Bhagat Kabir Ji

[N30S1NGH]

The article has no reference. Where is it stated that the line you just quoted is of Bhagat Kabir Ji? Is it in Gurbani? List the Ang. Once again, Bhagat Ji's work that is in Kabir Mansoor was not accepted because he wasn't a Sikh then.

Another propaganda by sharia sikhs, i just dont get it man, you calling giani gurdit singh (tat khalsa) which came with british ferengi sgpc movement not more than 100 years old as "Puratan source" ?

what a joke!!!!!!!!

wait until 20 more years, whats next? missionary pseudo hybrid logical-soo called sceintific sikhs will start calling inderjit singh ghugga as puratan source.

The tale of Bhagat Kabir begins when a certain Brahmin lived in Benares who with his daughter went to see Guru Ramanand (a Swami, and great spiritual soul). As the girl touched the Swami's feet he, not knowing she was a virgin widow, blessed her with a child. Her father told Ramanand that she was a widow. Ramanand said what had been said has been said and she would have a son but no one will see any signs of her pregnancy and no stigma would be attached to her reputation.

In time on a Monday in 1398 she gave birth to a baby boy. She left the child on a lotus flower in a lake called Laher Talao. A Muslim weaver called Ali, of the 'Julah' caste, also known as Nir for he lived near water (Nir), found the child. He and his wife Nima, being childless, brought up the abandoned child as their own. They called upon a Muslim clergyman who opened up the holy Quran and picked out the name 'Kabir', meaning 'great' in Arabic.

Bhai Gurdas Ji speaks of an amazing encounter between Kabir and Ramanand that displays the difference between faith (being universal) and religion (a desire for society to split humanity based on labels):

'The Brahmin Ramanand lived at Benaras detached from the world.

Early in the morning, he would visit the Ganga [Ganges] to take his bath. One time, before Ramanand, Kabir went and lay in his path.

Touching Kabir with his foot, and waking him, he asked of Kabir to say "Raam".

Just as the iron touched by the Philosopher's stone becomes gold, and the margosa tree [Azadirchta indica] is made fragrant by sandalwood, so too the wonderous Guru [enlightened One] can turn animals and ghosts into divine angels.

Meeting the miraculous [the Guru], the disciple merges into the spectacle of the wonder [ie. the Lord].

There, the from within the Self emerges a fountain and the words from the Gurmukh's [follower of the Guru's words] carve the amazing creatures [ie. the sould is given its beauty].

For now, Raam and Kabir have become identical.'

(Bhai Gurdas Ji, Vaar 10, Verse 15)

Kabir's works are by far the most numerous in Adi Guru Durbar, 292 Hymns & 249 Sloks. Swami Ramanand became his teacher which explains the depth of knowledge regarding Yoga that Kabir portrays in his works. Ridiculed by Brahmins for being a low caste, his works actively reject caste, and the notion of the Almighty only being accesible by higher classes.

Kabir actively rejected tyranny (by the muslim 'Mullah' class and the Hindu 'Brahmin' class). Legend holds that Kabir married Loi and had 2 children in his lifetime. Going against superficial and superstitious thinking, Kabir on realising his time of death was near in order to disapprove an old Brahmnical superstition moved from so-called 'blessed city' Banares, where he had lived all his life, to a so-called 'cursed city' of Magahar. In accordance with a Brahminical superstition any one dying in Shiva's city of Banares went to highest heaven and anyone dying in Magahar went to hell.

Kabir died in 1518. On his death a dispute arose, as on Akali Guru Nanak's death, between Muslims and Hindus. They both claimed him to be of their faith hence both wanted to dispose of his dead body according to their respective faiths religious rights. As a heated quarrel arose a voice came from heaven. When they then ceased quarrelling they found the corpse had miraculously vanished. Kabir left upon his death a religious order, the 'Kabir Panthis’.

His works, ‘Kabirbijak’, were compiled by a number of his disciples - Dharm Das, Surat Gopal etc. around 1464 when Kabir was approximately sixty six years of age. His works include, 'Kabir Granthvali' and 'Bjack'. His followers, known as 'Kabir Panthis' exist to this day and sing the praises of the Almighty, simplicity and morality.

[N30S1NGH]

But Bhagat Ramanand jee persisted and eventually got Naam Daan from Guru Sahib. Bhagat Ji’s Shabad is the very proof of it.

ਰਾਮਾਨੰਦ ਜੀ ਘਰੁ 1

ੴ ਸਤਿਗੁਰ ਪ੍ਰਸਾਦਿ ॥

ਕਤ ਜਾਈਐ ਰੇ ਘਰ ਲਾਗੋ ਰੰਗੁ ॥ ਮੇਰਾ ਚਿਤੁ ਨ ਚਲੈ ਮਨੁ ਭਇਓ ਪੰਗੁ ॥1॥ ਰਹਾਉ ॥

ਏਕ ਦਿਵਸ ਮਨ ਭਈ ਉਮੰਗ ॥ ਘਸਿ ਚੰਦਨ ਚੋਆ ਬਹੁ ਸੁਗੰਧ ॥

ਪੂਜਨ ਚਾਲੀ ਬ੍ਰਹਮ ਠਾਇ ॥ ਸੋ ਬ੍ਰਹਮੁ ਬਤਾਇਓ ਗੁਰ ਮਨ ਹੀ ਮਾਹਿ ॥1॥

ਜਹਾ ਜਾਈਐ ਤਹ ਜਲ ਪਖਾਨ ॥ ਤੂ ਪੂਰਿ ਰਹਿਓ ਹੈ ਸਭ ਸਮਾਨ ॥

ਬੇਦ ਪੁਰਾਨ ਸਭ ਦੇਖੇ ਜੋਇ ॥ ਊਹਾਂ ਤਉ ਜਾਈਐ ਜਉ ਈਹਾਂ ਨ ਹੋਇ ॥2॥

ਸਤਿਗੁਰ ਮੈ ਬਲਿਹਾਰੀ ਤੋਰ ॥ ਜਿਨਿ ਸਕਲ ਬਿਕਲ ਭ੍ਰਮ ਕਾਟੇ ਮੋਰ ॥

ਰਾਮਾਨੰਦ ਸੁਆਮੀ ਰਮਤ ਬ੍ਰਹਮ ॥ ਗੁਰ ਕਾ ਸਬਦੁ ਕਾਟੈ ਕੋਟਿ ਕਰਮ ॥3॥1॥

Bhagat Ji clearly says that Shabad of Guru eradicated millions of past karmas. He also says he is sacrificed to the Satguru. According to Gurbani, there is only one Satguru, Guru Nanak Sahib. Therefore, the Shabad proves that Bhagat Ji revealed it after getting Naam from Guru Sahib. Hence, all Bhagats including Ramanand Ji became Sikhs of Guru Sahib. Their bani after becoming Guruwala was included in Guru Granth Sahib. Everything else before that was rejected.

Where does it say specifically that bhagat ramanand got naam from satguru nanak dev ji

In gurbani,

Satguru/Guru is used for -

- Sri Akaal Purkh

- Guru Sahiban (Sri guru nanak dev ji )

- Guru (spiritual teacher/murshid) - this one is used mostly by bhagats to describe their teachers.

ਰਾਮਾਨੰਦ ਜੀ ਘਰੁ ੧ ੴ ਸਤਿਗੁਰ ਪ੍ਰਸਾਦਿ ॥ ਕਤ ਜਾਈਐ ਰੇ! ਘਰ ਲਾਗੋ ਰੰਗੁ ॥ ਮੇਰਾ ਚਿਤੁ ਨ ਚਲੈ, ਮਨੁ ਭਇਓ ਪੰਗੁ ॥੧॥ ਰਹਾਉ ॥

(ਕਤ) ਕਹਾਂ ਚਲੇਂ ਹਮਾਰੇ (ਘਰਿ) ਅੰਤਹਕਰਨ ਮੈਂ ਪ੍ਰਭੂ ਕਾ (ਰੰਗੁ) ਪ੍ਰੇਮ ਲਾਗਾ ਹੂਆ ਹੈ ਇਸ ਵਾਸਤੇ ਮੇਰਾ ਚਿਤ ਔਰ ਕਿਸੀ ਤਰਫ ਚਲਤਾ ਨਹੀਂ ਔਰ ਮਨ ਭੀ (ਪੰਗੁ) ਪਿੰਗਲਾ ਹੋਇਆ ਹੈ ਭਾਵ ਵਾਸਨਾ ਰਹਤ ਭ੍ਯਾ ਹੈ॥

ਏਕ ਦਿਵਸ, ਮਨ ਭਈ ਉਮੰਗ ॥ ਘਸਿ ਚੰਦਨ ਚੋਆ, ਬਹੁ ਸੁਗੰਧ ॥

ਇਕ ਦਿਨ ਮੇਰੇ ਮਨ ਵਿਖੇ (ਉਮੰਗ) ਚਾਹ ਉਤਪਤਿ ਹੂਈ ਥੀ ਚੰਦਨ ਕੋ ਘਸਾ ਕਰ ਔਰ (ਚੋਆ) ਅਤਰਾਦਿਕ ਬਹੁਤ ਪ੍ਰਕਾਰ ਸੁਗੰਧੀ ਵਾਲੀਆਂ ਵਸਤੂ ਲੈ ਕਰ॥

ਪੂਜਨ ਚਾਲੀ, ਬ੍ਰਹਮ ਠਾਇ ॥ ਸੋ ਬ੍ਰਹਮੁ ਬਤਾਇਓ, ਗੁਰ ਮਨ ਹੀ ਮਾਹਿ ॥੧॥

ਏਕ ਦੇਵ ਅਸਥਾਨ ਵਿਖੇ ਪੂਜਨ ਕਰਨੇ ਵਾਸਤੇ ਮੈਂ ਇਸਤ੍ਰੀ ਜਗਯਾਸਾ ਅਵਸਥਾ ਮੈਂ ਚਲੀ ਥੀ ਸੋ ਜਿਸ ਦੇਵ ਕੋ ਮੰਦਰ ਮੈਂ ਪੂਜਨੇ ਕੋ ਜਾਤੀ ਥੀ ਸੋ ਬ੍ਰਹਮ ਗੁਰੋਂ ਨੇ ਮਨ ਮੈਂ ਹੀ ਕਹਿ ਦੀਆ ਭਾਵ ਦਿਖਾਇ ਦੀਆ ਹੈ॥੧॥

ਜਹਾ ਜਾਈਐ, ਤਹ ਜਲ ਪਖਾਨ ॥ ਤੂ ਪੂਰਿ ਰਹਿਓ ਹੈ, ਸਭ ਸਮਾਨ ॥

ਜਹਾਂ ਜਾਈਏ ਹੈ ਤਹਾਂ ਜਲ ਔਰ (ਪਖਾਨ) ਪਥਰ ਦ੍ਰਿਸ਼ਟ ਆਵਤੇ ਹੈਂ ਭਾਵ ਤੀਰਥੋਂ ਮੈਂ ਜਲ ਔਰ ਮੰਦ੍ਰੋਂ ਮੈਂ ਪਾਖਾਂਨ ਕੀ ਮੂਰਤੀਆਂ ਹੋਤੀ ਹੈਂ ਤੂੰ ਸਭ ਮੈਂ ਸਮਾਨ ਸਤਾ ਕਰ ਪੂਰਨ ਹੋ ਰਹਾ ਹੈਂ ਐਸੇ ਗੁਰਾਂ ਨੇ ਮੇਰੇ ਕੋ ਕਹਾ ਹੈ॥

ਬੇਦ ਪੁਰਾਨ, ਸਭ ਦੇਖੇ ਜੋਇ ॥ ਊਹਾਂ ਤਉ ਜਾਈਐ, ਜਉ ਈਹਾਂ ਨ ਹੋਇ ॥੨॥

ਬੇਦ ਔਰ ਪੁਰਾਨ ਸਭ (ਜੋਇ) ਢੂੰਢ ਦੇਖੇ ਹੈਂ ਵਾ ਬੇਦ ਭੀ ਦੇਖੇ ਔ ਪੁਰਾਨ ਭੀ (ਜੋਇ) ਦੇਖੇ ਹੈਂ ਭਾਵ ਸੋ ਸ੍ਰਬ ਠਾਂ ਹਰੀ ਕੋ ਪੂਰਨ ਬਤਾਵਤੇ ਹੈਂ ਯਾਤੇ ਊਹਾਂ ਤੀਰਥ ਮੰਦ੍ਰਾਦਿਕੋਂ ਮੈਂ ਤੋ ਤੌ ਜਾਈਏ ਜੌ ਈਹਾਂ ਬ੍ਯਾਪਕਤਾ ਰੂਪ ਕਰ ਪੂਰਨ ਨਾ ਹੋਵੈ ਮੈਂ ਗੁਰਾਂ ਦਾ ਉਪਕਾਰੁ ਚਿੰਤਨ ਕਰ ਐਸੇ ਪ੍ਰਾਰਥਨਾ ਕਰਤਾ ਹਾਂ॥੨॥

ਸਤਿਗੁਰ! ਮੈ ਬਲਿਹਾਰੀ ਤੋਰ ॥ ਜਿਨਿ ਸਕਲ ਬਿਕਲ ਭ੍ਰਮ ਕਾਟੇ ਮੋਰ ॥

ਹੇ ਸਤਿਗੁਰ ਮੈਂ ਆਪਕੇ ਬਲਿਹਾਰਨੇ ਜਾਤਾ ਹੂੰ ਜਿਸਨੇ ਬਿਅਕਲਪਣਾ ਔ ਮੇਰੇ ਭਰਮੁ ਸਭ ਕਾਟ ਦੀਏ ਹੈਂ॥

ਰਾਮਾਨੰਦ ਸੁਆਮੀ, ਰਮਤ ਬ੍ਰਹਮ ॥ ਗੁਰ ਕਾ ਸਬਦੁ, ਕਾਟੈ ਕੋਟਿ ਕਰਮ ॥੩॥੧॥

ਰਾਮਾ ਨੰਦ ਜੀ ਕਹਤੇ ਹੈਂ ਸੁਆਮੀ ਬ੍ਰਹਮ ਸਭ ਵਿਖੇ ਰਮ ਰਹਾ ਹੈ ਪਰੰਤੂ ਜਬ ਕਰੋੜੋਂ ਕਰਮੋਂ ਕੋ ਗੁਰੋਂ ਕਾ ਸਬਦੁ ਕਾਟ ਦੇਤਾ ਹੈ ਤਬ ਪ੍ਰਾਪਤਿ ਹੋਤਾ ਹੈ॥੩॥੧॥

[Bijla Singh]

Another propaganda by sharia sikhs, i just dont get it man, you calling giani gurdit singh (tat khalsa) which came with british ferengi sgpc movement not more than 100 years old as "Puratan source" ?

Puratan sources have been cited before. Re-read my posts first. Giani Gurdit Singh did not come up with a new theory but presented his findings from sources like Meharbaan Janamsakhi and other granths. Goindwal Pothis, Kabir Mansoor and other sources prove that Ramanand and other Bhagats became Sikhs.

Story about Bhagat Ji's birth is nothing but a joke. Sikhi is not an anti-scientific way of life. Neither Sikhi nor science approves of such a story. A Guru knows everything and does not make mistakes. If the story is true (which it is not) then it is obvious that Ramanand did not know that the woman was a widow which does not make him a Guru at all. Waheguru has established a way for the creation to come into existence and it cannot be changed.

I don't think you understand the way Vaars are written. I rather not spend too much time on this but I will write a paper in the future explaining the system of writings and message delivered through these vaars. I do not believe purpose of Bhai Gurdas Ji was to write bunch of known stories but to deliver a moral Gurmat oriented message. The last lines clearly say that "meeting with the Guru" which can only mean Guru Sahib. No one else is given the same title in Gurbani or in Vaars.

Satguru - Gurbani refers to Waheguru and Guru Sahib as Satguru and there is only one Satguru in the world because both (Akal and Guru) are the same. Bhagat Ramanand Ji refers to his Guru as Satguru which has to be Guru Sahib because naam cannot be obtained without Satguru and Gurbani would not accept anyone else (Ramanand's Guru if he was someone other than Guru Sahib) as Satguru. Guru shows the way to Waheguru which to Bhagat Ji was shown by Guru Sahib. If Bhagat Ji refers to someone else then clearly he is praising a person which cannot be in accord to Bani. If he refers to Waheguru then it cannot be true because Waheguru cannot be realized without Guru. I hope I made it clear.

[kaur_khalistani_lioness]

sorry ...this might complicate things..nd show my lack of knowldge again!

but who was the guru of Guru Nanak dev ji? (if we are saying that waheguru can only be realized through Satguru and that our Guru sahib is the only SATGURU) :sady:

forgive my foolishness and lack of understanding

[lowest of the low singhni]

vaheguru ji ka khalsa vaheguru ji ki fateh

Story about Bhagat Ji's birth is nothing but a joke. Sikhi is not an anti-scientific way of life. Neither Sikhi nor science approves of such a story. A Guru knows everything and does not make mistakes. If the story is true (which it is not) then it is obvious that Ramanand did not know that the woman was a widow which does not make him a Guru at all. Waheguru has established a way for the creation to come into existence and it cannot be changed.

Bhai Sahib, sorry if i sound stupid here :D . I understand that Vaheguru has established a set way for creation to exist, but would He not also have the power to change it? I would have thought anything is possible, considering that Akaal Purakh has no limits. Maybe not all "holy men" or "gurus" of that time were actual Brahmgianis, but maybe they did have some powers through Maharaj.

Maybe there are too many maybes in there. But I just thought I'd chip in, I might learn something.

Satguru - Gurbani refers to Waheguru and Guru Sahib as Satguru and there is only one Satguru in the world because both (Akal and Guru) are the same. Bhagat Ramanand Ji refers to his Guru as Satguru which has to be Guru Sahib because naam cannot be obtained without Satguru and Gurbani would not accept anyone else (Ramanand's Guru if he was someone other than Guru Sahib) as Satguru. Guru shows the way to Waheguru which to Bhagat Ji was shown by Guru Sahib. If Bhagat Ji refers to someone else then clearly he is praising a person which cannot be in accord to Bani. If he refers to Waheguru then it cannot be true because Waheguru cannot be realized without Guru. I hope I made it clear.

I don't understand the "Waheguru cannot be realized without Guru" bit. We follow Sikhi because that was the path laid down for us, right? Yet Dhru and Prahlaad realised Vaheguru, and as far as I know they didn't exactly have a "Guru". Or did you mean something else? Gurbani teaches us that there is no need for a middleman/woman to help to reach Akaal Purakh, and Guru Gobind Singh Ji himself condemned (that's not the right word) anyone worshipping him as God.

:D

~l~

vaheguru ji ka khalsa vaheguru ji ki fateh

[Guest waheguruji]

Hindus call anyone a Guru because they see it as a teacher or guide

Gurbani states the Perfect Guru is Guru (God) himself in its puriest form the Wah (amazing) e (is) Gu (dispeller of darkness of igronance) Ru (enlightner of the heart with true knowlegde of God) because this Guru never dies etc (described in Mool Mantar)

Kabir Ji states clearly in his writings about the Guru (God) and he praises Ramanand as his guide to realising the Guru Ramanand is body why would Kabir Ji call him his Guru (okay Sant or Mahatama yes)

[Guest Papi]

pauVI ]

pourree ||

Pauree:

ibnu siqgur iknY n pwieE ibnu siqgur iknY n pwieAw ]

bin sathigur kinai n paaeiou bin sathigur kinai n paaeiaa ||

Without the True Guru, no one has obtained the Lord; without the True Guru, no one has obtained the Lord.

siqgur ivic Awpu riKEnu kir prgtu AwiK suxwieAw ]

sathigur vich aap rakhioun kar paragatt aakh sunaaeiaa ||

He has placed Himself within the True Guru; revealing Himself, He declares this openly.

siqgur imilAY sdw mukqu hY ijin ivchu mohu cukwieAw ]

sathigur miliai sadhaa mukath hai jin vichahu mohu chukaaeiaa ||

Meeting the True Guru, eternal liberation is obtained; He has banished attachment from within.

auqmu eyhu bIcwru hY ijin scy isau icqu lwieAw ]

outham eaehu beechaar hai jin sachae sio chith laaeiaa ||

This is the highest thought, that one's consciousness is attached to the True Lord.

jgjIvnu dwqw pwieAw ]6]

jagajeevan dhaathaa paaeiaa ||6||

Thus the Lord of the World, the Great Giver is obtained. ||6||

also,

pwrbRhm gur nwhI Byd ]4]11]24]

paarabreham gur naahee bhaedh ||4||11||24||

There is no difference between the Supreme Lord God and the Guru. ||4||11||24||

[Bijla Singh]

There is no difference between Guru Sahib and Akal Purakh. Guru Sahib is not the "middle man". Without Naam no one can get salvation. Naam is obtained from Guru only. There i sonly one Guru, Guru Nanak Sahib. No one else is Guru or equal to Guru.

Dhru and Prehlad - The following is the answer. The same question was answered before by Bhai Balpreet Singh. I am simply doing copy and paste.

It seems to me that Guru Nanak used to do kirpa on selected bhagats and bless them with Gurmat Naam. Svaiyay M: 5 kay tell us "Siri Guru Sahib Sabh Oopar. Karee Kirpa Satjug jin Dhroo par. Sree Prehlaad Bhagat Udhreeang. Haso kamal mathay par dhareeang." This means that Siri Guru Sahib (this clearly means Guru Nanak since it is the Bhattan Day Saviayay and they are talking about glory of Guru Nanak), does kirpa on everyone. In Satjug he blessed Dhroo. He saved Prehlaad. He put his lotus hands on their forehead (I always take this to mean gave them naam, just like naam is give the same way now).

In the same bandh it says "Gur parsaad prabh paieeai, gur bin mukat na hoi" meaning only by Guru's grace is Vahiguru found and without a Guru no one is mukat." The very next line says "Guru Nanak Nikat basai banvaree" and goes on to talk about Guru Angad, Guru Amardas and Guru Ram Das. This is all the same bandh, not a new one.

It is clear that the Guru is only Guru Nanak. It is clear that without Guru Nanak no one can be saved. And it is clear that Guru Nanak himself did kirpa and gave naam to Dhroo and Prehlaad.

Creation

Guru Sahib says that "Bahar Hukam Na Koai". Hukam means "Niyam". Waheguru has established ways or Niyams for everything and without any reason He will not change them although He is capable of doing everything. According to Gurbani:

"From the union of the mother's egg and the father's sperm, the form of infinite beauty has been created." (Ang 1022)

Gurbani is the pure truth and never wrong. If we accept the story of Bhagat Ji then by the same argument we will have to accept story of jarasindh, hanumaan etc. which would mean that Gurbani is wrong and creation can take place by other means.

[N30S1NGH]

There is no difference between Guru Sahib and Akal Purakh. Guru Sahib is not the "middle man". Without Naam no one can get salvation. Naam is obtained from Guru only. There i sonly one Guru, Guru Nanak Sahib. No one else is Guru or equal to Guru.

Dhru and Prehlad - The following is the answer. The same question was answered before by Bhai Balpreet Singh. I am simply doing copy and paste.

It seems to me that Guru Nanak used to do kirpa on selected bhagats and bless them with Gurmat Naam. Svaiyay M: 5 kay tell us "Siri Guru Sahib Sabh Oopar. Karee Kirpa Satjug jin Dhroo par. Sree Prehlaad Bhagat Udhreeang. Haso kamal mathay par dhareeang." This means that Siri Guru Sahib (this clearly means Guru Nanak since it is the Bhattan Day Saviayay and they are talking about glory of Guru Nanak), does kirpa on everyone. In Satjug he blessed Dhroo. He saved Prehlaad. He put his lotus hands on their forehead (I always take this to mean gave them naam, just like naam is give the same way now).

In the same bandh it says "Gur parsaad prabh paieeai, gur bin mukat na hoi" meaning only by Guru's grace is Vahiguru found and without a Guru no one is mukat." The very next line says "Guru Nanak Nikat basai banvaree" and goes on to talk about Guru Angad, Guru Amardas and Guru Ram Das. This is all the same bandh, not a new one.

It is clear that the Guru is only Guru Nanak. It is clear that without Guru Nanak no one can be saved. And it is clear that Guru Nanak himself did kirpa and gave naam to Dhroo and Prehlaad.

Creation

Guru Sahib says that "Bahar Hukam Na Koai". Hukam means "Niyam". Waheguru has established ways or Niyams for everything and without any reason He will not change them although He is capable of doing everything. According to Gurbani:

"From the union of the mother's egg and the father's sperm, the form of infinite beauty has been created." (Ang 1022)

Gurbani is the pure truth and never wrong. If we accept the story of Bhagat Ji then by the same argument we will have to accept story of jarasindh, hanumaan etc. which would mean that Gurbani is wrong and creation can take place by other means.

You are not proving anything bijla singh , all you doing is mis-interperted gurbani (context of satguru/guru arth) to suit your own agenda(tat khalsa) which is absorbing bhagats into your sharia matt which is defaniately an "enemy" of "Gurmat". I ll tell you guys this sharia matt wale diya kurtata, first when sharia matta wale sikhs start uprising, they start doing kintu prantu on bhagat wale bani, bhasuaria panthis started removing bhagat banis by claims bhagats were not rehitdhari bibekdhari khalsa , they were not amritdhari, thats what their whole basis was upon then they start cyncially absorbing bhagats into sikhs of satguru nanak ,.. thats blaphsemy, this destroys diversity in gurbani, this disapproves many gurbani quotes which talks about expereince of bhagats with their teachers. This people are modern day bhasuaria panthis eating the opendmindness, diversity of sri guru nanak dev ji beautiful garden.

Once again,

In gurbani,

Satguru/Guru is used for -

- Sri Akaal Purkh

- Guru Sahiban (Sri guru nanak dev ji )

- Guru (spiritual teacher/murshid) - this one is used mostly by bhagats to describe their teachers.

Sri Guru Sahiban included bhagats and devotion towards god in form of writing, poets in gurbani. Sri Guru Sahiban have accepted them as true sikhs(bhagats) of their own "guru", this shows diversity in sri guru gobind singh ji khalsa panth. When their writings were included in the gurbani , they were not asked to accept khalsa bana, Guru's dristi was much much higher than chamar dristi like us. Guru Dristi recnognize them as " jevan mukhts", there was no need for anything else. There was no need for bhagat kabir or any bhagat to get naam or anything from satguru nanak. They were already mukht. Satguru nanak dev ji included their writings in gurbani which talks about bhagats devotion towards their gurdev and naam.

bhagats which are included in sri guru granth sahib ji didnt follow socio-religious boundaries of their own dharam (ie- islam, hinduism) they belong mystical orders of their dharam ie- sufi, shavism, advait vedanta.

All the bhagats which are included in sri guru granth sahib ji were jevan mukht, they didnt belong to any specific dharam, they were not hard core followers of hindu panth nor they were rehitdhari khalsa, they were all almast fakirs who didnt gave two hoots about socio-religious-economic boundaries of their own religions or others.

In my eyes, all the bhagats were sikhs didnt need to be khalsa in order to get jevan mukhti, they were already jevan mukht you can tell that by their gurbani included in sri guru granth sahib ji.

Sikh and Khalsa are same when it comes to avastha but these are relative terrms ie- different type of intiation for eg- kabir panthis or sufi farid followers their intitation may be different than khalsa but internal bhramgyan amrit is one, they are relative terms could be both applied in socio-religious circle (panthic maryada) as well mystical traditions of any dharam.

For example:

In Sri Sarbloh Granth Sahib:

Atam Ras Neh Jannehi Sio Haie Khalsa Dev,

Prab Meh Mo Meh Tas Meh Ranchak Naeh Bhaiv ||

The one who has entered the sphere of atma(self), he alone is worthy of the title of the khalsa, he becomes one with me the guru and ultimately God.There is no difference.

Above quote can be applied both ways to a) an khalsa who have taken intiation of khanda batta amrit and applied guru maharaj sikhi in his/her life and tasted atam ras.

Above quote also dedicated (if you look at it more antriv(Deeply) arths to b) anyone of any dharam abroad away from socio-religious circle(panthic circle) to anyone who has realize his own true self(atma).

Now lets look at this quote:

Here Guru Gobind singh ji directly explains Khalsa.

"The Khalsa is my exceptional Image,

In the Khalsa ever resides my Spirit.

The Khalsa is my Beloved and Venerable Master,

The Khalsa is my divine Protector.

The Khalsa is my Father and Mother,

The Khalsa is my body and soul.

The Khalsa is embodiment of true and perfect Guru.

The Khalsa is my Gallant and Knightly friend.

I have stated the truth without an iota of misconstruction.

God and Guru Nanak are to this my witnesses."

Guru Gobind Singh, Sarb Loh Granth, (MS), 519-526.

This quote looks like more dedicated towards khalsa from socio-religious circle than from mystical circle.

Guys, if gurmat gursikhi marg was that simple then we wouldnt need bhramgyanis in the panth, any tom, di ck , harry scholar can decipher gurmat gursikhi marg.

Last but not least, here are few words of my teacher, he puts all well together- listen to it:

http://www.gurmarag.net/SikhAwareness/Audi...0is%20anadi.mp3

[N30S1NGH]

Creation

Guru Sahib says that "Bahar Hukam Na Koai". Hukam means "Niyam". Waheguru has established ways or Niyams for everything and without any reason He will not change them although He is capable of doing everything. According to Gurbani:

"From the union of the mother's egg and the father's sperm, the form of infinite beauty has been created." (Ang 1022)

Gurbani is the pure truth and never wrong. If we accept the story of Bhagat Ji then by the same argument we will have to accept story of jarasindh, hanumaan etc. which would mean that Gurbani is wrong and creation can take place by other means.

For us normal human beings, yes reproduction is only way (mothers egg/father sperm) to come into this world but guru, bhramgyanis , karaks have alternative methods all according to his hakum, they dont have to be in the womb, they can come and go to this world without being in the womb. They can take any akar or aloop any time.

There are many stories of gurus, from travelling one sphere to another to being fully aloop(sri guru nanak dev ji being fully aloop as they couldnt find guru ji's body). so sikhi doesnt bound to sceince or sceintific rules, you been just reading too many books on inderjit singh ghugga i beleive which made you disapprove sakhi of bhagat kabirs birth by calling it anti- sceintific, i ask you half of sikh history of gurus were karamata in the hakum, what were those by your standards? lies, bakvas etc?

Acha you can explain the sangat these quotes then, its talks about the creation, creation doesnt bound by mothers egg and father's sperm only or ridicoulous adam'eves' theory:

Here:

Pirthame On(g)kar So Dhun Poran Jagat Mae Raha ||

Fist ongkar was recited and that resosance created world and give nourishment to this world. (Siri Guru Gobind Singh Ji, Dasam Granth Sahib)

Ongkar aad kathni anad, Khal Khand Khyal Gurbar Akaal ||

Ongkar Bhrama Utpat ||

bhrama(creator) came from ongkar resosance.

Ongkar Kiya Jin Chit ||

Then bhrama did bhagti on ongkar for thousands of years. After that Nirgun asked him, what do you want? Bhram asked god to give him powers to create the world.

Ongkar Saiyel Jug Paie ||

Ongkar Vaid Nirvaie ||

Guru Nanak Dev Ji said, with ongkar - Nirgun transcedents it's attributes into sargun