This is freaky!!!!!

[Akaali]

Bravekhalsa bro, I think this is a controversial topic, and we need to bring certain issues out, or else how would people learn, as someone posted, they actually learnt something new, so lets see what people have to say.

As for the topic, I also agree with Ghulam veerji!!

I'm sure us "grown-ups" probably know there's a line between having sex and making love. Sex is just another way to express one's love with their life partner. Human beings need affection, at every point of our lives...

When we're young, we need love from our parents, mostly the love of a mother, during life we need the affection of friends, and throughout most of our life, we need the love of a life-partner, love is a natural thing, this world would be doomed, if it wasn't love that bonded us together. We express our love for our parents by giving them a hug, or making them feel happy. Same goes for your spouse.

Why do you think Guru Nanak Dev ji said to live in a household environment, rather than in seclusion. There's a fine line between kaam and love, if we see waheguru in everyone then there wouldn't be this issue of kaam(lust), or moh (attachment), that's the mystery of it!

My two cents..

[Mkhalsa]

What's wrong with desiring your wife or your husband?

because this takes you away from god.. think about it, ive had a girlfriend before (before i knew anything about sikhi) what do you end up doing all day? "oh i love her" "oh i cant wait to see her" "oh i cant wait to talk to her"

when have you thought of the lord? these thoughts will pervade you when doing patt, keertan etc.. desire is what will pull us away from akal purakh.. we need to have this desire for akal purakh himself not for people.

When we're young, we need love from our parents, mostly the love of a mother,

and guru sahib says this is a cursed state.. theres a shabad i read about the stages of life, i forget it now but basically it says when we are born we are cursed with attachment to our mothers and guru sahib says "oh lord how will i remember you now?"

then he goes on about teenage etc and then says when we are married we are attached to our spouses, again guru sahib asks "oh lord how will i remember you now?"

guru sahib specifically mentions the vikaars saying they are curses. I wish i could find it as its interesting.

I learned a lot of what i know from bani.

When i was first getting into sikhi i used to make it a point to read the translations of a full raag within a week on sikhnet (this was when sikhitothemax was just coming out). http://sikhnet.com/sggs/translation/raag.html

i beleive htis shabad was raag tilang but i am not sure. wow raag tilang is amazing, you learn so much from it. we should all make it a point to read the translations of guru sahib, i wish i had continued this as my knowledge lacks so much.

anyway the point is you can love without being polluted with attachment (isnt that true love?) and you can have sex without being polluted with kaam. if you are thinking "oh yeah baby thats great" then you have perverted your mind and therefore have polluted your mind and this will effect your bhagti for quite awhile.

if you are thinking about how much you love your spouse and never want to leave them, you have become polluted with attachment, i am not saying that i do not have vikaars but what i am saying is we should all avoid them.

i mean, ive seen gursikhs lose someone, many of them dont shed a tear, someone close to me lost their mother and auntie didnt even shed a tear over it, in fact she was so happy, she said mummy jee went to guru sahib and we had keertan at her house and she did naam simran whole way through with a smile on her face, if only we could be this disattached yet still love.

[Gupt daasan daas]

Waheguroo Jee Ka Khalsa!

Waheguroo Jee Kee Fateh!!

KAAM IS LUST. A babie can be made without kaam. U just think of it as an natural act. Kaam has nothing to do with love. So people, u are trying to tell me guru sahib or great gursikhs like sant jarnail singh je khalsa bhindranwale had lust when they concieved a child? I dont think so. There is nothing wrong with sex for a reproductive cause and when it is done without kaam. Kaam means lust. Not looking at a women outside of marrige, straight out lust. And a sikh has try his best to battle the 5 vices, kam, krode, lobh, moh, ankhar. And when is said u cant kiss , you can kiss on the cheeks out of affection, but not like using your toungue or something. And u cannot feel her upper area during u know what, as it has nothing to do with making a baby. Do only what u need, and get over with it. Guru sahib said we ( sikhs) are to battle the 5 vices at ALL TIMES. There is no special time to go and have kaam so u can have pleasure. At no time should a sikh stop tryong to battle lust, anger, greed, worldy attachment, and pride.

BHULL CHUKK MAFF

Waheguroo Jee Ka Khalsa!

Waheguroo Jee Kee Fateh!!

[Mkhalsa]

vah vah veero

[Gupt daasan daas]

Waheguroo Jee Ka Khalsa!

Waheguroo Jee Kee Fateh!!

No vah vah me bhai sahib, vah vah guru sahib.

BHULL CHUK MAFF

Waheguroo Jee Ka Khalsa!

Waheguroo Jee Kee Fateh!!

[Ghulam Singh]

End this topic.

Man, don't bring Sant Ji into this topic.

Anyways, you're right, dont' have lust, dont' have kids, become hermits, or bairagis..

[GABROO KHALISTAN DAH]

and then cut ur utensil off and say i'm not havin it, caus ei can get a test tube baby

[Jkaur]

veerji gabroo wow.. dat was blunt

[Guest balwinderkaur]

should i close this topic? i think we have been into circles enough times in the previous posts...

whoever believes in pleasing themselves with intimate relationship is going to do that no matter wat. And the people who follow the belief of not getting intimate unless to have a kid are going to continue to believe that.

In the end no one's gona convince anyone here.

Just read the damn news and get over it. You can DISCUSS this issue with your SPOUSES SINCE MOST of US are not even married...

closing it will be abit too harsh i think...moderators shouldn't be molly-coddling members all the time by shutting down topics always...members should learn some discipline and draw the line btw what to talk about and what not to. imagine a 7 yr old browsing this thread and geez what kinda thoughts come into him/her i dread to imagine. can we just be mature and read the article and get over it?? like what nirmal veerjee said above. if we wanna discuss juz discuss the article in general(i think most of us have missed the gist of the article which is abt indian women becoming more assertive albeit in the wrong way instead of being a good-goody wife and saying "hanjee dear husband whatever u do unto me is kewwl. i wont take any revenge") instead of getting person

al. this what-to-do after marriage thingy can be discussed amongst your wife or husband...no need to make public your views about it. its getting abit too corny.

[Jkaur]

bhenjee i agree with you and i was myself never heard about all this before.. but nyway learnt sthin ... and yeah i agree its getting a bit out of hand.. cant imagine if an underage veer or bhenjee reads it what will they think..