Are women to blame?

[AK-47]

Vaheguru ji ka khalsa Vaheguru ji ki fateh

Are women to blame for the state of sikhi as it is in this modern world?

This is by no means meant to be an attack on women at all, just a question which arose in my mind after reading another post on women being under-represented.

Have women actually carried out their roles in the panth? In the sense that, a mother is meant to have the most influence over the newborn child. A mother is suppossed to have the closest link with the baby. A mother is meant to be the educator for the child. (Not that the father has no role in this, but given the way tradition and society is it's usually the mothers role). Forgive me if im wrong, but isnt one of the roles of a mother to teach the child about sikhi and the the guru's? I cant remember now but i was told there is some gurbani or some type of religious order which says "a mother who doesnt teach her child about god is cursed"?

Basically the question is, have mothers carried out this role of education and instilling of virtues in thir children? This is both in the punjab over the last few decades and here in the uk/west for children born here.

We see many mothers who attend gurdwara do seva etc, but their children have no clue about sikhi, is this the fault of society or is there some lack of parchar done at home?

obviously some children just dont take to sikhi, but seriously how much parchar is being done at home?

People often say that women are not often seen doing parchar in the open, this is true and often we have searched for women speakers but its virtually impossible to find one. why? surely women should be the most experienced and suitable for doing parch

ar having taught their children?

Should fathers take up the mantle of doing parchar to their children? Should traditional society be flipped, and fathers raise the children rather than women??

Also women in most societies make the front line in any strugle that the community faces. But what is wrong with ours? In any march/demonstration why are women's organisations not there? E.g the marches that happen in June in central london for the remberance of the attack on harimandir sahib in 84, how many women do we see? look at the palestinians or the jews, their women take action and are the loudest and most passionate spokes-people for their causes... are our women asleep?

Governments and people always take more women of women when they protest, much more than they do when a group of bearded men shout and march.. so why dont they?

Why dont womens org's lobby the govt on behalf of our widowed mothers and raped sisters in delhi and punjab?

It seems that we are able to mobilise when it comes to a problem of doing seva at harimandir sahib, but why doesnt the same mobilisation take place when it concerns real suffering of sikh women who have actually suffered and sacrificied their famlies for sikhi??

Again would like to say, im not trying to attack women, but just questioning their role and contribution in these days, other than a few examples how many women actually get involved in sikh issues? Is it the fault of men, or of society or am i just a woman hating male pig?! :T:

Vaheguru ji ka khalsa Vaheguru ji ki fateh

[serenity]

ak-47 thanks for bringing up this topic, let me tell the sangat what has happened from my perspective.

Every time a woman has tried to represent females in the gurdwara or any public high flying role (thus being a role model) she has been shot down by...you guessed it, sikh men with beards and turbans.

Insults, slander, personal attacks, intimidation and manipulation will and has been used by lots of sikh men to reduce or demeen women back down the scale to the point where they are satisfied women should be. Many women just cannot and will not take this sort of behaviour.

However in regards to the education of her children, the majority of sikh women I see have so much to do with regards to work (employement), cooking, cleaning, feeding, doing stuff for inlaws, looking after kids, and generally running around with no time for education for their children. It shouldn't be like this when both husband and wife support each other, but thats for the future. Right now, and in the past, it hasn't happened.

I think women have done the best they can. :T:

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[ADMIN NOTE] : DO NOT THROW INSULT ON SIkh men with Turban and beard. Just letting you go th

is time !

[Summeet Kaur]

The mother is the backbone for her husband, family, and of course children..

Veerji, you don't have to be from India to be close to culture, Sikhi, or language..sadly, Sikhi in India is not what many of us think it to be I know I wouldn't be half of the Sikh I am today if I wasn't living in North America...

[Jassika]

Well one thing I agree about against women is that compared to the men a very low number keeps their hair and have keskis. At the gurdwara the womens line is usually longer though but I feel disgusted to see so many ladies wearing makeup and have other things done to their face. But the role of teaching children sikhi should be equally shared between the mother and father

[JSingh]

This is very interesting topic and it is a good thing that there are lots of women on this forum. I have mixed opinions, and here they are:

Some women like to stay inferior to men, such as their husbands. No matter what the husband says or does, they will not protest or speak against husband's wrong doings.

I have seen this, and I am seeing it in our house. It is not women's fault, but the society they were brought up in and taught this inferiority. Mostly our grandmothers and mothers fall under this category.

Now, the things are changing. We have time and resources to learn and share Sikh Values with one another. The girls today know their rights and they are much more out spoken than their mothers and/or grandmothers who had to live under their husbands' rules.

As far as raising the kids, I think mother has the closest connention with the child. The child stays inside the mother for 9 months. It is true that both parents have to participate in the activity to bring the child in this world, but it is the mother who keeps that child inside her stomach all the way through. It is the mother who has to bear the pain in labor, it is the mother who has to go though the, as Prof. Darshan Singh Ji said, gate of death.

I am not sure if it is Sri Guru Granth Sahib Ji or Bhai Gurdas Ji's bani that says that mother's activities when the child is in her womb affect the child to a great extent, such as mother's diet, the state of her mind, how much simran she does, etc. etc. Now the science also supports this.

So as we have seen that how much mother is related to the child before child's birth, and there should not be any question or doubt

about mother's importance after the child is born. The first nourishment for the child is mother's milk, breatfeeding, the ONLY best food for a child at that age. Sadly, most women in these western countries do not like to breastfeed their kids. Today's science has proven that mother's milk is the BEST nourishment for a child.

I think there is a shabad in Sri Guru Granth Sahib Ji or in Bhai Gurdas Ji's vaaran that says that a mother can make the child Sant if she wants to. I could not find this shabad online, if someone remembers it please post it here. There is another shabad that I am able to find that says,

jin har hirdai naam na basi-o tin maat keejai har baaNjhaa.

tin sunjee dayh fireh bin naavai o-ay khap khap mu-ay karaaNjhaa. ||1|| (SGGS Ji, 697)

The Lord`s Name does not abide within their hearts - their mothers should have been sterile.

These bodies wander around, forlorn and abandoned, without the Name; their lives waste away, and they die, crying out in pain. ||1||

There is also a saying that goes like this: 'there is a woman's hand in every man's success'.

As we can see, mother plays a very important role in child's life, even before the child comes to this world. However, from this we should not conclude that father is there just for fun. These are only a few mother's roles in child's life that I could think of. Please bring up fathers' roles too, his responsibilites, and duties.

Please frogive me if i have hurt anyone.

bhul chuk di khima,

Jaswant (Singh)

[GABROO KHALISTAN DAH]

truth is ma bina duniya suuni ahhh

she is god 2 us, if she has sikhi u will have sikhi

[S1ngh]

If it wasn't my mum.. i wouldn't be what im today (at least a sikh in roop)..

Dads are lazy (hope my pop don't read this )

[GABROO KHALISTAN DAH]

tha's true i would'nt bo so pro khalistan or trying to get into sikhi if it wuz'nt for my mom lecturing me about shaheeds on my walks 2 school

[Guest balwinderkaur]

Dads are lazy

Vickey veerjee,, in all honesty, i must say i AGREE with you 100% and more on that. Its sooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooo true true true true. *not dissing dads here.....fathers around here... don't take it too personally..maybe your case of parenting style is different. i'll acknowledge that. good if you're not a lazy dad. *

Moms are the ones who are usually responsible for bringing their child into sikhee.....if not for my mom forcing me to sit down and listen to her explain sukhmani sahib and using a danda and encyclopaedia(i'm serious ....and goodness gracious did that hurt like crazy ) to whack me each time i made mistakes or was reluctant to sit down and practise keertan.....i would never be what i am today.

[Gill]

i agree with you AK-47, especially the majority of women born outside of india, girls are starting to drink, cut they're hair, pierce thier ears and dye thier hair.

women should fix thier own gender first, and then i believe they will get respect from men no problem