Eye Witness Account

[randip singh]

Who's talking about performing magic tricks to prove ones greatness?

Is this the "modern" and "scientifically" approved version of this story? Sounds like it is. According to your logic, Baba Deep Singh who you have a picture up of didnt fight with his head in hand, he probably put his head under his shirt and put a fake head in his hand with goats blood dripping all over, lol.

And are you saying that no Gurus performed miracles or are you saying they werent capable of performing them? If you believe the latter, then lets just stop this right here because i have nothing more to say to u.

And in the future please refrain from twisting and using gurbani to fit your own manmat agenda.

Fateh.

Miracles, Voodoo and magic tricks is precisely the point...............our Guru's didn't believe in it or practice it.

As for Baba Deep Singh.......again, this is a modern day interpretation of what happened.................there are other accounts that he had a fatal gash to his neck so deep that it appeared is head was severed.......such was the bravery and the resilience of the man.....he carried on fighting.

Try reading actual historical accounts rather than the Vaishnav late 19th century misinterpretation of the Sikh religion.

.....and please do not accuse me of Manmat.....the page of Bani is there for all to be seen...............sorry your massive Ego is so bruised!!!

[ms514]

[Hardeep__singh]

plain madness in this thread....haahahahaha people are actually questioning the Guru ji's power...oh my god! oh bless u children! Questioning his powers, well it shows how immature people are.

[jassa]

plain madness in this thread....haahahahaha people are actually questioning the Guru ji's power...oh my god! oh bless u children! Questioning his powers, well it shows how immature people are.

u know buddy this earth was square and guru nanak dev ji gave it a round shape ..... if u agree its ok ... if u dont ur questioning gurus power ... right ????

[dhan sikhi]

plain madness in this thread....haahahahaha people are actually questioning the Guru ji's power...oh my god! oh bless u children! Questioning his powers, well it shows how immature people are.

u know buddy this earth was square and guru nanak dev ji gave it a round shape ..... if u agree its ok ... if u dont ur questioning gurus power ... right ????

whaaat? :lol: @ i dont see any point of this argument! its jus time waste!

[Guest Dancing Warrior]

Jassa, there is no point debating on a forum in which the moderators are clearly bias, promote racism, homophobia and support terrorism despite all the happy hippy articles they have scrolling on the right side margin. This forum is not about spreading understanding and tolerance its more about segregation via a neo-elitist mentality it supports the birth of fascism with Sikhi.

This is a very sad situation but it is the truth that is not by opinion concocted from thin air it is evident in the archives of this hate asylum. The Hindu phobia is pretty much obvious but there is also a support and dislike to other groups such as Nihangs below is an extract which clearly shows the behaviour and intent of the moderators.

Here is an extract from a member which clearly states his motives, actions and endorsements by the moderators which shows a clear uncut bias towards a certain mindset.

Jul 29 2003, 11:21 AM MKhalsa

LOL!!!!

heres a good summary of the whole page:

"Let's recap.

1. Nang tries his usual 'free advertising campaign' on this forum

2. I delete his post

3. Nang posts his ad again

4. I delete his post

5. I post the reason for the deletion and also post copy of nang's post in the moderators thread for comment

6. Within 26 minutes of my posting the reason for deletion someone gets a new member id as 'searcher/st

7. Sandeep Singh and various members and moderators support my decision to delete nang's handiwork.

Sikhforlife continues ...

I support the moderators.. we need to stop those ppl sending the wrong message of sikhi.

How very very sad.

[jassa]

big brother .... when people try to supress you ... they start talking about u ....

that means ur in chardikalla ... ur kaum is in chardikalla ...

and akali nehang panth is in chardikalla ....

have u seen any thread against other sampardas or khalistan or against any thing by a nehang singh .... NO ... u will very hardly find one ....

because our gurdevs and ustads havent taught us such stuff ... for us all of them our brothers ... and if they dont feel they same .. they will be questioned by guru ....

so give ur opinion in everything no matter people listen or not ...

[Hardeep__singh]

plain madness in this thread....haahahahaha people are actually questioning the Guru ji's power...oh my god! oh bless u children! Questioning his powers, well it shows how immature people are.

u know buddy this earth was square and guru nanak dev ji gave it a round shape ..... if u agree its ok ... if u dont ur questioning gurus power ... right ????

am sorry i didint understand ur point you made in relation my post! am baffled, i know what u mean, but i can relate it to what i said! hmm!

[singhjij]

This story is totally fake. Neither guru ji told to anyone what happened on that occasion because he done all thing inside tent nor he write anything about this. These things are prepared by some panth virodi jathebandis like RSS or else because they want to finish the sikhi.

[Veerji]

Vaaheguroo Jee Kaa Khalsaa Vaaheguroo Jee Kee Fatehh!

That is indeed an amazing story, if it is true. But isn't the creation of the Khalsa Panth by Dhan Dhan Guru Gobind Singh Jee Maharaaj amazing in and of itself? The fact that he gave us the wonderful gift of Amrit, enabling sparrows to fight hawks. Should we not focus on importance and effect of this event, rather than the exact details of what took place? I'm not saying we should stop the discussion, but rather we realize the significance, or lack thereof, of what is being discussed. It's always good to analyze things before believing them, but let's not get so caught up that we turn it into an argument. A thoughtful debate is a better thing to participate in, than say, a thread of personal attacks.. wouldn't you agree? So let's keep it real.

That being said, daas will continue the discussion..

I don't think anyone can definitely state that this story is false. Yes, we have all been told that there was a tent, and it happened in there. Now this account says it happened in front of the public. Let's think about this. Why can't we accept the possibility of this occurring? Why can't it have happened? We don't have to believe it, but we should certainly entertain the thought! What if it did happen? Apparently, most kathakaars and parcharaks don't use this version, but does anyone know what happened for a fact? Almost everyone obtains their information from another source. So perhaps one version got passed down more, and publicized more, and so thats what

the majority believes. Can't people be wrong? I'm not saying this story is true, I'm just saying, can't it be true? Only Guru Ji Himself knows, and those blessed souls who were present.

I really really hope that this isn't what some accused it to be, a fake sakhi made to impress people to take amrit. Usually it's amritdhaari sikhs who want others to take amrit, right? So why would an actual Sikh do something like this? I find it hard to believe.. but then again, you never know nowadays.

Isn't it possible that many people just didn't know about this document? The main thing that makes me doubt it personally is, as some people have stated, that this document is not present at it's alleged location. After reading this thread, I went and asked about it to a Bhai Sahib I know. All I said was, “I read this so-called writing of a spy from Aurangzeb who was present at the Vaisakhi 1699..” Surprisingly, the Singh already knew the story, because he mentioned “eyewitness account” and “Ajmer Singh.“ He told me he learned about it a long time ago. He also said he heard it in Bhai Pinderpal Singh Jee's katha. The Singh described to me how Bhai Pinderpal Singh Jee never stated anything during veechar unless he had researched it thoroughly. Maybe if daas ever gets the chance to contact him I'll ask. But I vaguely remember listening to the katha too.. and he did say it took place in a tent.

If Guru Ji did do it in a tent, does it make a big difference? He still did it, right? Certainly no one thinks he would mislead and deceive the sangat? He asked for heads, and the beloved Panj Piaarey went forward. Would he ask for heads and then trick everyone by slaughtering goats? Can anyone consider Guru Sahib killing innocent animals for no reason? Wouldn't the Panj feel dissapointed if they came up to sacrifice themselves and Guru Gobind Singh Jee Maharaaj declined?

I hope no one is questioning his ability to revive them, and give them new lives, because that is a different argument entirely. If anyone is not willing to believe that he did posses the powers necessary, then they're just a tad behind. Hopefully we agree he could, but I think some people don't think he would. As previous posters have mentioned, Guru Sahib did perform miracles to teach lessons, set examples, or make a point. Of course he never 'performed' them, for personal gain or selfish motives, or to change the will of Vaaheguroo. Guru Arjan Dev Sahib Jee could have easily had Jahangir on the burning plate in his place if he chose. Guru Nanak Dev Jee did many amazing things in all the well known Saakhia. Were those not miracles? In doing something like this, Dasam Patshah was not doing anything against his own principles. When he came out with blood dripping from his sword, was he trying to make the public believe he did something he didn't? The Guru's deeds and actions are miracles to the likes of us! I don't think anyone is saying Guru Sahib did it to prove he is real or to instill fear into people.

The article also says that Bhai Vir Singh mentions it in his writings. It would be helpful if someone could verify this? If this statement is found to be false it would mean that the author lied, and so the rest is probably invalid as well. I highly doubt this is a tactic of an antipanthic group, because it's actually glorifying the story, not saying something negative about it.

So what if this account didn't happen? That shouldn't in any way lessen the importance or value of the Amrit Sanchaar. Hopefully there isn't anybody who is just arguing and hasn't realized the whole point of it. Guru Jee gave us this amazing gift, this blessing, and we need to choose to receive it.

No need for the argument. God (the Gurus) did not write the story so need to argue if it is true or not. Whatever actually happened, the point is, Guru Ji, on that day, taught us that faith and commitment will bring us the ultimate reward. You cannot argue with that, as that is true faith, not the belief in miracles.

That really sums it up. The important thing for us to share the same fundamental belief, and act.

That's what matters. Follow in the footsteps of the Five Beloved Ones, by Joining the Order of the Khalsa, and becoming Sikhs of the Guru.

Forgive me for my mistakes, I am but a Moorakh.

Vaaheguroo Jee Kaa Khalsaa Vaaheguroo Jee Kee Fatehh..