Bhagat Kabir Ji

[kaur_khalistani_lioness]

i thought it was ramanadh ji who was the guru of kabir ji.i even hv read the sakhi of how kabir ji was tested by his guru but i couldnt recall his name.

the true guru is Akal purakh. that was my understanding of it all of sikhi. that khalsa/sikh(human) is to follow Akals hukum nd his bani. thatour guru sahib told us to not have a "middle man" between us and Akal!

i really dont knwo anything ...and prolly my mind accepted something that wasn't true :sady:

i have always thought that the guru ofall bhagats and other spiritual beings (mahapurakhs) is only one and that is the creator(Akal/Allah...whatver we wanna call that param soul)

[Bijla Singh]

First of all, "Guru Ji's Sipahi" both Shabads are the same. Guru Ji included his bani where more explanation was needed to explain the concept. Bhagat Ji and Guru Sahib are talking about the same thing.

That being said, "Panth.ki.jit" you will have to show some puratan references to prove that Bhagat Ji died 71 years before Guru Sahib. Meharbaan Janamsakhi and Kabir Mansoor Granth written by Dharam Daas mention Guru Sahib meeting with Bhagat Ji several times. Bhai Mohan Pothis say clearly NAMA KABIR, BHAGAT GUR BAABAY KE ||" before their respective Banis are recorded.

It is also clearly written in the old Janamsaakhis of Guru Nanak Dev jee that Siri Guru Nanak Dev jee met Bhagat Ramanand jee, Bhagat Kabir jee, Bhagat Ravidaas jee and many other bhagats in Auyodhiya where Gurdwara Sahib stands today. Bhagat Ramanand jee and Guru Nanak Dev jee had a very long discussion on very mystical and deep subjects of Gurmat. In the end, Bhagat Ramanand jee who was the Guru of most Bhagats at that time, bowed in the feet of Guru Nanak Dev jee and asked for Naam. Janamsaakhi writes the following:

“TAB BABA BAHUT HASIYAA. KEHAN LAGAA, GOSAAYEEN JEE, TUSSI TAAN SABH KUCHH JAANDE HO”.

But Bhagat Ramanand jee persisted and eventually got Naam Daan from Guru Sahib. Bhagat Ji’s Shabad is the very proof of it.

ਰਾਮਾਨੰਦ ਜੀ ਘਰੁ 1

ੴ ਸਤਿਗੁਰ ਪ੍ਰਸਾਦਿ ॥

ਕਤ ਜਾਈਐ ਰੇ ਘਰ ਲਾਗੋ ਰੰਗੁ ॥ ਮੇਰਾ ਚਿਤੁ ਨ ਚਲੈ ਮਨੁ ਭਇਓ ਪੰਗੁ ॥1॥ ਰਹਾਉ ॥

ਏਕ ਦਿਵਸ ਮਨ ਭਈ ਉਮੰਗ ॥ ਘਸਿ ਚੰਦਨ ਚੋਆ ਬਹੁ ਸੁਗੰਧ ॥

ਪੂਜਨ ਚਾਲੀ ਬ੍ਰਹਮ ਠਾਇ ॥ ਸੋ ਬ੍ਰਹਮੁ ਬਤਾਇਓ ਗੁਰ ਮਨ ਹੀ ਮਾਹਿ ॥1॥

ਜਹਾ ਜਾਈਐ ਤਹ ਜਲ ਪਖਾਨ ॥ ਤੂ ਪੂਰਿ ਰਹਿਓ ਹੈ ਸਭ ਸਮਾਨ ॥

ਬੇਦ ਪੁਰਾਨ ਸਭ ਦੇਖੇ ਜੋਇ ॥ ਊਹਾਂ ਤਉ ਜਾਈਐ ਜਉ ਈਹਾਂ ਨ ਹੋਇ ॥2॥

ਸਤਿਗੁਰ ਮੈ ਬਲਿਹਾਰੀ ਤੋਰ ॥ ਜਿਨਿ ਸਕਲ ਬਿਕਲ ਭ੍ਰਮ ਕਾਟੇ ਮੋਰ ॥

ਰਾਮਾਨੰਦ ਸੁਆਮੀ ਰਮਤ ਬ੍ਰਹਮ ॥ ਗੁਰ ਕਾ ਸਬਦੁ ਕਾਟੈ ਕੋਟਿ ਕਰਮ ॥3॥1॥

Bhagat Ji clearly says that Shabad of Guru eradicated millions of past karmas. He also says he is sacrificed to the Satguru. According to Gurbani, there is only one Satguru, Guru Nanak Sahib. Therefore, the Shabad proves that Bhagat Ji revealed it after getting Naam from Guru Sahib. Hence, all Bhagats including Ramanand Ji became Sikhs of Guru Sahib. Their bani after becoming Guruwala was included in Guru Granth Sahib. Everything else before that was rejected.

[N30S1NGH]

Trend of linking all the bhagats in gurbani as follower of sri guru nanak dev ji is not a new one, it's been going around 100 years when new tat khalsa came into existence. They were some how not mukht before arrival of satguru nanak dev ji, and they got mukhti only upon meeting satguru nanak dev ji.

Samparda's usually have beleif that bhagat namdev, bhagat kabir, bhagat ravidas, bhagat dhanna, baba farid were all back as panj pyares as mentioned in puratan granth- bhai rattan singh bhangu granth- Sri Guru Panth Parkash.

But to make it sound like - these bhagats were somehow not mukht before that they had to come back and take amrit as panj pyares is tottally out of order.

I just had extremely long discussion with bhai sahib balpreet singh ji from tapoban on Gurmat Naam:

http://www.sikhsangat.com/index.php?s=&amp...st&p=198733

Please go through it, and leave your feedback. It be must appreciated on here.

I think there is a fine line difference between having full sharda of satguru nanak dev ji being 100% guru avtar, highest avtar of all (shared by samparda's- nirmale, taksal, nanaksar etc etc), yet reserving full respect for other guru mahatama's of other mats and making satguru nanak dev ji as one and only one true satguru who introduced higher reality(sachkhand) in kalyug for gursikhs only. No one before satguru nanak dev ji managed attained/reach sachkhand because no one until satguru nanak dev ji had real "gurmat naam" and sachkhand(higher reality) to merge with divine was first introduced by satguru nanak dev ji patsah.

[N30S1NGH]

I don't know however to make it sound that some how they were not mukht that's why they came, i fully disagree with that approach because that negatates the whole updesh (universal updesh) of sri guru granth sahib ji. Here is my reasoning that i disagree.

There are two issues-

1. I think real core- amrit is only one which is naam amrit from gurdev (adhatamically speaking) and naam amrit from panj pyares(socio religious context in dharam) and that's it, khanda da amrit, charan da amrit or any kinda intiation amrit are known as sanskar amrit or amrit sanskar in puratan times.

2. All the bhagats rachna, their feeling of oneness with akaal purkh in form of writings- quotes, poetic stanzas was already out there and used by many people before satguru maharaj came to this earth as king of kings to do udhaar of kalyugi jivs like us. That shows that, bhagats were in turiya avastha before satguru ji came.

The whole issue i m having hard to accept is not that bhagats had to come and take khanda batta da amrit as rattan singh bhangu mentioned in the granth he wrote, off course anything is possible in hakum of akaal purkh, off course when this atma is re- born as jiv atma, divine law doesnt discriminate with dharms and all that but the whole issue i m having is- sikhs have used that and they made it sound like as if they were not mukht atma and they came to get amrit to get mukhti but fact is they were already mukht as you know by their feeling in form of writings.

This quote is one of many quotes of bhagats included in gurbani describing their turiya avastha.

Kabir Jis Maran Jagat Daraie Mera Mann Anand, maran hi paie poora parmanand ||

[kaur_khalistani_lioness]

whats turiya avastha?

and thats how i thought as well Namstang

randeep singh makes sense as well

why is our hist so confusing?

[Bijla Singh]

Sources I presented state that Bhagats met Guru Sahib while they were alive and became Sikhs not that they had to take another life. There is no difference between Guru Nanak Sahib and Guru Gobind Singh Ji. So after becoming Sikhs in 15th century and getting naam they didn't have to come back again to do the same thing (take amrit to get naam).

[Pakandi baba]

any of u have read this book?

i was jus browsing to knwo more about bhagat kabir ji nd ended up readin these kool sakhis about him

http://www.spiritualawakeningradio.com/anurag_01_intro.pdf

this is teh main page:

http://www.spiritualawakeningradio.com/anurag.html

:D :D :nihungsmile:

[sikhlionz]

http://rajkaregakhalsa.net/khalsa/bhagatkabir.htm

.

[kds1980]

can someone provide a reference for bhagat kabeer jee being supposedly against women?

http://www.allaboutsikhs.com/articles/role...in-sikhism.html

Sant Kabir asked men to shun the company of women as 'Kabira tin ki kya gat jo nit nari kai sang'. She was looked down upon as a potential temptress.

[Bijla Singh]

The article has no reference. Where is it stated that the line you just quoted is of Bhagat Kabir Ji? Is it in Gurbani? List the Ang. Once again, Bhagat Ji's work that is in Kabir Mansoor was not accepted because he wasn't a Sikh then.