Guru Granth Sahib

[BABBAR KHALISTANI]

"Guru grsnth ji msneyo psrgst gurs ki deh"

Does it actually mean to treat guru granth sahib ji as a body in general or:

is it an order of guru gobind singh ji to read bani and follow it by assuming that gurus are commanding us by being pargat themselves.

I am really confused coz all the practices that we follow actually contradict the ideology guru nanak patshah.

You are right as well as wrong.

Anything done out of LOVE is important and helps. Anything done just out of fear or ritualism is wrong and affects u in a wrong way.

Remember, its doesn't matter what u do, the only thing which matters is ur intention and purity.

I have also seen that most people do these things out of fear and ego. But there may be some fotunates one whose LOVE guides their actions.

I hope I made some sense.

Paaji i understand what u say but look at muslims how much sharda they have towards their holy place that they pray towards only in one directon i.e facing kabba some even exceed that and don't construct toilets in that direction..... fast for a month on the name of god, go to hajj pilgrimage with a lot of sharda, they even cut the meat that they eat by reading kalamas and call it halal, they kill goat out of sharda and call it a sacrifice.....but at the end of the day no matter wiv how much sharda they are done they are no more than false and meaningless rituals

look at hindus how much sharda they have towards their dieties that some people keep repeatedly hitting their head at feet of their mata, feed milk to statues, worship lingams of shiva, go for a 'holy' dip in the polluted ganga water,consider various days,plants,colours,stones as lucky,consider cow as their mata, eat cow dung, drink pi$$ but are these right to do even if thet are out of sharda?????

keeping false beliefs and performing false rituals (no matter out of how much love and devotion they are) prohibited in sikhi. There is no such allowance to sikhs to do any ritual only if it is from sharda. sikhs are totally prohibited as far as i know. hope my views make a little sense

[Guest SatwantBeantKehar]

well said babbar khalistani, i echo your viewpoint - and as a matter of fact - It is untrue that Guru Gobind Singh established The SGGS as guru - bit of a shocker, aint it but read on - Who was guru nanak's guru - pandas at hardwar asked him this question and he said

"shabad guru tiska main chera "

Shabad has always been the guru and will always be- It manifested itself in 10 human bodies (Who were one jot bytheway ) through whom mankind was gifted with shabad in redable, understandable form and then Guru Gobind returned the jot to where it belonged (IT wasn't like all his sons had died and he couldn't find someone worthy among his sikhs - It was all predestined ).

[japmans]

well that begs the question

shabad was guru from the start.

but in terms of physical saroop, is it fair to say that Guru Gobind Singh Ji bestowed guruship onto Sri Guru Granth Sahib Ji?

Cuz it's true..Guru Nanak did say this in conversation with the Sidhhas, but that doesn't mean that Guru Gobind Singh Ji DIDN'T bestow guruship onto Guru Granth Sahib Ji.

[Guest Papi]

well that begs the question

shabad was guru from the start.

but in terms of physical saroop, is it fair to say that Guru Gobind Singh Ji bestowed guruship onto Sri Guru Granth Sahib Ji?

Cuz it's true..Guru Nanak did say this in conversation with the Sidhhas, but that doesn't mean that Guru Gobind Singh Ji DIDN'T bestow guruship onto Guru Granth Sahib Ji.

YEP, physical and spiritual form, both combined, is our guru

[japmans]

hanji... sothat would suggest that the type of respect given to the physical saroop of Guru Ji is justified, or no?

[Guest Papi]

i think it is, buh others dont seem to agree.

guru gobind singh said, guru granth ji maneyo pargat gura ki DEH

deh means body, i think thats pretty straight forward

[Guest SatwantBeantKehar]

Hindus bestow lot of repsect to ramayana - anyone born in a hindu household is brought up on how great rama was and hinduism is the world best religion and more ..

However until this person reads ramayana and understands it and finds out for himself it it Really is such a great book - his shradha no matter how much will be baseless and unjustified as he doesn't even know what he is respecting.

When he actually reads and finds out that ram killed a shudra who was praying just because he was a shudra and Ram kicked out his pregnant wife and so on ... he should make an unbiased decision if that is the path for him.

I think there is an analogy.

I was born into a sikh family and was brought up on how great sikhism was (without parents really understanding basic gurmat philosophy ) and in my early twenties i rejected all of that as I belived religion is the root of all evil and turned to athiesm and staunch humanitarianism .

Few years later i chanced upon gurmat sangeet and that strarted my quest to learn gurmat as a philosophy (with zero shardha ) and I admit

it is beyond humans to come up with such a gem.

Respecting saroop - oh for sure but first find out for yourself if you believe in what guru says (and it'd be nice if you tried to live the philosophy too ) .

Bottomline is "SIKHS NEED TO DISCOVER THEIR GURU" !

[Guest Papi]

i agree with you fully, however, if you only treat guru granth sahib as a "book" with some knowledge then i'm afraid your sikhi wont progress much.

[BABBAR KHALISTANI]

When u read the bani and try to understand it i feel it is very different than any other knowledge contained in the books. it is about the kartar, the rahim, the waheguru, the ik onkar........the bani is the ultimate guru that leads to wahegurunot the saroop. The saroop deserves respect like doing namaskar, being covered in rumalas , being placed in palki but going too far like wrapping in blankets, putting ac's on, sukhasan e.t.c or treating it like a human is not good. It's like idol worship.

I think brahmanism has creeped ino us and we are getting engaged in false rituals for ex..praying to photos of gurujis, going to samadhs of shaheed singhs......i feel we should mend our ways b4 we get labelled as idol worshippers especially with sikhi going global.

If we lay guruji to sleep, wake up, put ac's, wrap in blankets why don't we give guruji a bath in the morning? Doesn't a body need a shower?

[Balwinder Singh]

"Guru grsnth ji msneyo psrgst gurs ki deh"

Does it actually mean to treat guru granth sahib ji as a body in general or:

is it an order of guru gobind singh ji to read bani and follow it by assuming that gurus are commanding us by being pargat themselves.

I am really confused coz all the practices that we follow actually contradict the ideology guru nanak patshah.

You are right as well as wrong.

Anything done out of LOVE is important and helps. Anything done just out of fear or ritualism is wrong and affects u in a wrong way.

Remember, its doesn't matter what u do, the only thing which matters is ur intention and purity.

I have also seen that most people do these things out of fear and ego. But there may be some fotunates one whose LOVE guides their actions.

I hope I made some sense.

Paaji i understand what u say but look at muslims how much sharda they have towards their holy place that they pray towards only in one directon i.e facing kabba some even exceed that and don't construct toilets in that direction..... fast for a month on the name of god, go to hajj pilgrimage with a lot of sharda, they even cut the meat that they eat by reading kalamas and call it halal, they kill goat out of sharda and call it a sacrifice.....but at the end of the day no matter wiv how much sharda they are done they are no more than false and meaningless rituals

look at hindus how much sharda they have towards their dieties that some people keep repeatedly hitting their head at feet of their mata, feed milk to statues, worship lingams of shiva, go for a 'holy' dip in the polluted ganga water,consider various days,plants,colours,stones as lucky,consider cow as their mata, eat cow dung, drink pi$$ but are these right to do even if thet are out of sharda?????

keeping false beliefs and performing false rituals (no matter out of how much love and devotion they are) prohibited in sikhi. There is no such allowance to sikhs to do any ritual only if it is from sharda. sikhs are totally prohibited as far as i know. hope my views make a little sense

You are very right.

The rituals hindus and muslims perform were meant to instill Love and devotion in them by their respective Gurus/prophets but with time, the REAL meaning behind performing all those things vanished and it all ended up with empty rituals. Just to "show off" their devotion people go out of propotions now. They do all that out of fear and ignorance. Now if somebdy does all that with a lot of sharda or pyar, they will get whatever fruit that "kirya" can provide....but for the inner peace or meeting with God or finding Him....one has to search within himself/Herself. Sometimes these outer kriyas are designed to instill or make or person aware of the inner peace.

Real peace come from within. No matter how much u do on outside, it will always fail to deliver inner peace.

But sometime, that inner peace or devotion tend to influence our outside,....like the story of Guru Nanak......where he gave everything saying tera tera tera...... when he was counting ik, do ,tin ......

That is real devotion.....senseless for a common human being but ...means a lot for a real devotee.

I hope I made some sense.