanak's through Charan Pahul. I'm not a tradition fanatic, Bhai Randhir Singh actually did not do something unless it was backed up with previous Maryada decessions: don't bring your Jatha or I can mention my Jatha argument. It is true that Jarnail Singh did slap his nephew for reading Raagmala at the Akal Takht why do you not read Gurbani? Instead of arguing on my sant said this or my sant said that. Bhai Randhir Singh was a great Gursikh, only Gursikh to be given a Siropa by the then 4 Takhts, he allowed women to give Amrit as Punj Pyare.

listen to the links i gave ,

and no there were greater gursikhs then bhair randhir singh ji, he himself told in his books .

and those gursikhs never opposed old maryada so why did he?

[jkvlondon]

SGPC are the idiots , no one cares for them outside punjab lol

if you read the news articles of 2006 you will see SGPC was the one who opposed it .

Sant jarnail singh ji talks about puratan maryada ,

i dont disrespect Bhai Randhir Singh ji

but jarnail singh ji followed old maryada not some man made thing

every sant wherether nanaksar or other bhramgiani's always said it was singhs to be panj pyaare

also, all of the orignal panj pyaare were , bhagats in previous life's they took human form again , which was all in devine order of akal purakh to make panj pyaare

you can read it in "khalsa moon mantar"

to respect that we have only 5 singhs as panj pyaare

besides mata sahib kaur ji nor any other famous bibi or bhramgiani opposed this .

why is the new generation too fanatic about it !!

answer is simple

the new generation is idiotic , everyone reads a few books or articles and they think they know everything

everyone talks on the base of tat gian

me too,, but heed to puratan maryada and what patshah ji says

Ok,

So practical issue if say, shaheedi parivars band together to do Akhand paath does this mean that 5 amritdhari widowed bibis who are most definately Khalsa cannot transport Maharaj ji but have to call 5 literal Singhs instead to do that job ? Or even a mixed gender group of KHALSA cannot qualify as Maharaj's guard of honour?

It seems strange that would be so when Dasmesh Pita ji didn't make such distinctions...Mata Bhag Kaur ji