Eye Witness Account

[jassa]

WAHEGURU JI KA KHALSA, WAHEGURU JI KI FATEH

This entire arguement is happening because Dancing Warrior says the story is false. Ok Dancing Warrior...prove it is false.

no need to prove its false because it is false

1. non granths ever talked or quoted about it

2. non mahapursh from taksal sant samaj budhdal akj talked about it though they do loads and loads of katha round the globe about the birth of khalsa .... no matter what ever sant from which ever samparda it belongs does the katha of khalsas birth on vesakhi every year ... and no quote about it ...

3. it is written by a so called muslim from whom guru sahib told never believe them no matter what ...

4. if such karamat is done and is known to aurengzeb he would have never ever fought with guru sahib ....

and people say its true

1. it is more inspirational then all other kathas about khalsas birth

and question if its true

1. there was gathering of 80000 .... if this karamat was performed and people saw it .... then why not all took amrit .... even pahari rajas would have took amrit .... non would have stood against him in any case ...

KHALSA HIMSELF IS A KARAMAT BIGGEST KARAMAT OF AKALPURKH .... and guru never ever needed to perform any karamat in front of people just to attract them to sikhi .... he wants quality not quantity ....

[Pakandi baba]

4. if such karamat is done and is known to aurengzeb he would have never ever fought with guru sahib ....

Are you a loon?! Do you not know the power of the Gurui!!

[palamrinder]

2. non mahapursh from taksal sant samaj budhdal akj talked about it though they do loads and loads of katha round the globe about the birth of khalsa .... no matter what ever sant from which ever samparda it belongs does the katha of khalsas birth on vesakhi every year ... and no quote about it ...

Veerji I did infact heard the reference of this muslim account of 1699 being preserved in aligarh univ. from a katha done by bhai pinderpal singhji. He is a very chardikala singh and lives in ludhiana. I dont remeber specifically which katha was it, but i do remember hearing it.

[muurakh (forgive me...)]

Vaheguroo ji ka khalsa Vaheguroo ji ki fateh.

IT'S A BIT LONG I APPOLOGISE IN ADVANCE I HOPE IT'S NOT A LOAD OF RUBBISH

for those of you who don't believe that guru ji took 5 heads and bought the panj piyare back to life why not ask a well recognised giani. I'm sure jassa would have the number for mehta (i think sodhi ji is there or are going there on the 18th so might still be in usa), in which case i would wait cos they will give you the answer straight up. Like we were doing santhia with them and a bhujungi singh asked them are sant jarnail singh ji bhindravale shaheed and sodhi ji gave a direct answer saying yes, they became shaheed in front of the flags of akal takht sahib. And i'm sure singhs on here know who sodhi ji is and know that they are on another level.

Also giani pritam singh ji (damdami taksal) now in southall would also give you a good answer which i hope you would be able to trust.

Giani takhur singh ji damdami taksal is another one and i'm sure you know others who are not from the taksal unfortunately i don't know any well enough to comment so i apologise and forgive me if anyone is offended.

and whatever answer is given by the aforementioned i hope you will be able to say satbachan and accept it.

From what very little budhi i have i would have to say;

• if 5 heads were not taken then only the amrit sanchar would've taken place and no such story would have occured and since there is a story there must be some truth.
  

• Also since the 'widely' believed version is that guru ji took 5 heads you would have to edge towards it as it was 'only' 300 odd years ago.
  

• and many of the battles the guru jis fought do not have accounts written about them but a lot is still known so there doesnt necessarily have to be a writen account of vaisakhi 1699.
  

• also 'apparently' guru ji said he would sacrifice his family when asked for his head. and after taking amrit he gave 5 heads - 4 sahibzaade and mata ji. Was that such a coincedence. Guru ji's mehl did not become shaheed at the hands of the mughals and that could've easily happened???
  

Anyway i hope you ask someone you believe to be of an adequate level of spirituality if you can find them and then, whatever the answer maybe, i hope you can accept it and tell everyone else that you asked so and so and the answer you were given was this and that is what you now believe.

But i reckon it comes down to faith, though i do not doubt yours. As it says in jap ji sahib about creation;

ਕਵਣੁ ਸੁ ਵੇਲਾ ਵਖਤੁ ਕਵਣੁ ਕਵਣ ਥਿਤਿ ਕਵਣੁ ਵਾਰੁ ॥

What was that time, and what was that moment? What was that day, and what was that date?

ਕਵਣਿ ਸਿ ਰੁਤੀ ਮਾਹੁ ਕਵਣੁ ਜਿਤੁ ਹੋਆ ਆਕਾਰੁ ॥

What was that season, and what was that month, when the Universe was created?

ਵੇਲ ਨ ਪਾਈਆ ਪੰਡਤੀ ਜਿ ਹੋਵੈ ਲੇਖੁ ਪੁਰਾਣੁ ॥

The Pandits, the religious scholars, cannot find that time, even if it is written in the Puraanas.

ਵਖਤੁ ਨ ਪਾਇਓ ਕਾਦੀਆ ਜਿ ਲਿਖਨਿ ਲੇਖੁ ਕੁਰਾਣੁ ॥

That time is not known to the Qazis, who study the Koran.

ਥਿਤਿ ਵਾਰੁ ਨਾ ਜੋਗੀ ਜਾਣੈ ਰੁਤਿ ਮਾਹੁ ਨਾ ਕੋਈ ॥

The day and the date are not known to the Yogis, nor is the month or the season.

ਜਾ ਕਰਤਾ ਸਿਰਠੀ ਕਉ ਸਾਜੇ ਆਪੇ ਜਾਣੈ ਸੋਈ ॥

The Creator who created this creation-only He Himself knows.

ਕਿਵ ਕਰਿ ਆਖਾ ਕਿਵ ਸਾਲਾਹੀ ਕਿਉ ਵਰਨੀ ਕਿਵ ਜਾਣਾ ॥

How can we speak of Him? How can we praise Him? How can we describe Him? How can we know Him?

ਨਾਨਕ ਆਖਣਿ ਸਭੁ ਕੋ ਆਖੈ ਇਕ ਦੂ ਇਕੁ ਸਿਆਣਾ ॥

O Nanak, everyone speaks of Him, each one wiser than the rest.

ਵਡਾ ਸਾਹਿਬੁ ਵਡੀ ਨਾਈ ਕੀਤਾ ਜਾ ਕਾ ਹੋਵੈ ॥

Great is the Master, Great is His Name. Whatever happens is according to His Will.

ਨਾਨਕ ਜੇ ਕੋ ਆਪੌ ਜਾਣੈ ਅਗੈ ਗਇਆ ਨ ਸੋਹੈ ॥੨੧॥

O Nanak, one who claims to know everything shall not be decorated in the world hereafter. ||21||

I do not aim any of this passage as a dig at you but it is only an example to try and validate my point of view.

Please, if i have offended anyone sangat bakhshan yog hai bakhash laina.

Vaheguroo ji ka khalsa Vaheguroo ji ki fateh.

[randip singh]

THE LAST REPORT: Eye witness account of Vaisakhi 1699 by Enemy spy!

There were many in Guru Gobind Singh Ji’s camp whose intentions altogether were not loyal, the all knowing Guru knew this. One of these spies of emperor Arangzeb was called Abu-ul-traifi. He is mentioned by the eminent scholar Bhai Vir Singh in his writings. Being a spy he kept a daily journal of the events that took place for the emperor.

Below is the translation for the accounts of vaisakhi day:

“On the day Guru Gobind Singh Ji prepared Amrit in Anandpur, the attendance in the diwan was about 50 to 70 thousand. The Mughals had four thrones (seats of imperial power), Delhi, Agra, Lahore and Kalanur. But the grandeur of Guru Ji’s throne was in a class by itself. The grandeur of this throne was out of this world.

Guru Ji came to the diwan and, unsheathing his sword, spoke in a thundering voice that he needed a head. No questions or hesitation at all, Bhai Daya Ram came forward to Guru Ji. Guru Ji right in front of all cut of his head from his body in one stroke. Every body present was stunned. Then Guru Ji again thundered and demanded one more head. Right on Guru’s call, Dharam Chand got up, came to Guru Ji, bowed his head and said here is my offering of my head. Guru Ji again, in one stroke cut off Bhai Dharam chands head from his body.

Now there was a big commotion in the diwan. But Guru ji in his thundering voice went on demanding heads, one after another. Himmat Rai, Mohkam Chand and Sahib Ram got up and offered their heads. Guru Ji cut off the heads of these three also. Many from the congregation went to Guru Ji’s mother and narrated the whole happening in the diwan to Mata Ji.

Guru Ji cleaned up the blood from the five bodies and heads, and even washed the floor, then the Guru of these infidels stitched one head with another body, one by one, this process took about three hours. Then he covered these dead bodies with white sheets.

The Guru of these infidels then took a cauldron made from stone and put an iron wok (bowl) without handles on top of it. He then poured water into the wok and started preparing “Amrit” (aab-e-hyat- elixir of life). The infidel Guru kept churning the water with his double-edged sword and kept on reciting his kalma (Gurbani). This process went on for 1.5 to 2 hours. During this time a lady came from Guru’s house and put something in that water. Now the Amrit was ready.

From the corpses he took the covering sheets off. First he sat on the head side of Daya Ram and poured Amrit into his mouth, then poured some into his head and then sprinkled some in his eyes, and then he asked the dead body to say waheguru ji ka khalsa waheguru ji ki fateh. As if on his Gurus command, Daya Ram got up and repeated in his bold voice, Waheguru ji ka khalsa, waheguru ji ki fateh.

It appeared that in the entire congregation everybody was so stunned that it seemed like no one was breathing. There was pin-drop silence. All the present wee mesmerized with their Guru’s miracle. In the same manner one after another the Guru made the other four alive too.

Then he took all five of them into a tent. After a while Guru Ji along with the five came out. The five were now wearing new attire (uniform, bana); those five risen from the dead were standing in a line. Then their Guru came in front of them and took bir rasan (posture of the brave-kneeling on one knee) and asked for Amrit. At this point, the five asked what are you offering to get this Amrit. The Guru said that “I will sacrifice my whole family for the sake of the panth” then these five gave Amrit to Guru Ji, and his name was changed to “Gobind Singh” (from Gobind Rai). The word Singh was attached with the other fives too, -Daya Singh, Dharam Singh, Himmat Singh, Mohkam Singh and Sahib Singh.

(I was very remorseful and cried like a baby) After that, thousands took Amrit. Even, I was attracted like a magnetic force and with utmost regret fell on Gurus feet. I requested to the Guru to give me Amrit too. Guru Ji already knew about my role as a spy and traitor, put his hand on my back, gave me Amrit and changed my name to Ajmer Singh. Just with this act, my sins of numerous lives got washed away. (Extract from the last report)

The whole report can be found in the archives of Aligarh University

My true guru has the power to kill and revive the dead-Ang 1142 Sri Guru Granth Sahib Ji

Who wrote this? Who was the eyewitness? What was his name? What is the name of the archive at Aligarh University?

I have read this before but is used by anti-Sikh forces to show the Guru's had the power of Shatan or the Devil........ironic that a Sikh is using it to show he had God like powers.

[randip singh]

This story is not true the actual university has no recollection of any such document being present in history. Contact them to verify yourselves. This is the truth no matter how many times my post is deleted.

I would be curious to find the source.....I find this kind of crap posted everywhere when I am researching and quotes of Aligarh University.

Has the power of Amrit become so weak that these "Sikhs" need miracles in order to show its powers.................the so called Sikh of today and just idiotic fools, who would have the Guru performing magic trciks, rather than understand the true miracle they achieved.............teaching the sparrow to challenge the hawk!!

[randip singh]

WAHEGURU JI KA KHALSA, WAHEGURU JI KI FATEH

This entire arguement is happening because Dancing Warrior says the story is false. Ok Dancing Warrior...prove it is false.

No actually it is for you to prove it is true:

• Who was the eyewitness?
  
• What is the full name of the account?
  
• Dates and Times of Account?
  
• What archive is this at Aligarh?
  
• Any professors authenticated the account?
  

[randip singh]

I think our Hindhu ancestors' blood runs too rich in us that we have to depend on stories of miracles and super-human strength to infuse within us the belief that we are somehow special in the eyes of God. We are not special because we believe in these miracles and therefore take amrit. We are special because we take amrit and release the 4 thieves from our lives. It's not complex.

Personally, I don't care if these miracles actually occurred, just that the stories prove a point.

It is clear to me that the stories, when retold, and because of the manner in, and purpose for which, they are told, are to suit the purposes of the tellers.

What I'm saying is look beyond the miralces and understand what we need to change within ourselves and let's aspire to the ideals.

Miracles won't change the world, only the actions of millions will.

Precisely......I don't care if people, goats, ostrich's or Russian Cossacks were beheaded.....

The point was :

1. When Guru Ji came out with his sword dripping with blood, may so callled "Sikhs" ran away in terror.
   
2. The only ones left were the bravest of the brave and the most faithfull.
   
3. The remaining 4 still got up to offer their heads to the Guru regardless of what had occured.
   
4. Guruji could see the coming storm and only wanted the bravest of the brave around him.
   
5. None of the Guru's used miracles to prove their points. Their deeds and actions were everything.
   

Also analyse this logicallly..............if the Guru's would not interfere with what God had ordained........

[Hardeep__singh]

I put in my 2 rupees and say he who created the khalsa only will know, the he who is Guru Gobind Singh Ji, the supreme power of the Guru should not be underestimated.

Why do we need have an eye witness to tell us things, we instead should Naam jaap etc and once you got to the highest stage (I wish) then ask the Guru himself.

[Guest Narinder Singh]

I've never heard this version of the story before, and one can question its authenticity, but as for Guru ji taking five heads, one cannot question that and still call themself a sikh. If your saying that Guru Sahib cut the heads of goats or whatever else, then youre saying that Guru Sahib lied to you and lied to the panth.

Our Gurus didnt perform miracles to instill fear into peoples hearts or to win them over by magic tricks (like so many babeh do today), they did so when there was a need.

As i stated in my earlier posts, if Guru Sahib was one with God and God is capable of anything, then that would make Guru Sahib capable of anything. When a drop of water falls into the ocean, can you see the difference between that drop and the ocean?

Fateh.