Mool Mantar

[Son of Guru Gobind Singh Ji]

vaaheguru ji ka khalsa vaaheguru ji ki fateh

A couple of my brothers wanted this discussion to take place so I thought I should start up a new thread to discuss things.

Navjot Singh sent me these messages on MSN messenger a while ago but I couldn't reply to him on time since I wasn't in my room:

navjot singh- Indra raneea too pud maria, sare bhamana noo swad aya says:

yo

navjot singh- Indra raneea too pud maria, sare bhamana noo swad aya says:

wjkk wjkf

navjot singh- Indra raneea too pud maria, sare bhamana noo swad aya says:

singh

navjot singh- Indra raneea too pud maria, sare bhamana noo swad aya says:

how can u say nanak hosi bhee such is not bani

navjot singh- Indra raneea too pud maria, sare bhamana noo swad aya says:

?????

navjot singh- Indra raneea too pud maria, sare bhamana noo swad aya says:

its not saying thats wrong

navjot singh- Indra raneea too pud maria, sare bhamana noo swad aya says:

its saying god was there in the past the present and will truely be there in the future

navjot singh- Indra raneea too pud maria, sare bhamana noo swad aya says:

ans ur saying thats not bani

navjot singh- Indra raneea too pud maria, sare bhamana noo swad aya says:

all taksal reads it, nihang dals read its read at harmandier sahib, and the 5 takht

navjot singh- Indra raneea too pud maria, sare bhamana noo swad aya says:

and u think its not bani

navjot singh- Indra raneea too pud maria, sare bhamana noo swad aya says

:

give me some poitns of why its not bani

First of all I have NO clue of who said Nanak Hose Bhi Sach is NOT Baani Maybe Navjot Singh is confused to start with about what the argument is all about. So it's my request to him to understand what the discussion/argument is.

So anyway, if anyone has anything to discuss they can do so here.

vaaheguru ji ka khalsa vaaheguru ji ki fateh

[Mkhalsa]

of course the salok aad sach, jugaad sach, hai bhi sach is bani!!!!!!!!! anyone who says otherwise is a mahamoorakh.

But its not a part of mool mantar.. thats all we are saying.. think about it.. the banis called japji sahib, and most gutkas and guru sahib says:

IkonkarSatnamKartaPurakhNirbhauNirvairAkalMooratAjooniSaibanGurprasad||

then a big || JAP ||

then AadSachJugAadSach|| HaiBhiSachNanakHosiBhiSach||1|| (end of first salok of guru sahib)

u can see it yourself online right here: http://www.sikhitothemax.com/page.asp?Sour...ceID=G&PageNo=1

this salok also appears in the exact same form in sri sukhmani sahib jee..

mool mantar appears numerous times in guru sahib, at the beginning of every/almost every raag.. few examples:

http://sikhnet.com/sggs/translation/0728.h...aupdy%20Gru%201

http://sikhnet.com/sggs/translation/0975.h...wien%20mhlw%204

even in sri asa di // it starts with mool mantar..

IkonkarSatnamKartaPurakhNirbhauNirvairAkalMooratAjooniSaibanGurprasad||

and if every other raag in guru sahib starts with mool mantar.. why not japji sahib?? and then logically it says the name of the raag/bani after mool mantar..

||JAP||

:nihungsmile:

can i please stop repeating the same things again and again now?

[GABROO KHALISTAN DAH]

humble request dont' make dis a jatha match

[r.singh]

Are you sure he's talking about the length of mool mantar? He only mentions nanak hosee bhee sach and claims that you don't consider it banee. He doesn't say anything about mool mantar. He also mentions that it's read at the 5 takhts and I'm pretty sure that at amrit sanchaars at the 3 takhts in Punjab, mool mantar is given as being up to gurprasaad. So he can't be talking about mool mantar. But why would he just come out of nowhere and say that you don't consider Nanak hosee bhee sach to be banee? Maybe you said something strange during some conversation and he got confused about this? I've never heard of anyone arguing about nanak hosee bhee sach not being banee though. This is a new one. Hopefully you singhs can resolve this one quickly.

[Son of Guru Gobind Singh Ji]

yes, I would also want to see where any Singh or Kaur would have said such a thing. Navjot Singh sent those messages to me so it's obvious that he thinks that I don't believe that the salok Nanak Hose Bhi Sach is baani. If I ever made such a big mistake, even without knowing, please quote it and I will do ardas to Guru Sahib to forgive me.

[moorakh mugadh]

vwihgurU jI kw Kwlsw!

vwihgurU jI kI &iqh!!

WHO EVER SAID " Nanak Hose Bhi Sach is NOT Baani" HE IS NOT A SIKH

AND IM NOT SORRY ABT WHAT I SAID

[Guest mehtab]

i am a great moorakh...so all i will say is "who are we to decide what is bani and what is not?"...are we gurujee?...Guru Arjan Dev refused to change gurbani according to what people wanted...are we not doing the same? ...He happily gave His life but did NOT change GOD's word!...and we?

plzz forgive me if i said anything wrong...i m a great moorakh and said what i feel...i stand corrected

[V]

i am a great moorakh...so all i will say is "who are we to decide what is bani and what is not?"...are we gurujee?...Guru Arjan Dev refused to change gurbani according to what people wanted...are we not doing the same? ...He happily gave His life but did NOT change GOD's word!...and we?

plzz forgive me if i said anything wrong...i m a great moorakh and said what i feel...i stand corrected

:WW:

IT IS DEFENATLY

BANI!

just like MKhalsa bhaji said:

from JAP begins JAPJI SAHIB

Waheguroo Jee Ka Khalsa!

Waheguroo Jee Kee Fateh!!

[Akaali]

LOL

I think y'all are just too lazy to say upto "nanak hosi bhi sach"!!

It doesn't matter gursikho, you read more bani you will get more laha out of it, why debate over whether its mool-mantar or not.

The basic mool-mantar that WE(most if not all) were brought up was:

~

Ik Onkar

Satnaam

Kartapurkh

Nirbhao

Nirvair

Akaal Moorat

Ajooni

Sai Bhang

Gurparsad

Jap

Aad Sach

Jugad Sach

Hai Bhi Sach

Nanak Hosi Bhi sach||

~

Then it starts "Sochai Soch Na Hovai Je Sochai Lakh vaar"

Do you see a difference between the last line and the rest of the mool-mantar? ?

The Mool-mantar consists of max 3-4 words each line, and when the SECOND pauri begins, it starts with "Sochai Soch Na Hovai Je Sochai Lakh vaar" which marks the beginning of Japji sahib, as it goes into a detailed vichaar..

My two cents!

[Niranjana]

Here we go again!!!

No Raag Mala...

Shorten Mool Mantr...

Shorten Chaupai Sahib...

Disregard vast amounts of other 'BANI' from Dasam Granth...

Demolish paintings, structures, buildings, in short our heritage...

Ignore Raags altogether...forget about learning true Gurmat Sangeet, this new 'boosted' stuff is much better!

...again more attempts in the last 100 years to change, sterilise, alter, codify and frankly destroy what was true Puratan Sikhia...

...nevermind, it is Kal Jug!

There have been plenty of articles written as why Mool Mantr continues past JAP to Nanak Hosee Bee Sach...and the difference between the Mool Mantr and the Mangla Charans that appear before other Shabds in the Sri Guru...

...as with all these issues, as Bikramjit Singh has suggested elsewhere, and here I do agree with him, if the panth got together stopped arguing about sides and with open minds sought to finalise the matter, we could do so...however, given we are all stuck in our Jathabandis and organisations, all claiming to be the custodians of the one single true maryada, all that happens is one side bashes the other and so on and so forth...

...Moderators, a quick benti, let's wind up this thread, we have plenty of references for both sides of this arguments on the AKJ and TAKSALI (when it is relaunched again) websites...please make up you own mind...

...from what I have seen of forums of late, this will envitably result in Jatha, Taksal, Sampradya and other organisation bashing...

To close off...please remember Guroo Ji owns us, Vahe Guroo owns us, not the other way around...so al

l these claims to having the authentic rehit and what not are frankly boll***s!!!

Kind regards and Guroo Raakha,

Niranjana