Militant Singhs And Punjabi Culture

[SardarDholi]

Awsw mhlw 4 ]

aasaa mehalaa 4 ||

Aasaa, Fourth Mehla:

sqsMgiq imlIAY hir swDU imil sMgiq hir gux gwie ]

sathasa(n)gath mileeai har saadhhoo mil sa(n)gath har gun gaae ||

Join the Sat Sangat, the Lord's True Congregation; joining the Company of the Holy, sing the Glorious Praises of the Lord.

igAwn rqnu bilAw Git cwnxu AigAwnu AMDyrw jwie ]1]

giaan rathan baliaa ghatt chaanan agiaan a(n)dhhaeraa jaae ||1||

With the sparkling jewel of spiritual wisdom, the heart is illumined, and ignorance is dispelled. ||1||

hir jn nwchu hir hir iDAwie ]

har jan naachahu har har dhhiaae ||

O humble servant of the Lord, let your dancing be meditation on the Lord, Har, Har.

AYsy sMq imlih myry BweI hm jn ky Dovh pwie ]1] rhwau ]

aisae sa(n)th milehi maerae bhaaee ham jan kae dhhoveh paae ||1|| rehaao ||

If only I cold meet such Saints, O my Siblings of Destiny; I would wash the feet of such servants. ||1||Pause||

hir hir nwmu jphu mn myry Anidnu hir ilv lwie ]

har har naam japahu man maerae anadhin har liv laae ||

Meditate on the Naam, the Name of the Lord, O my mind; night and day, center your consciousness on the Lord.

jo ieChu soeI Plu pwvhu iPir BUK n lwgY Awie ]2]

jo eishhahu soee fal paavahu fir bhookh n laagai aae ||2||

You shall have the fruits of your desires, and you shall never feel hunger again. ||2||

Awpy hir AprMpru krqw hir Awpy boil bulwie ]

aapae har apara(n)par karathaa har aapae bol bulaae ||

The Infinite Lord Himself is the Creator; the Lord Himself speaks, and causes us to speak.

syeI sMq Bly quDu Bwvih ijn@ kI piq pwvih Qwie ]3]

saeee sa(n)th bhalae thudhh bhaavehi jinh kee path paavehi thhaae ||3||

The Saints are good, who are pleasing to Your Will; their honor is approved by You. ||3||

nwnku AwiK n rwjY hir gux ijau AwKY iqau suKu pwie ]

naanak aakh n raajai har gun jio aakhai thio sukh paae ||

Nanak is not satisfied by chanting the Lord's Glorious Praises; the more he chants them, the more he is at peace.

Bgiq BMfwr dIey hir Apuny gux gwhku vxij lY jwie ]4]11]63]

bhagath bha(n)ddaar dheeeae har apunae gun gaahak vanaj lai jaae ||4||11||63||

The Lord Himself has bestowed the treasure of devotional love; His customers purchase virtues, and carry them home. ||4||11||63||

the only difference between the songs you sing and the songs guruji told his sikhs to sing is that you sing to please either yourself or people around you. gursikhs sing to please waheguru so that their sins maybe washed away.

PS. i wont tell you to stop. you can do what you like. :D in the end, those bolian will not go with you, in the end only and only gurbani, sewa, simran will go with you. :D guru kirpa karey

i know what you're saying but i don't compare Kirtan to Lok geet...kirtan is on a religeous spirtitual level whereas lok geet is spoken from the comon tongue...you can't compare the two because they are totaly diferent. but again i say that no one from the opposite side of where i come from has answered the question...what is wrong with what i do?

thankyou

[Guest Papi]

there is nothing "wrong" with it. :D but i'd rather spend time listning and singing kirtan, buh thats just me :D

[sher-e-panjab]

I have always loved Punjabi Lok Geet. I am proud of my families military background. And i embrace both my Culture (punjabi) and my Religion(Sikhi)...

...so why can't the rest of the Sikh community be prud that a Sardar is performing with some of the greatest musicians...

Theres nothing wrong with proper Panjabi culture, only todays 'culture' is an entirely different thing, which of the 2 are you reffering to?

Your confusing me, which of todays musicians are you reffering to in association with Punjabi Lok Geet??? Becuase as far as Im aware there aren't any in the mainstream.

[Guest Narinder Singh]

Do whatever you want but dont mix sikhi with being punjabi or bhangra in order to make sikhi more convenient or for it to fit your lifestyle, sikhs have had to deal with enough monkeys dancing around with giant khande around their necks. As far as "real" punjabi culture and lok geet goes, it doesnt exist anymore, so i really dont know what youre all arguing about.

Fateh.

[KFI]

What you are doing is completly wrong.

You talk about singhs telling you what you're doing is wrong, and now you are finding people who support your manmat lifestyle? These so called Sikhs who just said what you're doing has nothing wrong with it are same like you, manmant pakandis.

You also seem to look like you have a lot of josh, I will break your dhol and use your sticks to play your head to match the lyrics to my latest kavishree brampton/malton singhs wrote.

You talk as if you are singing boliyan about sikhism and about the great shaheeds of sikhism. Why don't you type out with translations some of the boliyan you sing and play bhangra to? Maybe that will give us a better idea of what kinds of things come out of your mouth.

You ask everyone thinks you're doing good and are proud of you. Everyone looks the same once they are covered with mud.

[buddasingh]

Uhh i think u came on the wrong forum buddy, if u expect Sikhs to accept your kanjar culture that u call punjabi culture then youre highly mistaken.

Punjabi culture isnt boliyan, it isnt punjabi music and it isnt bhangra, punjabi culture is the history of punjab, the language of punjab and the amazing stories of the people who lived in punjab. You wanna learn about punjabi culture learn about the raj of Maharaja Ranjit Singh, learn about Udham Singh. learn about the great poets and scholars who were from punjab, learn about bulleh shah or the invasion of Alexandra the great.

And whats with this whole "militant singh" concept u got going? I think most of punjabi music is garbage, i dont walk around with a freakin ak47 strapped around me.

As for dancing, there is one true way to dance, where you dance not for yourself, but in the defense of others.

Fateh.

The above description of punjabi culture is a rare intelligent recognition. SDholi, what panjabi culture or lok geet are you referring to? Are you speaking of brittany spears equivalent of the Punjabi culture or something else? The former is not culture?

Having khanda’s around one’s neck is not culture. Singing about subjugating women, getting wasted and objectifying women, murdering enemies, or notions about race that the KKK support, is not culture. That is what I call MILITANT!! If you speak of the typical punjabi bhangra, then this explains what some of the problem is.

Singing bolyian (lyrics), playing various instruments alone is not an issue. It is the content which can either contribute to culture or be a disgrace. You are young and are likely surrounded by the superficial amongst your peers. Hopefully you will develop your contribution to be true culture if you have not already. Set yourself apart from the thousands of posers.

Look at Rabbi Shergill. Despite any shortcomings, as an artist he’s made an iota of intelligent contribution, that is to be appreciated. There is no reason that your instruments and style can not do the same.

Collaborate with those you deem militant. They will teach you a thing or two about your assumptions and sad stereotyping and surprise you with their love of true art and culture. I remind you that our Guruji’s were militant. They carried shastars and fought in wars. They were also the pinnacle of cultural refinement.

On this last note, people are aware that “militant” is a racially charged label. It is thrown around to oppress ALL Sikhs by those outside of Sikhi. To claim to be a Sikh, yet resort to a pejorative use of “militant” is utterly shameful uncle tommery. Especially anyone older than sdholi who should know better. Unless someone is carrying an AK47, as others have pointed out, show your ability to employ a more expanded vocabulary.

[ms514]

WAHEGURU JI KA KHALSA, WAHEGURU JI KI FATEH

As long as you understand that Punjabi culture is not what the Kanjarkhana that people make it out to be these days. Yeah, men did Bhangra and women didi Giddha. Men were not allowed to even see women do Giddha. One guy in my dad's pind tried to sneak a peek and he got the pendu kutaapaa (old school beatdown to you angreji people). Singers were not allowed to perform inside the town...they had to perform in the outskirts or completely out of the town, as the townsfolk did not like their town soiled by such things. Alcohol and drugs were completely looked down upon (just look at the traditional view on amlees or addicts). They were a simple culture which had honor and pride. And Punjab has its respect because of Sikhi. So proper respect for that is also important. It is not this mini-skirt wearing, daru drinking, lewd singing nonsense that is around these days. This was 60 years ago. What the Punjab has become is a farce.

[Singhstah]

VahegurooJiKaKhalsaVahegurooJiKiFateh

veerji, sardardholi Ji, I can understadn that ur feeling angry about this, as to you it must seem like it is just the opinion of certain Singhs. However, Gurbani also teaches against this, it was the mistake of the singhs in not quoting this bani to u, as when giving advice, gurbani is the tool that must be used not anger or harsh words, and this aplies to everyone in the debate, other wise it seems like it is just someones opinion. Now, here are some gurbani quotes and quotes from reliable rehatnamas, relating to the subject so anyone can decide for themselves.

IN REGARDS TO MUSIC

"REHAT

iqRXw rwg sunih icq lwie ] sunhu lwl so jmpuir jwie ]17]

thriyaa raag sunehi chith laae || sunahu laal so jamapur jaae ||17||

Those who listen to dirty lyrics and lustful tunes with attention, listen Nand Lal Jee, they will be punished by the angel of death.;

Rehatnama Bhai Nand Laal Jee

GURBANI

myry mohn sRvnI ieh n sunwey ] swkq gIq nwd Duin gwvq bolq bol Ajwey ]1] rhwau ]

maerae mohan sravanee eih n sunaaeae || saakath geeth naadh dhhun gaavath bolath bol ajaaeae ||1|| rehaao ||

O my fascinating Lord, may I never listen to the faithless cynic, singing his songs and tunes, and chanting his useless words. ||1||Pause||"

From ang 820 of Guroo Granth Sahib Ji Mahraj

IN REGARDS TO DANCING

nic nic tpih bhuqu duKu pwvih ]

nach nach ttapehi bahuth dhukh paavehi ||

they dance and dance and jump all around, but they only suffer in terrible pain.

nicAY tipAY Bgiq n hoie ]

nachiai ttapiai bhagath n hoe ||

By dancing and jumping, devotional worship is not performed.

From ang 159 of Guroo Granth Sahib Ji Mahraj.

VahegurooJiKaKhalsaVahegurooJiKiFateh

[Prem]

Buddhasingh makes some points which are worth considering. It is possible that people are discussing at cross purposes conflating aspects of Jatt Pride culture that they object to with SardarDholi's genuine love for the music and culture of traditional Punjab. But sometimes someone says something so fundamentalist and extreme and Taliban style that it makes me laugh. Like when KFI says this:

You also seem to look like you have a lot of josh, I will break your dhol and use your sticks to play your head to match the lyrics to my latest kavishree brampton/malton singhs wrote.

Guru Fateh

[Prem]

buddhasingh

On this last note, people are aware that “militant” is a racially charged label. It is thrown around to oppress ALL Sikhs by those outside of Sikhi. To claim to be a Sikh, yet resort to a pejorative use of “militant” is utterly shameful uncle tommery

You actually have a good point in certain situations and expressions of prejudice. However, the term 'militant' is used with pride by some Sikhs -- just on this forum alone there are two people who have 'MILITANT' in their name and use it as a term of pride! So where do these people fit into this? Surely they must be the Uncle Toms who have absorbed the prejudice to such an extent that they bandy it about for themselves with some pride! Amazing. However in certain circumstances, like when KFI expresses his desire to carry out violence against those he disagrees with, I don't see what is innacurate or wrong with the term!

Guru Fateh